Originally Posted by cubman1941 (Post 2020518)

Apparently many people have reached out to the Shoeless Joe Jackson Museum regarding their article in the last newsletter. For those who do not get the newsletter I provide this response.

"Hello and welcome to Issue 004 of Shoeless Notes, the email newsletter for the Shoeless Joe Jackson Museum and Baseball Library in Greenville, South Carolina.
After reading the last newsletter about the B18 Blankets, a handful of people reached out, unsatisfied with the notion that those pieces were originally intended to be pen wipes when they were released in 1914. An argument being made is “if they were intended to be ink blotters, then many of the blankets which have survived all these years later should be stained.” While that is a logical initial thought, it isn’t necessarily true, for a number of reasons.
Firstly, if you ruined a piece of fabric with ink (whether it had been used for its intended purpose or not), would you have kept that used, dirty fabric? Most likely no, you would have thrown it away. It would be like finding a Kleenex package in 100 years, and saying “there’s no way these were intended to be used for people to blow their nose… all of the ones here in this package are completely clean!” That would be because the ones that were used for their intended purpose had been discarded.
Secondly, there are plenty of examples of B18s which have stains. Some stains are bigger than others. Some stains are darker than others. But very few B18 examples have survived in pristine condition 100+ years later. A quick eBay search shows many examples with stains of some kind and in varying sizes. Whether those stains were caused by ink from a pen is clearly up for debate.
In addition to the ones which have stains, there are many examples today which have been faded. Is the fading because they were subjected to sunlight? Maybe, though I’m not aware of many blankets or pillowcases that are faded from sun damage since blankets and pillowcases are primarily used indoors. Another possibility is that there was an attempt to clean an ink-stained B18 so it could be re-used, and the cleaning chemicals used to remove the ink also helped fade the print on the piece. That’s just a theory, obviously, but it seems entirely plausible to me.
Whatever the case, it is clear that age, alone, does not fade the print because there are hundreds of examples of B18s today which still have bold, dark images. I had always been under the impression that the B18s were intended to be sewn to create blankets or pillowcases or quilts ..., so the John Thorn “discovery” came as a shock to me, too. But just because this potentially new information turns our preconceived notions on their head, doesn’t mean it’s impossible for it to be true. There was a time when everyone alive was absolutely positive that the earth was flat, too.
There is a lesson to be learned from all of this, though. And that is a lesson that can be applied to any research, whether it’s about Joe Jackson, about baseball cards, or about anything else: trusting just one source, no matter how reliable that source may normally be, can be a dangerous thing. "

Originally Posted by rootsearcher60 (Post 2275899)

I found this ad showing that the B18s were advertised to be used for display, and to make pillow cases. They were referred to as blankets. What I find interesting is that they were given away with Sovereign Cigarettes. This ad is from the Virginia-Pilot and the Norfolk (VA) Landmark, 14 July, 1914.

Michael

Originally Posted by rootsearcher60 (Post 2275899)

I found this ad showing that the B18s were advertised to be used for display, and to make pillow cases. They were referred to as blankets. What I find interesting is that they were given away with Sovereign Cigarettes. This ad is from the Virginia-Pilot and the Norfolk (VA) Landmark, 14 July, 1914.

Michael

Originally Posted by brianp-beme (Post 2275917)

Nice ad. What everyone is missing, because it is printed impossibly small at the bottom of the ad, to the point of being invisible, is this:

*Originally intended as ink blotters


Brian

Originally Posted by rootsearcher60 (Post 2275899)

I found this ad showing that the B18s were advertised to be used for display, and to make pillow cases. They were referred to as blankets. What I find interesting is that they were given away with Sovereign Cigarettes. This ad is from the Virginia-Pilot and the Norfolk (VA) Landmark, 14 July, 1914.

Michael

Originally Posted by rootsearcher60 (Post 2275899)

I found this ad showing that the B18s were advertised to be used for display, and to make pillow cases. They were referred to as blankets. What I find interesting is that they were given away with Sovereign Cigarettes. This ad is from the Virginia-Pilot and the Norfolk (VA) Landmark, 14 July, 1914. Michael

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe (Post 2276260)

So were they a Sovereign or Egyptienne Staights premium? I thought they were believed to be packaged inside Egytienne cigarette packages all this time. Some of them even still have part of the seal attached to them that was used to package them with the tobacco. There must have been two ways to acquire them now.

Originally Posted by Hankphenom (Post 2276274)

I Hadn't heard that before about the Egyptiennes. Definitely Sovereign now, what's the evidence for Egyptiennes? I have seen the seals or parts of seals before, but don't remember if there's any clues there.

