No I'm not debunking any myths. I'm just going by what pieces of the puzzle I've seen or read. No, I don't consider 13 metropolitan cities a nationwide distribution. Actually, I consider that small. My family and extended family is from KC ( as am I) and know one has heard of Bond Bread. That's neither here nor there, and my view is just an opinion which may be an incompletely educated one. My calling the set a " glorified regional" set was obviously a little over the top... which was my intent. I'm always ready to learn all I can in this hobby. Could you
tell me what myth I cited? Do you know the regions the portrait card was distributed? I thought it was only a very small distribution ( Brooklyn, Harlem and other NY areas)?

Hmmm.... sounds like this could be an interesting poll question?

Dave, I would suggest reading this thread.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=171169

I remember that thread and reread it. The photos are no longer posted.
Although I applaud the research and photo dating... the thread doesn't bring me any closer to knowing where the cards were distributed... and for that matter exactly when. The window is certainly proven and precedes the 1948 leaf and Bowman issues almost certainly. The portrait card is described as a " promo card" by the researchers. There's a lot of " we believe", " may have been",
" we speculate " language in there. I'll never consider a promo card a true rookie card and for me the area of distribution is way to small. I'm standing by my opinion.. but great stuff!!! i just love the 49 Bowman too much to budge:rolleyes:

I differ with you there; the Leaf set is iconic. Though I would love for you to be right since I don't own a Leaf JR but have the BB portrait.

As for later cards worth more than a RC:

1951 Topps Current All Stars Roberts vs. 1949 Bowman Roberts

Test issue doesn't work? OK:

1941 Double Play Reese vs. 1953 Bowman: $775 PSA 8 vs. $1300 PSA 8
1941 Double Play Rizzuto vs. 1948 Leaf: $1,000 PSA 8 vs. $1100 PSA 8
1947 Top Top Bread Yogi Berra PSA 8 $1250 vs. 1948 Bowman PSA 8 $3,000

I am sure I could pot-shot examples out of the SMR all day long.

Dave,

I respect your opinion, but you are wrong on the distribution of the promo card being limited to Harlem and Brooklyn NYC.

The portrait has already passed the 49 Bowman in terms of price.

Newly surfaced photos now indicate that the 6 cards distributed in early 1948 all feature images from the game before opening day. Will update my original thread when possible. I do not want to out an auction for those bidding.

I also have first and second hand accounts from those who obtained the cards or family members. The we believes were early in my research. I used that term because I wanted to make sure I had confirmation before stating definitively. I am much further along in my research, and can say that this set's distribution spans far wider than NYC. I say that with 100% certainty.

Regarding the Leaf issue, I do believe that it is an iconic set, and I am proud to own both the Leaf card, as well as the entire BB set.

Hey Shaun,
I'm not challenging that the Bond set predates the Leaf and Bowman. Nor am I challenging it's popularity, status or value. It's a great card. However from my perspective, I don't consider an issue that was limited to less that 15 large Metroplitan areas a candidate for his true rookie card. Earliest card, ok.
Everyone else may disagree
I would like to see the evidence that the portrait was widely distributed. That's interesting.
PS- is everyone ready to get on board with the 54 Johnston cookies Aaron unseating the Topps issue as his true rookie?

Understandable, and you are entitled to your own beliefs. I respect that. I can't answer the Aaron question, as I do not know enough about the set.

No, because the Johnston Cookies is a straight-up, undeniable, regional issue and his Topps RC was produced the same year...rather than a year and a half later. Not sure why you'd use the term un-seat either? They're both 1954 issues.

I don't have either card, so I don't any financial stake in one or the other. But I don't see the Bond Bread portrait supplanting the Leaf card as the Robinson card to have. The Leaf card is such an iconic image, the image that many people think of when they think of a Jackie Robinson card.

I think the fact that the Bond Bread card is black and white and the Leaf is in color hurts the Bond Bread card as well. Obviously, there are many black and white cards in the hobby that are worth huge money, but I do think it limits the chance of the card becoming the iconic Robinson card to own when there are color options issued so closely to the Bond Bread card.

The Berra example is probably the most comparable. However, SMR doesn't mean anything. It would be great to see recent sales of the cards in the same condition (perhaps you have).

The scarcity of the BB makes it more appealing to me and, I imagine, others. The Leaf is available in various conditions quite readily whereas the BB is not.

I myself thought of the Leaf as the *the* Jackie card until I read about the BB. It came out earlier, is harder to find, and IMO looks as nice if not nicer. That makes it the best card to me.

I get the scarcity factor. I love the rare and obscure myself (not saying the Bond Bread is rare or obscure).

