Irv....
 

A funny side note about my friend who was carrying $8000 cash on him when he entered the show on Wednesday. I was on the phone with him while he was walking the 5 blocks from his hotel to the Show and I overheard a panhandler ask my friend for some change........my friend confidently said "Sorry, I have no change on me!" ! Technically he told me he was telling the truth as he had no change! Just $8000 in cash bills!!!! :eek:

He is also a burly guy and not a pushover but he even admitted to taking an Uber back to his hotel each night as the street seems to change in the dark in AC! :cool:

Peace, Mike

LOL

Don't blame him one bit!

kevin
 

outstanding write-up Kevin - thank you!

Of course anything is possible but we're talking less than two minutes from the time he acknowledged me to the time he walked away.

SGC did a great job for me. Only very minor complaint is the very nice guy helping me didn't know much about grading. But his job was to take submissions.

PSA line was nuts today ten minutes after the gates opened.

Bought nothing after 6 hours on Thursday and today bought an expensive card 5 minutes in the room.

Really have to wonder about the guy with half a table of Trump paraphernalia. I am not violating Leon's rule in that I'd make the same exact comment if it as Clinton stuff. Who would want to see political stuff when they are here to buy cards. I guess some people are just incapable of turning it off.

Al at LOTG had to be the busiest guy in the room. I stopped by a dozen times to say hello and every single time he was reviewing a consignment. Once was being interviewed.

White House sub shop is a ten minute walk. A nice walk. I pity people who are the dreck in the hall. The Tun Tavern right across from the center is a nice place. Was buzzing at lunch today. When you need to step out and get a beer it's a stones throw.

Was really amazed about all the youngsters. Roving 10 and 15 year olds. Was really cool to see. Collecting is not dead!

What did you buy, if you don't mind?

That would tick me off royally. Especially if the guy was begging for your business just months earlier. And to treat you like you were nobody.

2016 Atlantic City National
 

Just returned from 2016 Atlantic City National.

I drove down from Maine. Took a relaxing antiquing trip across New Hampshire to Vermont starting early on Wednesday. Was excited about how relaxing a trip it was taking this route. Unfortunately the 2nd half of the trip was a nightmare. New Jersey has the worst road signs in the country, and the traffic was bad including seeing the wreck of a smoldering 18 wheeler just prior to leaving NJ headed for Interstate 87 North on my trip home on Thursday afternoon. Lucky for me, I was headed North and the wreck was Southbound.

I reached the Atlantic City Convention Center a few hours before the opening on Thursday, and was excited about what surprises might lie ahead.

Here's my impression of the show.

I have been to Nationals in Cleveland, Atlanta, the original Atlantic City show, and Baltimore, and this show had a lot of open area at both the ends. Found the layout of dealers to be very fragmented with larger displays in the middle that broke up the flow of going row to row.

No doubt I was agitated from a crappy drive through New Jersey, but I viewed the entire show in only about 2 1/2 hours. Keep in mind, I had no interest in any autographs, new products, grading services, card breaks, auction houses...strictly an interest in 1905-1920 cards and memorabilia.

Of all the Nationals I have been to, I have never seen such a small amount of memorabilia. I also never recall seeing so many tables not ready to receive customers at the 10 opening at previous Nationals. I also noticed that prices were much higher compared to other Nationals I had been to in years past.

On a positive note, however, the show did have some nice T202s, T204s, T205s, T206s, T207s and T210s. One dealer had a display case full of nice 1909 Obaks. Don Hontz of Portand, Maine had a really nice selection of 1914 Cracker Jacks, 1915 Crack Jacks, and T205s at his table.

There also seemed to be a decent selection of nice postcards such as: Rose Co., Novelty Cutlery, Sepia, Ullmans, Sporting News etc.

Lucky for me, I did see one rare item that I was interested in acquiring in one of the tables at the far end opposite from the card break end.

As luck would have it, I was able to strike a trade deal with Tim N. from the board, and acquired this 1913 Ira Thomas cravats. That purchase was the lone saving grace from a disappointing show.


Patrick

That does seem odd, but I bet whatever it was he was talking about, distracted him enough to forget about you? (Just a guess of course and not taking sides)

That is great to hear! :)

going tomorrow for my first time, I have a want list of T206 Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and Cy Young. Would like to pick one of those 3 up in a 3 or a nice looking 2.

To be honest, im quite nervous about the national's markup. But....I have never been so maybe it's not that bad?

Once you establish yourself as a knowledgeable collector and not some jammoke who just stumbled in from the casino I think most sellers are willing to be reasonable. Of course there can always be good faith difference in opinion as to what something is worth. I would chat a bit and establish you know what you are doing before throwing out a number.

There is a table on the far left (as you are heading to the back that has multiples of all of those. Can't remember how they were priced. The same table had the PSA 5 mantle for 115k - so use that as a relative price index.

the mantle does not mean anything to me. I do not track mantle stuff at all because it's just not worth it.

Thanks for all the updates!