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe (Post 2276303)

Hi Hank,
I thought this was fairly common knowledge about the blankets. Here are several places where it is mentioned. I've never heard anyone doubt the Egytienne connection after 20+ years of collecting prewar. I don't know where the connection original came from but imagine there are ads that support it somewwhere.Edited to add: This is also mentioned earlier in this very thread from 2020.

Originally Posted by Hankphenom (Post 2276333)

It could well be that I don't remember seeing or reading about the source, as I said I thought the word was that the staining found on so many blankets was from being wrapped around chewing tobacco, and that was clearly wrong. Sovereign and Egyptienne were both American Tobacco Co. products, so that's a possible connection, and Egyptienne did put many different "rugs," silks, etc., in their boxes, the shape of which might also be a clue. It's just that I would want to see something other than hearsay or word of mouth before I'd be willing to say that B-18s were distributed anywhere other than in packs of Sovereign cigarettes, which we now have proof of.

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe (Post 2276303)

https://prewarcards.com/2018/11/27/b...ts-cigarettes/
https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...-b18-blankets/
https://oldcardboard.com/o/b/b18/b18.asp?cardsetID=1038 .

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe (Post 2276336)

Fair enough Hank. It's just been accepted for so long that they were Egytienne Straights premiums that I had to mention it. I'd also like to see more concrete evidence of it myself now.
.

Originally Posted by canjond (Post 2276771)

It seems pretty logical to me that based on the ad above, the B18s were NOT attached to Sovereign cigarette packs but were instead handed out by dealers at point of sale. Just look at the fine print at the bottom that instructs dealers to get a supply of the B18s. As others have mentioned, there are B18s with remnants of a blue band on them, so it seems most logical to me these were still adhered to a brand of cigarettes in addition to Sovereign, and Egyptienne Straights definitely seems most plausible given the Lipset article and the specificity around the packaging.

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports (Post 2277077)

what pure bullshit. suck it up and admit John jumped the gun. Experts in THE FIELD OF S/F/B tried to give JOHN THE BASEBALL HISTORIAN some pointed advice regarding his pure SUPPOSITION based on a contemporary reporting by a single person. Awwww. He found a B18 with an ink stain!!!!! Stop the presses. Really sad......

I guess it was OK the original person said "cigar" box when it's a "cigarette" package. Pick the elements you think support the pen wipe hypothesis for me again? All three suggestions were ridiculous.

"he learned something that possibly less than 10 people currently living knew. He learned what the 1914 B18 Blankets were originally intended to be."

WAIT. He now knows something that only he knows as the other guy is dead. Works for me.

Can't believe how out of shape this has gotten me. Too much caffine?

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports (Post 2277077)

what pure bullshit. suck it up and admit John jumped the gun. Experts in THE FIELD OF S/F/B tried to give JOHN THE BASEBALL HISTORIAN some pointed advice regarding his pure SUPPOSITION based on a contemporary reporting by a single person. Awwww. He found a B18 with an ink stain!!!!! Stop the presses. Really sad......

I guess it was OK the original person said "cigar" box when it's a "cigarette" package. Pick the elements you think support the pen wipe hypothesis for me again? All three suggestions were ridiculous.

"he learned something that possibly less than 10 people currently living knew. He learned what the 1914 B18 Blankets were originally intended to be."

WAIT. He now knows something that only he knows as the other guy is dead. Works for me.

Can't believe how out of shape this has gotten me. Too much caffine?

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports (Post 2277077)

what pure bullshit. suck it up and admit John jumped the gun. Experts in THE FIELD OF S/F/B tried to give JOHN THE BASEBALL HISTORIAN some pointed advice regarding his pure SUPPOSITION based on a contemporary reporting by a single person. Awwww. He found a B18 with an ink stain!!!!! Stop the presses. Really sad......

I guess it was OK the original person said "cigar" box when it's a "cigarette" package. Pick the elements you think support the pen wipe hypothesis for me again? All three suggestions were ridiculous.

"he learned something that possibly less than 10 people currently living knew. He learned what the 1914 B18 Blankets were originally intended to be."

WAIT. He now knows something that only he knows as the other guy is dead. Works for me.

Can't believe how out of shape this has gotten me. Too much caffine?

Originally Posted by Hankphenom (Post 2276231)

Great find! I, too, never bought into the ink blotter theory, thinking why would you make such beautiful things just to wipe your ink off with? But with the picture of the Sovereign packs they came, now I'm wondering about the long-held theory that the staining typically found on them came from being wrapped around chewing tobacco? One would assume they would have been packed outside the wrapping between the box and the cigarettes, according to the picture, and therefore not exposed to any of the tobacco. They were definitely folded in quarters whatever the packing method. As for display, I don't know if anyone connected with the project had this in mind at the time, and it could be just the nine Washington B-18s that lend themselves to it so perfectly, but when I got my collection of the eight beautiful commons in a David Festberg auction several decades ago and laid them out with my mint Wajo, this arrangement, with every player on this special team in D.C. baseball history in their proper position, flashed into my brain almost immediately.

