Well played Jeff
 

This pretty much sums it up

+10000000000000000

99.9% of the purchases and sales we do, whether on eBay, REA, Heritage, LOTG are accessible on the Internet going forward. Don't understand why transactions done on BST have to be cloaked in secrecy. I'm not losing sleep over it, but don't understand the other side either.

"it's not my job to educate anybody!"

Lol

Me personally, I don't mind the lowball offer itself. As you say, there's nothing wrong with trying to get things as cheaply as possible. It's the tactics that some collectors employ to justify what they know is a lowball offer that I find annoying.

I don't need a dissertation of what fair market value should be, a quote of a single low selling price found somewhere that I should match, or a guilt trip as to why I have the audacity to increase the price on something when I go to re-sell it.

It's fine to make a low offer, but when I don't take it, or counter with something I deem more reasonable and a message of "Best I can do," a paragraph of text in a second lowball offer (or even a follow-up message that doesn't actually include an offer) isn't going to convince me to crawl down in the gutter on my price. I'm more likely to just block that bidder and move on at that point. The buyer may take offense at that, or insist that any tactic is fair game in the name of getting the best price possible, but I simply don't have time to be messing around with someone I have already determined to have unreasonable expectations.

I like tacos.

What I put in em and on em is my business. What I pay for em is nobody's business, especially the ex.

I agree that a completed sale price is really no one's business except for the buyer and seller, but as a newer collector of older cards, I love it when the asking price is left in the thread because I search the archives for past sales. That helps me set realistic starting prices when I want to sell my own stuff.

Yes, but if you've previously advertised your taco for the world to see, and in fact wanted as many people as possible to view, consider and wish to purchase your taco... The minute you get what you want, the taco is now off limits?? So its "Please!!! Look at my taco!!" "I'll tell you anything you want to know about my taco!!" " but the minute it sells, no one is longer needed, hence, my taco is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!"

Oh! but next time I have another taco I want to sell... Please view and consider!!!!!

I went off the rails with this, and its all in jest. 😁

Rethinking this question, I cannot think of a logical reason for removing the asking or sales price when I delete the scan and the text of the listing.

The last one I deleted was listed for $83 and sold for $83.;)

haha you got me...


Its funny how a sale of a card is argued to be private, but a sale of a house which is the most expensive thing most people buy in their lives has a sale price for all of the world to see and is not private...but a $5000 card, keep it private! Every house is unique it can be argued as well with the special updating the homeowner did.

Anyway its up to the seller if they want to remove the price but if its been quoted in the thread we will at least know the asking price and can assume the card sold for that price or less....at least its a starting point

Yup. What I pay is my own business. What you pay should be captured by prosperity. This ain't no democracy. Out and out self-serving capitalism, boys!🤑🇺🇸

Or maybe something changed in the market, and now you are going to use an outdated price to justify the price of the item for sale.

market can always change but always good to have prior sold prices versus no info.... maybe the prior sold market may not matter for a certain deal but there are others it could matter...who knows

Yep. There are lots of places to get them, just not everywhere.

Sorry, Jupiter is still a planet. Don't confuse it with Pluto which was reclassified as a dwarf planet.

I don't sell often, but when I do, I leave any price information intact. Keep in mind, what I asked for is not necessarily what I might have gotten, but should somebody ask me, I don't have any qualms telling them.

I use ***SOLD*** as a title edit to keep folks from wasting their time checking the thread.


Bids posted should be left intact in the bidder's post. I can only hope those bidders will leave their own bids in place.


One thing I will do going forward is be sure to add a post stating the winning bid.


I do not accept 'out of thread' bids either during or after the stated end of auction.


Anyone who has trouble with the way I handle my auctions is more than welcome to tell me, but I seriously doubt there is any need for me to change it.


.

I also normally enter ***SOLD*** next to my asking price. However, a couple buyers have PM'd me after the transaction and requested that I remove the price stating they don't want everyone knowing their business. So, in those few instances, I did remove it per their request.

This is a very polarizing issue obviously... It's like gun control. I do not think everyone will ever agree on this.

I'm sure there has to be a happy medium.

How about leaving the original asking price?

No matter how many times you reduce it, just leave that first asking price.

This way people can see where you started.

I understand the point of if you get slaughtered on a deal and people will make you feel like crap (it's happened to me), but that is part of the game. We all get burned at some point.

Maybe everyone throws in 25 cents at the beginning on the year, and the person who gets killed the worst gets the money.

That would offset some thought of people getting scared about getting screwed in the BST

I believe the current polite term is "little planet" wouldn't want to offend. ;)

Steve B

That's how I would approach it, too, Jason. I have no problem divulging price information, but if a buyer asks me to keep that information a private matter for any reason, I absolutely respect their wishes.

Hey There Steve!,

I Know...
I was JuST KiddiN Around ~ :)

Very Good, I was Actually WaitiN Ta See Who Would Set me Straight!

Greetings Bill!,

JuST Ta Note...
It's Been Like THiS Fir The LaST 20 Years or Soo!

