Sort of like our banks, too big to fail? There is some truth to that, even if a major scandal broke, most guys would find a way to justify going on as usual, and the damage would be controlled.

I saw the PDF file of the names involved. There was a Peter Spaeth on it. Not the most common name. Peter is that you or another Peter Spaeth?

Everybody (who uses the people who get paid for their opinions) already finds a way to justify it, remember that part about the first card being a lie?

Doug

David, last year when the list came out I posted a detailed description of the transaction in question and my perspective on it, and answered questions. A number of board members whose names appeared (in some cases multiple times) chose to remain silent. Which was the better course, who knows, but in any event I really am not inclined to go another round, so I refer you to the prior thread.

Cool. Yesterday was the first time I saw the list. It was one of the largest percentage losses I saw and so it stuck out like a sore thumb and I saw the name Peter Spaeth next to it. I only recall a few names that were important to the hobby like Dave Forman being on it when it was released and discussing how that would be a concern if David Hall or Joe Orlando were named but they weren't. With that being the case I think it was wise to not try and implicate the third party graders.

No basis...They're a paid service. Supposedly card experts. And they can't tell a trimmed card? The most famous card in the history of cards no less. They should be buried in mud for that. How anybody can send them money after that is beyond me.

Well...like P.T. Barnum said...

For hobbyists, PSAs ineptitude or corruption is a big deal. For the average person watching CNBC, they don't really care about PSA unless they can be submerged in scandal. For the reasons above, CNBC can't really do that without significant liability. They can say PDA missed it and the general public will yawn.

I just saw the CNBC bonus features. This is another scam that I wasn't aware of. This raises several questions:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/2...nce-faked.html

Was the Plank graded by PSA or SGC?

What ever happen to the card? Did the grading company buy it back or is it in another "high profile" collection in elite registry status?

Interesting about the Plank. About '98 or '99 someone was selling a few professionally restored Goudey Ruth and Gehrig on eBay. These cards looked almost perfect stating they were restored with donor cards and very little restoration was needed.

Does anyone remember them and know what happened to them?

I don't remember those exact cards. I do remember the people doing the restoring openly advertising their work in that time frame. They made it sound like they could take a beater and turn it into a mint card using other cards of the same year for donor parts.

Yes, I remember. He was around even before then, early 1990s or 1980s. I think he put a pen dot on the back of the cards to identify them, and I assume the built up borders would show up under blacklight or holding up the card to a light (opacity). It was before blacklights were commonly used, and I assume the restoration would be easy to identify.

He was was overt about what he was doing and sold them for what they were-- restored cards. The concern was about deception by later sellers.

Also, if I recall correctly, the guy quit doing it years back, because he became allergic to substances used.

I a member of PSA, have registry sets, etc....

But, weren't some of PSA's expert board members identified as participants in the shilling scheme? If so, should they still be on PSA's board today?

There were some big names, but I don't recall that.

There have been rumors abounding for many years that the whole grading gala for the T206 rollout Wagner by PSA and Mastro was a staged event from the get go. As the story goes, Bad Bill approached, I guess, Collector's Universe brass with the Wagner in hand (yet trimmed or not, who knows?) and basically said, 'let's make a deal.' -- perhaps something like I will pay you
X to make this T206 Wagner Wonder Card the first card you grade, but it must be a nrmt/mt 8. The publicity for both of us will be terrific etc. etc.
Perhaps just another urban legend about this sad chapter in hobby history.

I am one of the many collectors who prefer raw cards to graded. I frankly find the obsession over a 6 vs. a 7 vs. an 8, which to my eye look virtually the same (and all nice) to be uninteresting. But I do understand the financial implications of those differences, and therefore strongly believe that any company that performs this service has a fiduciary obligation to be consistent and accurate in its performance.

But at an even more base level, many collectors like me have been told that we should buy slabbed cards whenever we are purchasing something of any real value as protection against buying a fake or tampered card. Now while I believe that PSA catches the fakes, the fact that I cannot confidently believe that a slabbed card has not in fact been tampered with simply gives me yet another reason to stay aware from them altogether.