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-   -   Ebay seller returned cracked out slab (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=275554)

BabyRuth 11-07-2019 02:56 PM
This sounds like a crime has been committed. I would definitely contact my local police and file a report to get a documentation path started. I feel very bad for you, as you did nothing wrong here. So sad that some people are dishonest and would even think of doing something like this. Good thing he lost out on the Ruth you sold by 1 bid, or you would have another similar problem. I hope proper restitution is made to you.

Peter_Spaeth 11-07-2019 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolifedave (Post 1929252)
The buyer gave the card to PSA and they returned it unslabbed.
Did YOU previously review it, and if not why not?

toolifedave 11-07-2019 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishdenny (Post 1929247)
The Moment He Cracked the Card form it's GAI Slab, He Owned the Card!
He Told PSA So when he Sent it to them Out of the Slab and w/o Your Permission as the 3rd party.
He then Lied to You and Ebay by Not Telling He Removed the Card From it's Sealed Package and He did this in order to get Ebay's Aid!

From PSA's Submission Form:

12. If any cards are being submitted for a third
party, Customer represents and warrants that
such third party has agreed and accepted this
Agreement and has signed a duplicate copy
hereof where indicated. Customer agrees to provide that third party-signed copy to PSA at anytime upon its request.

He Could of just left it in the Slab when he Sent it to PSA as a "Review",
i do imagine that the Buyer wanted to See What PSA thoughts were with the Card Out of the GAI Holder... Only because The Buyer Assumed that Every TPG had Seen the Card in it's GAI Slab Already!

Please tell us who "The Cracker" is?
I wouldn't want him to do this to another!

This is Just Wrong in So Many Ways...
Denny,

Thank you and I think you get it very clearly.

toolifedave 11-07-2019 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1929255)
Did YOU previously review it, and if not why not?
I didn't have it reviewed by PSA

Peter_Spaeth 11-07-2019 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolifedave (Post 1929257)
I didn't have it reviewed by PSA
Why not given how much more it would have been worth in a PSA or SGC slab?

1952boyntoncollector 11-07-2019 03:15 PM
What card was it?

We already had posters here say if damages arent worth more than 10,000..nobody would file a lawsuit...now people suggest to file a lawsuit on a 5,000 issue?

The person that bought the card could of always had PSA review it without breaking out the card

Sean 11-07-2019 03:32 PM
Double post

Sean 11-07-2019 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1929147)
Assuming you have the same card back and can sell it again
The OP sold an altered card. Now, assuming he got the same card back, he hasn't lost anything. The GAI holder was incorrect, the card should not have gotten a numeric grade.

It sounds like the OP bought a card that turned out to be altered, and now he wanted to pass the loss on to the next buyer.

jhs5120 11-07-2019 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean (Post 1929273)
The OP sold an altered card. Now, assuming he got the same card back, he hasn't lost anything. The GAI holder was incorrect, the card should not have gotten a numeric grade.

It sounds like the OP bought a card that turned out to be altered, and now he wanted to pass the loss in to the next buyer.
The buyer returned the card cracked out of the previous holder

Sean 11-07-2019 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhs5120 (Post 1929274)
The buyer returned the card cracked out of the previous holder
A GAI holder that gave a numeric grade to an altered card.

Rhotchkiss 11-07-2019 03:48 PM
Can you please disclose the name of the buyer?

I feel the moment the buyer cracked it out of the GAI case, he altered (no pun intended) the item and thus should not be allowed to return it; at least the seller should not be forced to take the card back and give a refund.