There are numerous Mickey Mantle cards that are scarce or obscure, yet they are not the 1952 Topps. The Robinson Leaf card will always be iconic, even though it is not a rare card by any stretch of the imagination.

I still think being black and white hurts the Bond Bread card.

Hasn’t it been accepted that the Leaf card was made in 1949?

It is probably not a fair comparison, but it was not that long ago that Ruth's 1933 Goudey cards were worth more than his M101-5/4 cards.

Sure, but they don’t predate the 52 Topps either. I can understand why someone would pay more for a 52T Mantle than a 51 Bowman or anything else...it’s the key card in the first ever Topps set. But for 48 Leaf? Jackie’s not even the biggest RC (Paige) and Leaf didn’t have the greatest run. I do like the Robinson Leaf aesthetically, but I’ll take a card that came out nearly two years earlier and is much harder to find every time.

I think an interesting comparison is with the Jordan 84 Star and 86 Fleer. The latter is certainly iconic (even more so than the 48 Leaf Jackie) but sells for less in the same condition than the 84 Star. Scarcity carries the day in that case.

I wouldn’t be surprised if people preferred the look of the Leaf. I’m probably in the minority in preferring black and white cards as black and white screams vintage to me.

As a hockey and soccer collector who is really only interested in Jackie as far as baseball goes, I’d hope to see the BB remain affordable. But I don’t expect it to.

Correct

So who wants to trade my JR bread card for a JR Leaf?

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...20portrait.jpg

I have a JR Leaf in SGC 55, so that won't work. Are you interested in selling the BB

Likely depends on the collector. If it were a PSA1 for a PSA/SGC1 or a PSA2 for a PSA2, I would consider it. The BB card still has some catching up to do in the mid-higher grades, but there's no denying it has experienced an incredible jump in the past year. A PSA6 nearly eclipsed the $6k mark last night. I'm glad I got my PSA7 when I did. In hindsight, I wish I bought a few more.

1947 Bond Bread Jackie
 

+1000! Where is it written that a baseball card cannot be considered a player’s true Rookie issue if it was NOT distributed in every US city? That’s utterly absurd! As Dan & Shaun have accurately stated, the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait card was released in June ‘47 in roughly 13+ MAJOR CITIES. Promo card or not, it’s a BASEBALL CARD widely distributed in 1947. It is Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card. The “cherry picking” to suggest otherwise borders on insanity.

That card resold for $425 ($522 with the juiced and shipped) a month ago in the Love of the game auction, I know I bought it.

Nope.

Completely agree. Why should we define what is a RC based on some arbitrary concept of geographic distribution? Baseball wasn't available nationally; there were no MLB teams west of St. Louis. Should we consider the PCL a major league because it played where MLB was 1,000 miles away?

Nevermind

It's an opinion which I've clearly stated may be my own, alone. Thanks for the harsh statements.

I can only guess people are trying to protect their investments (1948/49 Leaf and 49 Bowman) which is understandable but funny to me because, as has already been mentioned, those cards (particularly the 1949 Leaf) are iconic and aren't going to lose their value either way. Conversely, imagine what would happen if the PSA registry recognized the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Portrait as his true RC? Its already exploded regardless, almost completely due to the research provided on this board

I love all My Jackie's

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/952/2...d52df754_z.jpgIMG_0782 by Guy Bourque, on Flickr

Ditto:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi..._%20Jackie.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...0publicity.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...kie%20RPPC.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...binson%201.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...hedule%201.jpg

(Well what did you expect...mainstream cards?)

Those are great , I'm slowly working in his none mainstream cards

so basically the verdict of this thread is my log kicked ass? jk

https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/8/...44100571_o.jpg

I love all of those Robinson's, especially the obscure ones. Here's another very scarce true 1947 Jackie Robinson Pleetwood Slacks rookie year issue, even tougher find than the Bond Bread. Jackie appears really young in this oversized image. This example still has the tab attached on the bottom and PSA has only reviewed 3 of them total. It's available for $1950 if interested.

1947 Bond Bread
 

Let’s just hope that Shaun Fyffe’s extensive research efforts don’t die here, and that a continuous push is made to appropriately redefine Jackie Robinson’s true Rookie card as his 1947 Bond Bread portrait subject. Simply stated, it pre-dates the ‘48/‘49 Leaf by at least a full calendar year, and its vast distribution in numerous major cities solidifies it as a mainstream issue. FYI, this is by no means a “self-serving” push for the 1947 Bond Bread Jackie since I own TWO mid-grade “48 Leaf Jackies. It’s simply a bonafide petition for the hobby to “get it right”!

Makes sense
 

+1

Couldn't agree more. The research conducted and shared by these fellow board members must be commended and, if recent sales are any indication, the hobby has definitely taken notice.