Jimmy

Just letting you know that was the only price I remember from his table as a point of reference.

thanks for the updates...sounds kinda similar to every national I've been to in last 10 years!

He's been very persistent at some shows I've been doing, making all sorts of great offers etc... and I've enjoyed talking with him, but I hadn't submitted anything yet. One can always misinterpret, but it really felt like I was getting the brush-off, like I hadn't been worth his time. Contrast that with the treatment I got with Robert Edwards and PWCC it came off even worse. I mean Larry Dean was busy as hell while I was there, but he still took a few seconds to chat with me and meet my friend.

So I am somewhere between a jammoke (I think, I'm not sure what that is but it doesn't sound complimentary) and a knowledgeable collector. I know there is a ton of talk about pricing at the National, and here's sort of my view:

1) The National is the only show where I can confidently walk in knowing that I can line up 5 to 10 cards that I want, look at them side-by-side, and understand exactly what I'm buying and how it stacks up versus the other cards. I bought my Gehrigs this year and last year, and both times I hemmed and hawed, and went back and forth on what card I wanted, and could have easily bought any of 4 or 5 cards, but I settled on a LOWER GRADED card because I did not like the higher graded alternatives as much as I thought I should. It had nothing to do with price, but it had to do with what I could see and how the row of cards stacked up against each other. I won't get that at many other shows, I don't think.

2) Because it's the National, these guys are paying premium $$$ for tables, and so in a seller's market, that cost is transferred to the buyer. That's just basic economics in what is clearly right now a price inelastic market.

3) I don't go to the National to compete on pricing. I go for the experience, the ability to learn and to see what I estimate is 75% to 80% of total US inventory for sale at this stage in life. I get good data points on how prices are moving, what's available and not in broad strokes, and a way to sort of narrow down my focus. In short, it's a very complete data point in what is typically a very fragmented, opaque marketplace. If I ever go, and guys are competing on pricing aggressively, that will be very instructive to me as well for how I could purchase cards over the next 12 to 18 months.

Using all of that information, I think you can find pockets and areas that are soft, or not extremely elevated, in order to get what you need. I paid a lot more than I wanted for my Gehrig last year (and I didn't bargain on mine this year) but I walked the entire floor and didn't find another one in the ENTIRE NATIONAL. That pressed me into action; I wouldn't have had that experience without the National.

Is it worth $22 and $10 for parking and maybe $25 in gas? For me, without a doubt. I look forward to it every single year.

I did almost the exact same thing. Wed I went searching for any e92 Nadjas I could find but came up completely empty. Thursday I tried to just find something different/unique but nothing really stood out. I did meet and complete a trade with ValKehl that netted me a e92 Nadja Schaeffer. This morning I ended up picking up a great looking t3 Johnson for a very reasonable price.

Overall I thought the show was pretty good and everyone who was complaining about the location missed out. I was able to Meet a ton of folks from the board (too many to name) while hanging out at Al's booth and just as many while roaming the floor. I think this was probably the highlight of the show for me. Below are a few of my other thoughts.

1) Dealers seemed to be doing well. Observed several deals being completed for over $1k. None of the dealers I spoke to were complaining about the amount of business they were getting.

2) Tons of 52 Topps Mantles available. I would say at least 30-40 were qavailable with several dealers having multiples in different grades available. Prices were all over the place, but I think the cheapest I saw priced was $10k. I did hear multiple discussions for the 51 bowman from attendees either looking to buy or sell.

3) Lots of T206s available including several dealers with rare backs. I know I saw red Hindu, Drum, multiple Uzits, etc. One dealer had a number of different oddities and another had cases filled with Cobbs, Youngs, Mathewsons, etc. The same dealer also had quantities of Goudey Ruth's, Gehrigs, etc. In general, caramels seemed to be in short supply.

4) AC - I thought the convention center was good enough. but about 1/4 of the convention center was reserved for the case break area. Every time I went pasta this area it seemed to be empty. This kind of made me wonder if the case break was smaller, would that open up the possiblity of different locations being considered for the future. At the same time, I spoke with several people that expressed confusion over the whole case break ideas.

Walking the streets seemed safe enough in the morning. Granted, I did not walk back in the evening. I could see how the streets outside the convention centers/outlet area could be less than friendly when the sun goes down.

That's all I can think of at the moment.
DJ

I liked a lot of what you had to say, but you clearly overestimate the National if you think the above is even remotely accurate.

Kinda contradicts what you said later "I walked the entire floor and didn't find another one in the ENTIRE NATIONAL"

So, what is the percentage? Again, I'm no expert, I am just guessing.

It doesn't contradict it. It's my assumption that if I want it, I'm going to find it at the National, and in multiple forms. If I don't find it in multiple forms, then I better act quick, because I'm not sure how I'm going to find it elsewhere without paying a finder's fee/auction fee of some sort.

Again, because I think there's so much at the National, if I can't find it, I sorta say "Oh, man, I gotta buy it now or maybe not get a chance again."