That’s what I think. What I know is you are screwed, which sucks. Yet another reason why I don’t use eBay anymore.

toolifedave 11-07-2019 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1929214)
There is a difference, at least where I live, in police investigating something or taking a report of it. A report doesn't mean they are doing anything but taking a report to get it on record. They don't have to investigate a report if you tell them you don't need that. Yesterday, I had a Collin County Deputy come to my house to fill out an internet fraud, police report/incident report. They aren't going to investigate it and it's ok. Bank of America (my bank) told me I need to report it for the record. So I did. I spoke a good bit with the deputy about it. He was very accommodating. We love our local law enforcement. I just need a report filed, I told him. He said no problem. I can't imagine the local authorities telling the op he can't even file a report? It is good to file a report regardless. Haven't you ever watched Judge Judy? She is my hero and my write in vote for next president (not getting political, it's a joke).
I will try to go to a different police station where i live and see if I can at least as you said get a report for the record.

1952boyntoncollector 11-07-2019 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean (Post 1929276)
A GAI holder that gave a numeric grade to an altered card.
So if this is done on the 250k Namath card that was graded by PSA and it was cracked out and submitted to SGC and they said its authentic but altered. The buyers can return the card as well because after all the card was in a PSA holder that was given a numeric grade to an altered card?

JeremyW 11-07-2019 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 1929278)
Can you please disclose the name of the buyer?

I feel the moment the buyer cracked it out of the GAI case, he altered (no pun intended) the item and thus should not be allowed to return it; at least the seller should not be forced to take the card back and give a refund.

That’s what I think. What I know is you are screwed, which sucks. Yet another reason why I don’t use eBay anymore.
This seems pretty obvious to me.

tlhss 11-07-2019 04:29 PM
Sales ad description?
 
Could you post the original description of the card you used in your sales ad on eBay?

Peter_Spaeth 11-07-2019 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolifedave (Post 1929257)
I didn't have it reviewed by PSA
Because?

JeremyW 11-07-2019 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlhss (Post 1929287)
Could you post the original description of the card you used in your sales ad on eBay?
Post #30

perezfan 11-07-2019 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 1929280)
So if this is done on the 250k Namath card that was graded by PSA and it was cracked out and submitted to SGC and they said its authentic but altered. The buyers can return the card as well because after all the card was in a PSA holder that was given a numeric grade to an altered card?
Unless there was a different $250K Namath Card... Wasn't that card sold by Heritage (after it somehow jumped from a 7 to a 9?) How would eBay policies apply to that card? Unless you are asking if it was hypothetically re-listed on eBay after the Heritage sale, who would then be liable...

Wasn't the advent of TPG grading supposed to clear up these things, and clean up this hobby?

Peter_Spaeth 11-07-2019 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan (Post 1929312)
Unless there was a different $250K Namath Card... Wasn't that card sold by Heritage (after it somehow jumped from a 7 to a 9?) How would eBay policies apply to that card? Unless you are asking if it was hypothetically re-listed on eBay after the Heritage sale, who would then be liable...

Wasn't the advent of TPG grading supposed to clear up these things, and clean up this hobby?
For a while it did I think, sort of. It did hurt some of the more egregious SCD ad trimmers.

DeanH3 11-07-2019 06:20 PM
Early GAI cards can be argued that they have generous grades, just like many early PSA grades. But I'd be surprised if Baker missed an alteration on a card of this magnitude. Possible? Sure.

I don't agree that a buyer should be able to "gamble" on someone else's dime. Once the card is broken out, it's now the property of the buyer, period. JMHO.

mq711 11-07-2019 06:52 PM
I see both sides to this issue, buyer paid good money for a certain condition/unaltered card which upon further review he/she did not receive; everyone is always saying buy the card and not the slab. When it returned altered thus it wasn’t as advertised and a refund is proper. Now if the buyer changed out the card that is a different story and a criminal act otherwise not so.

Peter_Spaeth 11-07-2019 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mq711 (Post 1929325)
I see both sides to this issue, buyer paid good money for a certain condition/unaltered card which upon further review he/she did not receive; everyone is always saying buy the card and not the slab. When it returned altered thus it wasn’t as advertised and a refund is proper. Now if the buyer changed out the card that is a different story and a criminal act otherwise not so.
I think the question comes down to this. If I sell a card in a GAI slab, and don't say anything about it, am I implicitly warranting the card is unaltered? Or is the buyer taking the risk that it's altered, knowing it's in an inferior holder?

