Correct. So on a sale that is $100 for the sale price plus shipping, to a state with 5.82% sales tax, the equation with Ebay FVF plus Paypal on the left and eBay Managed Payments on the right would be:

$100(0.10) + [($100 + $100(0.0582)]0.029+0.30 = [$100 + $100(0.0582)].1235+0.30

=$13.37

This assumes that the seller does not have an eBay store, or just has the lowest level of eBay store subscription ("starter" I think it is called). For those with "basic" level eBay store and higher, the FVF is dropped to 11.5% for most categories, making that "break even" sales tax rate 16.27% which is higher than any state's tax rate that I am aware of. So in other words, if you have an eBay store subscription, your fees will actually be lower under Managed Payments regardless of which state you are selling into.

You can pay for purchases by every method currently available to buyers, including paying via Paypal, plus a couple that aren't currently available with Paypal. You just can't pay for purchases from your Managed Payments account itself.

Thanks!

If you link your paypal account to your managed payments account, you effectively can. No?

Unfortunately no. The funds have to go out of Managed Payments to somewhere else before they can be used for purchases, and currently does not allow for direct deposit from Managed Payments into a Paypal account. There has been some chatter about Paypal setting something up where each Paypal account would be provided and account number and routing number so that it appeared to be a checking account such as is required to deposit Managed Payment funds into. Supposedly something is coming in June, before the massive push to Managed Payments comes in July, but I have not seen that option materialize as yet. Even that though, while it would help give some flexibility in using the funds, users would still have the same 2-3 day lag from when the funds leave Managed Payments until they are available to use for further purchases.

Don't get me wrong: nobody is losing their money or having it locked up for an indefinite amount of time. And buyers will actually have more options for payment methods under Managed Payments than they do currently. There just won't be that instant availability of funds that can be re-used for further purchases that sellers currently enjoy with Paypal.

The big plus has always been not necessarily instant access to my funds after a sale but the ability to accumulate the funds for a larger future purchase.

You can still do that, you just won't be able to fund the purchase from your MP account. You could do a daily dump into your bank account and accumulate funds there though. Just with some lag in availability of the funds that Paypal users do not experience today.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think this is the end of the world, and I was not one of the ones who checked the "I'm outta here" vote at the top of the page. It just introduces some extra steps and delays in moving funds from eBay sales around that are not there today for Paypal users.

eBay
 

For the 16 people who voted "No, I will be done with eBay", I would like to check back in a couple of months and see if you really are done. Are you really going to quit selling over this or are you just being obstinate? :) I know that I enjoy being cranky and grouchy sometimes, and it can be fun.

Contrary to popular belief, there ARE other venues to sell your wares. I have sold a few things under the Net54 auction thread, even though it doesn't get the eyeballs Ebay does. Sterling would love to help you out. So would "Love of the Game".

Scott
 

Scott, I have to agree with you. I was bidding on 12 auctions in your June 15th auction and watching another dozen or so. I only won 4 items, and I was very surprised at the high prices that many of your items received. I know that if I were selling these items myself on eBay I wouldn't have come close to the prices that you received.

Rick

I'm sure Scott would love to help out as well. But I believe he only deals in non sports

Paypal already has direct deposit, I have an account and routing number. I had my Stimulus direct deposited into my Paypal. I heard DD is only available if you have the Paypal Cash Debit Card but I don't know if thats true.

No real choice Bobby if you want to sell on eBay. All sellers eventually will have to be on managed payments.

Jeff

Not true...Scott's main auction business is Sports related.

Jeff

Well that is encouraging news, and something that I need to look into further. That would certainly help take out some of the lag in being able to re-use the funds. My understanding was that was something that was in the works, but hadn't been enabled yet. Thank you for the tip!

I'm not an accountant but:

Basic store level final value fees right now are 9.15% + the 2.9% Paypal, and I'm seeing the swing in the other direction at maybe just above 6% sales tax.