Originally Posted by ValKehl (Post 2277601)

Hank, your framed rendition of the Washington-player B18s is a gorgeous piece. I am aware that you parted ways with much/most of your collection some years ago, but I hope you retained this lovely piece.

Originally Posted by Hankphenom (Post 2277625)

Thanks, Val. Since Alan Feinberg framed it like this some 25 years ago, it's been at or near the top of my list of favorite pieces. Great team, great issue, so many special features to them both, and as you put it, just gorgeous to look at. I have sold a lot over the years, as you know, but have kept a number of my favorites, some of which made the move with me to Winchester. These pictures (starting at post #771) are slightly dated, but not much, and don't include my D.C./WaJo vintage pin collections, but do show most of the things I haven't been able to bring myself to part with over the years.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...131800&page=16

Originally Posted by yanks87 (Post 2278591)

I’ve been following the discussion about B18 felts and who may have distributed them. The recent post showing felts as a give-away with Sovereign cigarettes indicates that tobacco sellers in Norfolk, Virginia can pick up felts to be given away with the purchase of Sovereign cigarettes is indicated in the lower part of the ad.
Some folks then wondered if the attribution of them being given away with Egyptienne Straights was incorrect or needed a better provenance. Attached is a picture of a sticker on the back of a felt with the Factory number of 2153, Third District, State of New York (central Manhattan Island). Also pictured is an ongoing auction for an ‘early’ box of Egyptienne Straights, and on the back of the box is the remainder of a tax stamp and the attribution to Factory number 2153, Second District, State of New York (Lower Manhattan Island). So, it would appear that the felts (folded to quarter size) were attached to the square Egyptienne Straights box as stated on several posts and information articles, which probably represents the bulk of the felts that were given away. The recently discovered ad for Sovereign cigarettes felts to be given away by Norfolk tobacco shops appears to be another source of the felts. Whether there were other locations where felts were made available to tobacco dealers selling American Tobacco Company cigarettes remains to be another quest(ion).

Originally Posted by yanks87 (Post 2278592)

Going further down the rabbit-hole, from: Cigarette silks, cigar flannels and ribbons in quilts - Antique Quilt History, there was a discussion about tobacco ‘flannels’ – author indicated that the material was flannel, not felt. From the article:
“Another popular textile insert or premium was the tobacco flannel. These were made of a cotton flannel fabric and printed in many designs, again in themes similar to the themes used on the cigarette cards. Popular subjects were flags of all the different countries of the world and athletes participating in various sports.
As with the silks these flannels were distributed in or on, cigarette and tobacco products, with the larger flannels available in the premium catalogs, and sent to consumers in exchange for coupons, (which were also distributed in tobacco packaging.)
Tobacco flannels are sometimes referred to as “cigar felts”, and this is probably a misnomer, because it is not clear how, or if, they are associated with cigars. The inference is that the flannels were inserted into the boxes of cigars. But according to cigar box collector and historian Tony Hymen, there is no reason that they should be called “cigar felts”.
One might also question why they are called felts when they are obviously made from flannel. One advertisement does mention a “felt”, but the photo in the ad shows what appears to be the small rug, which is usually made up of a velveteen type pile or made of flannel. Perhaps this is a simple example of a word’s popular meaning changing over a century of years.
Another tobacco insert or premium is the small rug or carpet, which is sometimes confused with the flannels. J. R. Burdick in his book The American Card Catalog, catalogs the flannels and rugs separately, noting that the rug has a fringe and the flannel does not.

Rugs were distributed in the same way as the flannels, in or on cigarette or tobacco packaging. One advertisement for Egyptienne Straights cigarettes states that the consumer will receive one rug in each package, plus a free rug from the tobacco shop dealer, “to induce you to try these wonderfully good cigarettes”. The dealer was instructed to apply to the manufacturer for the supply of free rugs so they would have them on hand, in the shop, enabling them to participate in the promotion.”
The above section (in bold) is the same approach that was shown in the Sovereign ad for baseball felts (flannels). So, it would appear that whether it was a baseball felt or a rug, supplying free flannels or rugs to tobacco dealers was a standard practice within the American Tobacco Company.
Even further down the rabbit hole – the article displayed the back of a rug which has a stamp for Egyptienne Straights showing the Factory number 2153, and the 3rd District of New York.

All similar to the baseball tobacco felts mentioned earlier in this post.