Prabably Like an Average of Once a Year THiS "Pet Peeve"
Rears its Remarkable Head ~

No Worries Though....
MoST oF uS Hav the BeTTar Half of the Day Ta Do as We Please :)

Did Ya Sell All of Those Shiney Cards Yet?

Thank God a reasonable response! I've said this a million times and no one wants to listen. Everyone just wants free information so they can price their items accordingly. Do your homework (like the rest of us) and price your items based on your research.

But the listing was posted on a public forum. The original listing and asking price should remain just that. Public information. The deal that was made from that listing is obviously private.

This is about how I remember the discussion going last time. A few on both ends who don't really get the opposite point of view. And just as many in the middle who don't really care either way.

Don't be selfish and delete the prices. Keep em intact for the good of the community. Who cares if someone down the road sees what you paid for the card. Doesn't mean you have to let that figure into the negotiation when it's time to sell. And for those who just plain don't think it's their job to help educate their fellow hobbyists, well that's just selfish and not in the spirit of net54 BST

I believe that a person may be wiling to make one offer, that completely differs from another offer that they make, if they know what the buyer has paid for an item.

In a thin market it greatly affects the price.

Think about a card that may be really hard to get. Lets say that only 5 exist. The last time one sold was the exact card you are looking to buy. There are rumors and rumblings you hear through conversations with others, that the card may be worth 30k. You look up and find that the buyer bought it for 15k about 4 years ago. Long enough that you had some trouble finding the price but were able to find it.

Since the price is so subjective, because it doesn't sell often, do you offer him 20k knowing he paid 15k as to allow him to make a nice profit (enticing price just large enough to loosen the card out of his collection) and still leave room for you, having that inside knowledge that the card may now be worth 30k, hoping that he may not have kept up on it or know what you know?

Knowing the exact previous sale price of a card is a MAJOR advantage to the buyer in a negotiation. I have never asked anyone to take down the price, but I definitely am not going to advocate for someone to leave my buy prices up. Ever.

Most of the cards I own and offer up for sale were purchased from ebay or an auction. Anyone is free to do a little research to find out what I paid. Why should this site be so different? Transactions here are part public, in the listing, and part private, in the discussion and final sale price. It seems reasonable to me that the public part remain public.

I understand your point but find it laughable that the seller in your scenario above would be at a disadvantage. A deal will be made or not regardless of the buyer knowing the price paid (which btw they usually do to Jesse's point above). It's up to the seller to negotiate his price based on what he thinks he can maximize from the market with knowledge that most buyers are trying to get the best deal. If the cards worth $30k who gives an Eff that I paid $15k? Totally irrelevant to the negotiation. I could have received the card from a long lost uncle Joe for free, does that mean I'm more susceptible to selling it for less than its worth? Maybe. But that's the buyer's job to find out. Going back and erasing asking prices is silly

It is not laughable and it is not irrelevant. You could have gotten it from a cousin, but that is not the scenario we are dealing with. The entire thread is about a "BUY Price". being cataloged with an image of the card meaning you paid money for it, and it is documented.

On big cards, yea, sometimes you don't want to sit on the card forever. Sometimes you "HAVE" to move the card and get your money back. "Moving" the card at your price becomes harder when say 80 to 90 percent of the people that want the card know what you paid for it. To think it isn't relevant is ridiculous. The entire concept of pricing is based on previous sales. Lack of previous sales allow for a truly free market on the card( meaning don't base your price based on what others paid for it, base it on what it is worth to you). Humans have this ridiculous need to draw assimilation to make sense of something. It is programmed right into our brains.

Multiple potential buyers seeing the sale price in a highly volatile and subjective makes selling it hard. My claim here is not really subjective and open to interpretation. IT DOES MAKE IT HARDER. I have done it, have you?

Do you sell cards or just buy them? How common are the ones you are selling. Mid century Topps PSA 3's and 4's are we talking rare, super hard to find niche market cards in top grade. Cards that basically only sell at auction? Cards that have a fear about what they may bring, hence your buyers may back out and wait for it to go to auction kind of cards?

Your entire premise of leaving the prices up are solely so you know how to price a card. When I am wanting to make a profit, I don't want you to use my pricing to price my card. This isn't a hard concept to understand.

1. VCP gets paid to do exactly what you guys are trying to avoid: (gasp) tell the world how much you paid for a card.
2. I personally love having card prices (particularly on ultra-rare stuff) cataloged and listed, both as a buyer and a seller. So many deals go on behind the scenes in private sales with rare cards that vcp is often left in the dust. I know of cards that sold publicly at 5k and later sold for over 30k privately a year later. If I wanted to buy OR sell another example of that card, I think it is vital to know what it sold for privately.
3. If the guy you are selling the card to says "but you only paid X for it," he is just as likely to quote you the vcp anyway, so who cares?

Of course you do. You want to be in the game, without spending a lot of time to acquire niche knowledge that professionals use to make their profits and as professionals, they want there to be less of them so there is room to make the profits they need.

Revert back to my last post. The last thing I want you doing is justifying your offer on my purchase price when I am trying to make a profit on a card. This is not hard to understand.