I know the most populous states and most frequent shipments are to higher tax states.

This also doesn't take into account what has been mentioned already, Ebay is taking their piece before depositing it into our account, so we can't get points back from our cards when we pay the bill. I know this is fairly inconsequential, but it makes the statement "There's no math you can use in which you aren't saving money under this new program", fairly inaccurate.

......and anybody who doesn't think Ebay already crunched the numbers in their favor before unrolling this system, is being incredibly naive.

I know I may be pinching pennies, and in the end, it may only be a few bucks more a month, but I'm constantly being disappointed by Ebay and their decisions. I can't help thinking this is just a first step down a much bigger rabbit hole.

They are constantly inching up their bottom line, while their scumbag, terroristic former CEO just took a $57 million golden parachute.

All that being said, I reserve the right to complain about Ebay, but I'm certainly not going to stop selling there. Doesn't mean I have to buy the whole "It's their playground, just shut up and sell, or leave if you don't like it" mentality.

They've shown their true colors as a company, as evidenced by the other thread on this site. So I'm going to continue using them, as long as they continue to "use" me. It's just business, I guess.


:D

Don’t think you quite understand float, Eric.

Dave...I agree with everything that you are saying but I stand by my comment...it is their playground and until there is a legitimate alternative we have to play by their rules...no matter how much you complain about them.

Jeff

Nicely explained, thanks!

I spent an hour at BofA yesterday opening up a new bank account for the eBay managed funds program. I don't want to commingle my real-life banking activity with what I do on eBay. So what options could BofA offer this 30 year customer? A bs monthly fee or a required daily balance of at least $1500 to avoid any fees. Ugh!

Lance or others, let us know what you find out about using PayPal like a bank to deposit eBay funds into. Is it active, are there associated fees or minimums, etc?

Jeff

So from what I have been able to find this morning, what James said is correct. If you have a Paypal Cash or Paypal Cash Plus debit card, there is an account and routing number associated with that which should show on your account page in Paypal that lists any credit cards or bank accounts you have associated with your Paypal account.

The down side (for me at least) is that you can only get the Paypal Cash Debit Card if you have a Personal Paypal account. If you have a Paypal Business account, the Paypal Cash Debit Card is not available. There is a Paypal Debit Mastercard you can get, which similarly lets you pay with a card drawn on your stored Paypal funds, but I have not found yet whether/where an account and routing number is provided for that card which would enable direct deposit for Paypal Business users.

It seems counter-intuitive to provide fewer features for the Business account than the Personal one, but my advice if you are setting this up would be to start with the Personal account for Paypal and add the optional debit card (which has no fees for most purposes, unless you're using it for cash withdrawals at an ATM or bank), and setting up Managed Payments to dump to your Paypal account should be relatively easy to accomplish from that point. I'm currently waiting for a response from Paypal Help for how those with Business accounts should proceed (the automated system did point me to the answers for Personal account users, but had no answers for my particular circumstance). Failing that, I guess I'll be looking into what it takes to downgrade to a Personal account, though if I recall correctly, that in turn would cause issues for anyone having Working Capital loans through Paypal.

Thanks Lance. I have a personal PayPal account. It took less than a minute to activate PayPal direct deposit. Apparently I will not be able to change my eBay managed account direct deposit election until they activate me on their program.

Jeff

You would be surprised at what I know about float income.

Just do the math on a hypothetical $1,000 sale. eBay gets somewhere around $120 in fees. How much additional do they get for the float for a few days? There is no way possible that anyone could calculate float income of even 12 cents on this example which is less than 1/1000th of the final value fees.

Float Income is way overrated.

I don't think that is legal!?
 

Sales tax is "collected" for the benefit of the taxing authority, not "charged" like a fee. Where did you see that they were going to do this?

Ebay will be "collecting" the sales tax for you, and then charging an 11.5% vig for the privilege of doing that for you.

Paypal charges 2.9% for the processing fee of collecting the Sales Tax right now.