CobbSpikedMe 11-07-2019 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin (Post 1929194)
I was thinking the same thing. :confused:
Me too. I thought PSAs turnaround times were way long and to have this buyer get the card back from them within a week with an opinion of Authentic sounds pretty fishy to me. Sounds like he switched the card and returned a different card and kept the high dollar one.

Peter_Spaeth 11-07-2019 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe (Post 1929329)
Me too. I thought PSAs turnaround times were way long and to have this buyer get the card back from them within a week with an opinion of Authentic sounds pretty fishy to me. Sounds like he switched the card and returned a different card and kept the high dollar one.
Cards worth this much have to be submitted at a high dollar, quick turnaround level. Plus he returned the card with the PSA rejection sticker, no?

111gecko 11-07-2019 07:12 PM
You crack it, you own it..period. This is BS.

Goudey77 11-07-2019 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 111gecko (Post 1929331)
You crack it, you own it..period. This is BS.
Bottom line. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

CobbSpikedMe 11-07-2019 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1929330)
Cards worth this much have to be submitted at a high dollar, quick turnaround level. Plus he returned the card with the PSA rejection sticker, no?
But getting it back inside a week? That's still pretty quick no?

If he included a PSA rejection sticker then I missed that above.

Peter_Spaeth 11-07-2019 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe (Post 1929336)
But getting it back inside a week? That's still pretty quick no?

If he included a PSA rejection sticker then I missed that above.
I thought he said it was returned in a PSA sleeve which implied to me it had the rejection sticker, but I could have misunderstood, the posts are not a model of clarity.

Rhotchkiss 11-07-2019 08:07 PM
Name and/or eBay handle of the buyer, please

todeen 11-07-2019 08:14 PM
Who do you bank with? I think i would alert my bank that this is a fraud case. Because I imagine the money has moved out of PayPal and ebay is going to have to get the money from you. If you don't pay, and ebay tries to claim money that you have ID'd as fraudulent, that might push this into legal action where the bank might help represent you.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

bigfanNY 11-07-2019 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1929326)
I think the question comes down to this. If I sell a card in a GAI slab, and don't say anything about it, am I implicitly warranting the card is unaltered? Or is the buyer taking the risk that it's altered, knowing it's in an inferior holder?
I looked at the original ebay post and the seller clearly says " sharp corners" " Near mint condition"
Saying that is very VERY different than sayin GAI has graded it near mint. Seller sold this card as near mint and it came back as altered. So in the case out of the case he has no case.

Buythatcard 11-07-2019 09:04 PM
Why does the OP refuse to disclose the name of this Buyer? He has been asked several times.:confused:

We can block this buyer so that we don't have it happen to us.

steve B 11-07-2019 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric72 (Post 1929187)
He received the card, gave it to PSA, got the card back from PSA, and retuned it within one week after buying it from you?
Yeah, that timeline makes absolutely no sense at all.

I'm thinking it's a smooth swap of an auth card for a graded one and PSA wasn't involved at all.

toolifedave 11-07-2019 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY (Post 1929343)
I looked at the original ebay post and the seller clearly says " sharp corners" " Near mint condition"
Saying that is very VERY different than sayin GAI has graded it near mint. Seller sold this card as near mint and it came back as altered. So in the case out of the case he has no case.
I have not given the buyer’s name since it is my understand to use this site I have be careful what I post. The ebay original ad has been posted by someone else and includes the winners details.

Peter_Spaeth 11-07-2019 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B (Post 1929354)
Yeah, that timeline makes absolutely no sense at all.

I'm thinking it's a smooth swap of an auth card for a graded one and PSA wasn't involved at all.
I would assume the OP would know if he got back a different card than he sold? He hasn't complained about that, only the removal from the slab.