On rare stuff, lots of things don't make it into VCP. There is simply no category for them. Think about how to price all of the t206 errors, miscuts, oddities. There is nothing to go, on other than the past sales of that exact card.

"Of course you do. You want to be in the game, without spending a lot of time to acquire niche knowledge that professionals use to make their profits..."


It is like you are staring into my soul.

If you are trying to sell something truly rare, a dozen copies or less, and there hasn't been a public sale in years, I do NOT want my purchase of the card out there. I have had this used against me in these scenarios, I can call them all the names I want but in the end I want their money. I have spent years chasing cards following private sales as none make it to public auction. It is a lot of work and all the scenarios are different. Selling is completely different if you HAVE to sell the card versus not.

Its just hard to believe that some people simply cannot understand the opposite side here. I understand you want your info, you think we are silly but we disagree...and that is ok. No one is ripping someone off or even being rude.

There is an obvious dividing-line on this issue between guys who sell for a living and guys who are primarily collectors who sell on occasion. I don't think either side is necessarily wrong here. My point is, who cares if we know what you paid for a '48-49 Leaf Jackie PSA 3 on the board? We all know the card sells in the neighborhood of $1,500.00. Ebay, VCP, and auction results tell us as much. But I am sure that you guys, as sellers, have your reasons. No one is wrong here. Just a lively discussion is all.

Exactly this. Yes.

I am not a dealer, I hate selling cards and rarely do. And you are right, who cares about a card that always has examples on ebay...if there were only 8 copies of that card and you had one you may feel differently.

I think everyone understands your point. And yes I buy and sell as a hobbyist but am not a dealer which sounds like you might be. My point is that the community good from the knowledge gained by all should trump your fear of your buyer knowing a historical price offered

Not if it goes for big money! And if it doesn't, then my card ISN'T WORTH BIG BUCKS, and such is life!!!!!!!!! You gotta take the good with the bad. I collect rare cobb postcards. If someone sold a Cobb postcard on here that I also own, and it goes for huge money, then great: I want the world to know. And if it does NOT, then that is the market, and I don't care to hide it from everyone in hopes I can scam them later. I am done with this topic, but have at it.

I agree with ya there Orly, but you are neither the buyer nor the seller in that scenario.

How exactly does the hobby progress with price information anyway? It does nothing for the hobby itself. And no, I am not a dealer in any way and never have been.

Disagree with you big time there Steven. Pricing information is key for the hobby as for one it signals which cards/sets we can focus on based on budget. If I run across a card/set I'm not familiar with on BST and the offer price has been deleted I can't make a quick judgement if it fits into a future buying opportunity. Man I really love that (fill in the blank!) and now know it was being offered for $500, I'll put that in memory or on my list of something to pursue in the future. For all the dealers using BST, it behooves you to educate your customers and treat them fairly as they will most likely come back for multiple transactions.

You think the Dr. getting kicked off his United flight will be flying United anytime soon? lol

Take paragraph 2, and replace "card" with "house".

Oh you're right, it's a very bad analogy :confused:. We should be comparing houses to a commodity like coffee beans, not baseball cards, because all houses are the same, unlike baseball cards.

AJ, everything you talk about has to do with the hobbyist, not the hobby. Whether you participate in the hobby or not does nothing for the hobby itself...at least the way I think of it. All your points, all your issues within this have to do with providing the community with as much information as possible. I just don't agree this has anything to do with bettering the hobby....strongly.

Just look at all the info out there now regarding sold prices on houses accessible to the public. Stopped lots of flippers in their tracks. Also, led to people changing addresses on their houses and condos. Unit 1 for unit A, 3rd street to Third St...etc

It actually is a bad analogy because house sales are public record. Not because they couldn't be considered 1 or 1 items as well (which they could).

Well I just gave you an example. Does the hobby get stronger if potential buyers know more about cards/sets and what they cost? I think so. It certainly benefits future sellers on BST if they've got more interested buyers. And I become an interested buyer when I know a certain card/set fits into my budget. At the end of the day the BST is a place where hobbyists come together to buy, sell and trade within the trusting net54 community. Deleting asking prices because you're afraid of having to validate your asking price when it comes time to sell is a poor excuse from taking away from the community at large.

Yes. The housing market works nothing like the card market but that is way off of the point I was attempting to make, along with your analogy.

My argument only, was that there is more potential room to make profit if buyers don't know what I paid for an item. It is also has the chance of turning some buyers off because they don't know what a fair price would be.

You only want to know what 'fair' is so you don't get ripped off. You don't want to pay more than you have to, but you are forgetting that you don't have to pay anything if you don't want to.

If you purchase with what you think it is worth to you, regardless of knowing what it is worth to someone else, you will never get ripped off. You then don't need to know what other people thought it was worth, because you got it for what you thought it was worth to you.

yes confucius good post and pretty much useless for this conversation

It certainly benefits future buyers if sellers make money on the cards that buyers want so they can continue to sell cards to potential buyers.

At the beginning of the day, Net54 is a place where people come to talk about a lot of things, one of which is selling cards and reaching buyers, one method of such through advertising, which like everything else, is up for a certain period in time, and then it is no longer available.

please keep going...you're doing a great job of making my point