Ebay has figured out a way to wrap the sales tax into the "Total Sale" (Price of item, Price of shipping, Price of Sales Tax), called it "simplifying the process", and charging a flat fee for everything, all inclusive.

It was bad enough when Ebay started charging us a final value fee on the shipping, when Paypal was the one doing the actual payment processing.

This is just an insult, and I doubt there's any other E-Commerce platform that figured out how to make such a windfall on Sales Tax, since the Supreme Court ruled on expanding on-line Sales Tax collection.

Anybody in managed payments know what Ebay's transactional fee is for receiving International Payments. I know Paypal's is 4.4%.

Ebay seems to not want to tell you, until you are actually in the program, so I can't find anything online.

I have quite a few overseas customers, even with the Postal Rates skyrocketing the last few years.

:confused:

I kind of like it. I do this thru Amazon for years. To me much simpler than Paypal.

I decided to see what the new eBay fees would really cost me using an actual sale I had and the details eBay released on the new fee structure. Here is information I pulled directly from eBay’s communique on the new structure:

“We charge one final value fee when your item sells, and you don't have to worry about third-party payment processing fees. This fee is calculated as a percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus $0.30 per order. The total amount of the sale is the entire amount the buyer pays, including any handling charges, the shipping service the buyer selects, sales tax, and any other applicable fees.”

Final Value Fees

11.5% on total amount of the sale up to $2,500

2.35% on the portion of the sale over $2,500



Buy It Now Fee

$0.99-$9.99 $0.05

$10-$24.99 $0.10

$25-$49.99 $0.20

$50 or more $0.25



Background: I have the least expensive store ($4.95 a month). Provides me with 100 free listings a month. That will continue, so my base listing fee is a wash. I am a top rated seller so I do not absorb the penalty % that sellers not rated “above standard” or better get hit with, but I refuse to allow 1 day turnaround and 30 day returns so I do not get the top seller discount (10% of the FVF, aka 1% of the total) so that is a wash also.



Example: I listed a card for auction with a $300 BIN that sold for the BIN. Buyer paid $5 shipping and sales tax on the whole amount ($25.16) for a buyer out of pocket total cost ("OOP") of $330.16.

The costs to me with the old fee structure and PayPal:

Listing fee $0.00

BIN fee $0.00

Final Value Fee on card $30.00

Final Value Fee on shipping $0.50

Final Value Fee on sales tax: $0.00

PayPal Fee $9.87

Total Fees $40.37

My Net: $259.63


I took the above figures directly from my eBay invoice and my PayPal invoice, so there are no calculation errors. They are actual hard costs I paid.


Now the same sale under the new fee structure with integrated payments:



Listing fee $0.00

BIN fee $0.25

Combined Final Value Fee $38.27 (11.5% of the OOP $330.16 plus $0.30)

Total fees $38.52

My Net: $261.49



The hard numbers prove that by making this switch to integrated payments eBay lowered my costs. As far as I am concerned, that ends the debate over whether the switch is good or bad, though I have to believe that once eBay finishes off PayPal it will jack up the fees and f*** it all up somehow.

Adam, double-check the info on eBay's page regarding the new fees for Stores sellers. The reduced 11.5% fee rate only applies to Basic stores and above (i.e. Basic, Premium, Anchor, and Enterprise). Starter stores (the lowest tier which costs $4.95/month with a subscription) are charged the same 12.35% fee rate as those without a store subscription.

With a store, Basic level and up:
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/se...e-fees?id=4809

With a Starter store or without a store:
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/se...e-fees?id=4822

Dave, the links I posted above with the fee structures taking effect in July indicate there is an international fee of 1.65% assessed (on top of the 11.5% or 12.35% fee) if the buyer's registered address is outside of the U.S. It does not appear to matter if the delivery address is domestic (i.e. if they are using a re-shipper or having delivered to a friend), as it is based on their registered address, not the delivery address. That would make this portion of the fee slightly higher than Paypal's 1.5% international fee tacked onto the base rate, though if you're seeing a slight benefit under Managed Payments otherwise, the slight 0.15% increase may be offset.