Rhotchkiss 11-07-2019 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolifedave (Post 1929355)
I have not given the buyer’s name since it is my understand to use this site I have be careful what I post. The ebay original ad has been posted by someone else and includes the winners details.
I am not sure where you are getting your rules for using this site- if you post an opinion about someone you must give your full name, but other than that, you are free to speak the truth and to name people who have screwed you. In fact, I think you are doing the Net54 community a disservice by not telling the name of the person. This guy weasels you out of over $5000, you start a thread to complain about it, yet you hide the guy’s name? That makes no sense in my opinion. You are ask the Board for advice and help, yet you won’t help to protect the people from whom you are seeking help and advice? Again, nonsense.

Best of luck.

Ryan Hotchkiss

Peter_Spaeth 11-07-2019 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 1929361)
I am not sure where you are getting your rules for using this site- if you post an opinion about someone you must give your full name, but other than that, you are free to speak the truth and to name people who have screwed you. In fact, I think you are doing the Net54 community a disservice by not telling the name of the person. This guy weasels you out of over $5000, you start a thread to complain about it, yet you hide the guy’s name? That makes no sense in my opinion. You are ask the Board for advice and help, yet you won’t help to protect the people from whom you are seeking help and advice? Again, nonsense.

Best of luck.

Ryan Hotchkiss
That's how 90 percent of the complaint threads end up Ryan, without naming names.

And I would still like to know why, if the OP thought he had a genuine unaltered Gehrig 7, he would let it go in a GAI holder at a fraction of what it would sell for in a real holder. But I can only ask the same question so many times before I lose interest.

Tabe 11-07-2019 10:26 PM
I see both sides on this. Buyer did not get what was advertised. Card was advertised as NMINT along with some nice keyword spamming in the auction title. Card was not NMINT, it was altered. So he's got a legit case for a return.

However, not cool to return it cracked out.

seff 11-08-2019 01:09 AM
Could you PM me his ebay user name. I'd like to block him. Thanks.

Marchillo 11-08-2019 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1929217)
The buyer was gambling. He wanted to turn a GAI card into a PSA goldmine. Now the seller doesn't even get the GAI graded card back. This is a horrible situation and makes me NEVER WANT TO SELL A GAI CARD ON EBAY!!!! The buyer has everything to gain and nothing to lose.
This is exactly why this is the buyers fault. Assuming the OP didn’t know the card was altered (which I believe is true) the buyer took a gamble on a GAI slabbed card to turn it into a big win. We’ve all seen cards graded by low end companies thinking what the PSA or SGC grade might be and for me it’s usually a pass for this reason.

Send in the card for crossover in the slab. The buyer didn’t do this because he didn’t want the negative influence of a GAI slab/grade.

Good luck to the OP

toledo_mudhen 11-08-2019 04:52 AM
Person that won the card has over 11K feedback with 99% Positive.... This whole thing seems just a bit odd.

Republicaninmass 11-08-2019 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaddy (Post 1929234)
What if this was an autographed T206 that had been authenticated by one of the TPGs, but was then broken out and resubmitted only to come back as 'likely not authentic'?

Would that change anything? Seems like the same scenario to me.
Not of it's been cracked out. No longer the same item

ullmandds 11-08-2019 05:37 AM
I agree with the mentality that being in a GAI holder...the prudent collector would assume the card is authentic. By cracking out the card...the buyer can no longer return the card in as received condition and should be bound to the transaction.

Unfortunately in life today...no one accepts responsibility for their actions and everyone only expects to win...one can no longer lose...losing has become unacceptable.

bnorth 11-08-2019 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 111gecko (Post 1929331)
You crack it, you own it..period. This is BS.
^^THIS^^ times 1000.

I am saddened by all the people making excuses for the buyer. These things usually only happen when the buyer is known and is in the "IN" group of collectors. So who is the well respected honest buyer several are sticking up for?