Related to this, there is a "currency conversion charge" which, upon re-reading that portion, would appear to apply only "when you list on an eBay site with a listing currency different to your payout currency." I had previously thought this applied when the buyer funded their purchase with a different currency than you used, but in re-reading it, this would appear to only apply where, for instance, me being based in the United States, if I were to list on the eBay UK site and make a sale, eBay Managed Payments would charge me a fee to convert those British Pounds to U.S. Dollars for my payout. The currency conversion charge would not appear to apply if a buyer in the UK logged onto the U.S. eBay.com site and made a purchase. I would keep an eye on this once the new fees go into effect though, as it would not surprise me if eBay showed U.S. sellers' listings to users logged into international eBay sites (without them actively seeking to list on those sites), and wound up charging the currency conversion percentage to the U.S. seller on the back-end. If they do charge it, the "currency conversion charge" is stated as being "3% applied on a base exchange rate. The base exchange rate is based on rates within the wholesale currency markets on the conversion day or the prior business day."

Yup, it's a slight uptick.

Same with basic store owners. Right now I'm paying a 9.15% in final value fees (not 10%). Running those same numbers this transaction will cost me a little bit more then it used to.

Ebay has run their numbers. It's like a casino. In the end, it's always in their favor. Except Ebay doesn't stay settled on the same percentage skim, and then just work to increase their volume.

The percentages are always going up, from year to year to year, in some way shape or form.

That's not inflation.....that's just taking a bigger piece of the pie.

Thanks Lance.

Can you post how a current store pays more in the new system? I’ve looked at this many ways to determine and it looks like a lower cost at every level.

Running Adam's example in post #78, his $300 BIN at 9.15% I came up with $37.78 in total fees including Ebay and Paypal

His managed payments calculation came up with $38.52 in total fees, with the 11.5% vig. That's not taking into account, Adam's actually going to fall into the 12.35% category as Lance mentioned above, but not relevant to this example.

Granted it's not a huge difference, but it is what it is, and it will add up.

That also doesn't take into account, about 56 cents in savings on the Ebay bill portion of that transaction, by paying with a secondary source at the end of the month, instead of Ebay taking their cut directly out of the initial transaction, as they have indicated they are going to begin to start doing.

Again, not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things, but Ebay has never made me feel real good about anything they've done in the last 15 years, so why start now.

:D

It's almost like switching your cell phone plan. Or your cable plan. They NEVER have your best interests at heart. It is ALWAYS what can net them the most cash.

Shit, you're right, guys. The extra 0.85% adds $2.81 to a $330 sale. eBay's great magnificence ends up costing me more than current costs.

Fuckin' eBay...they have us over a barrel and they know it.

Poll ends soon.

To follow up on my previous post, I was advised this morning in a message exchange with Paypal personnel that they are "working on getting a direct deposit set up for the business accounts as well but is something still only on the personal account. I know this is not ideal but we are working on making it more convenient."

So it seems that is in the works to facilitate direct deposit to Paypal Business accounts such as the one that I have. They also followed up with another option that I may have to look into if this is not available for business accounts by the time Managed Payments is mandated for me:

"I understand that you are needing a bank account and routing number for payments to go to. We are actively working to get that feature rolled out soon. You can contact the PayPal PrePaid department and order one of their cards. They have direct deposit accounts and can be linked to the PayPal Account as well."

You can visit www.paypal.com/prepaid

So apparently you can also get a Paypal prepaid debit card, which I understand likewise has an account number and routing number associated with it, and dump your Managed Payments funds to that rather than a bank account. I haven't gone this route yet, so I don't know how fluid it is to transfer that to your primary Paypal account, but maybe that doesn't matter for most users? Anyway, just letting folks know of another option that exists before the big MP shove in a few weeks.