Republicaninmass 11-08-2019 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 1929397)
^^THIS^^ times 1000.

I am saddened by all the people making excuses for the buyer. These things usually only happen when the buyer is known and is in the "IN" group of collectors. So who is the well respected honest buyer several are sticking up for?

I think they realize the error of their ways, but WON'T stop them from asking for a refund to no avail.

bnorth 11-08-2019 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass (Post 1929405)
I think they realize the error of their ways, but WON'T stop them from asking for a refund to no avail.
Mr $h3rm@n you are a glass half full guy. I figured it was a win for the buyer. Since they now know this works they will be taking advantage of others in a similar fashion in the future, that is if it isn't already a tool in their arsonal.

chalupacollects 11-08-2019 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolifedave (Post 1929124)
Dear Tim,

Thank you but a card was returned just cracked out so no proof of original, the police and USPS advised they don't handle these issues. I was thinking of writing a letter to Ebay CEO. I was wondering has anyone had this issue before and what the outcome was? Keep in mind I'm the seller.
Well they are just passing the buck. Have the police file a report as suggested by others and the file a report with FBI internet crimes unit at https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

I would also let buyer know what you are doing just to throw the fear of god into them...

Lastly please post buyer so rest of us don't get burned...

chalupacollects 11-08-2019 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY (Post 1929151)
But if the cards value was affected by the number grade say a GAI 8 and is now PSA authentic then there is a big hit to cards value. And I understand if buyer did not try and cross over then card would not have lost value. But if this was a card altered by moser and sold by Brett originally and passed on a few times to an owner who did not know the pedigree. Then cracked for better grade and returned Altered, would anybody be siding with OP?
If OP did not know card was altered (and no evidence of that is present) then yes no reason NOT to side with him...

If of course he did know, well then that's a different story...

Leon 11-08-2019 07:20 AM
Ryan, I always appreciate the help but that bolded rule at the top of every page has changed. I kept getting the "well, if it is a fact then it's not an opinion and I don't need my name out there." To that I call total BS so the wording changed. Here is the new rule below (been there a few months at least). It tightened up (or loosened, if you will) the rule. So if the OP mentions the name of the seller then his full name will have to be out here. I am not sure he minds. I know positively that the op is not a big techie person as I walked him through how to post before this thread, on a very pleasant phone call. That all said, now the new rule is-

If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it.
.

And my thought, regardless of what sales talk was given in the description, you crack a card you own a card. (unless both parties agree it is ok beforehand, which is not the case here.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss (Post 1929361)
I am not sure where you are getting your rules for using this site- if you post an opinion about someone you must give your full name, but other than that, you are free to speak the truth and to name people who have screwed you. In fact, I think you are doing the Net54 community a disservice by not telling the name of the person. This guy weasels you out of over $5000, you start a thread to complain about it, yet you hide the guy’s name? That makes no sense in my opinion. You are ask the Board for advice and help, yet you won’t help to protect the people from whom you are seeking help and advice? Again, nonsense.

Best of luck.

Ryan Hotchkiss

chalupacollects 11-08-2019 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1929326)
I think the question comes down to this. If I sell a card in a GAI slab, and don't say anything about it, am I implicitly warranting the card is unaltered? Or is the buyer taking the risk that it's altered, knowing it's in an inferior holder?
If the OP bought the card in a GAI slab then theoretically he is trusting GAI's opinion that the card is what it is. If the buyer buys it that way he/she should be under the same understanding. It is what it is...

I don't think that either one should "know" the card being in a GAI slab is automatically or possibly altered. What if the card was purchased as a gift by a spouse? Does that change anything?

Based on what has been presented, the buyer was looking for a PSA bump, didn't get one and has now harmed the seller's item. Buyer also seems to be a large dealer or collector based on feedback.. ebay has dropped the ball on this...


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