I'd be shocked if 25% of the industry's prewar inventory was in that room. BEYOND shocked actually. There might be as much prewar inventory in board members homes who weren't at the National as there was at the National. I think I'd actually take that action in favor of the board.

Yeah, I put a decimal point then start adding zeros to the right of it before writing a 1.

National
 

Anyone see any tougher Joe Jackson cards for sale?

Tony

Well, it has been very interesting reading all the reports from National. I'm not sure when or even if I'll ever be able to attend.

If it ever comes to Atlanta, I would make a concerted effort to be there...but, even then, I would be quite the green-horn to such surroundings. Nice to know there was a good Net54 representation there...perhaps that sort of group would provide some guidance should I show up.

For someone who is yet to move up to a smart-phone, what's the best way to carry / handle your finances / then purchases at National...I mean, I know to carry anything in my front pockets, not my back pockets - but what else would y'all advise?

Thanks,
Raymond

1 day
 

My son (12 yrs old) and I went all day on Thursday. I have been collecting since 1976, but this was only the 2nd National I have ever attended and my son's first.

When we entered the hall at 10AM we walked right past Joe Orlando of PSA chatting with some guy in an aisle near the PSA booth.

Things I noticed - I asked at a number of dealers' tables that had pre-war for York Caramels (E210) but found none! Very strange, I thought.

I was also looking for a 1934 Goudey Jimmie Foxx in PSA 3 and could not find one. In fact I only saw a few in any condition, most were not graded or PSA 1's or 2's. Most of the raw were in similar condition. I also saw at least 1 high grade.

I was also looking for Old Judge Baltimore players and John Tener cards. I saw a bunch of Old Judges - but not one Baltimore or John Tener Old Judge. Nada -

Saw lots of high & low grade card stars and RC's from 1950s and 1960s. But less in mid grade - PSA-4-6. PSA 6's I saw in these were priced significantly higher than normal prices for these. I tried to buy a 1951 Bowman Nellie Foxx RC in PSA 6 and found only 1, but could not come to an agreement with the dealer. He wanted $175, but it was OC top to bottom and I just could not pull the trigger.

My most successful buys were 3 graded T206 Baltimore players I needed: Adkins, Dessau, and Dunn (Old Mill).

I met one guy in his 30's at a dealer's table who specialized in high grade 1950s stars and RC's. He dropped 9K on a couple of high grade RC's. The dealer asked him what he did for a living and he said he was an investment broker. I guess those guys really are driving the market now.

Bitter sweet thing, my son bought mostly Pokemon cards (of which there was a fairly large supply) - but we still had fun hanging out all day and he liked looking at the pre-war stuff I was checking out. I was kind of secretly hoping some collector or dealer would verbally encourage him to collect sports cards but no one said anything to him (possibly because he is already 5'10"), except one dealer who rudely told him to get out of a chair at his booth because they were for customers (not realizing I was on the other side of the booth trying to purchase some cards from his partner).

I though the show had plenty of room in the aisles and in the hall in general. Seemed like a bigger space than what was at the last Baltimore National. Easy parking for $15 right next to the convention center.

White House Subs did not disappoint after the show was over.

I will anxiously look forward to the next National on the East Coast!

Rich, I did see some E210s at the show on Thursday & Friday, but not all that many. I do specifically recall seeing a couple of York Caramel WaJos.

Did not notice any valuable Shoeless Joe cards.

they were probably getting them signed as Namath is signing Sat.

that wouldnt be very smart if they were graded...esp high grade.

there appears to be no shortage of jordan rookies at this years national!

One of the big auction houses was selling a Gehrig rookie exhibit SGC 30 I think for $35K. Not a bad investment considering where that card is sitting right now on the Heritage site with nearly a month to go in bidding.

Aaargh. Make me wanna go back and take the BestOffer I had with 707 on Ebay on his poor water damaged copy he had for sell at 4k-ish.
Waiting for the bubbles to burst any moment now!!!

Was that the card at Memory Lane (I Own It) booth? If yes, I looked at that card and one of the employees own it. He had a price tag of 60k on it. I didn't see another 1925 Gehrig Rookie there on the floor. I saw a 1927 Gehrig Exhibit and bought it for a great price from Scottsdale Cards.

Saturday morning at the Nationals and the Feds havent been on the floor yet for a dramatic bust? :smh:

I believe he said "what I estimate is 75% to 80% of total US inventory for sale"

not just total inventory
:)

Thanks everyone for the fantastic national descriptions and I appreciate the entirety of it even if it isn't pre war. Great to get the big picture and details on all of it. You got me excited about Chicago next year

I want to publicly thank
 

My awesome dad for all his help this weekend. I was recently diagnosed with Lyme disease after a nearly year long battle they finally figured out what it was. It has left me weak and tired and he has certainly picked up the slack for me. If I seemed aloof or stand offish to anyone this weekend I apologize. Again Love you dad and thanks for all of your tremendous help.

Are there a lot of Zeenuts at the national this year

That really sucks Glyn. Hope they get you fixed up, Lyme disease took a very good friend about 3 yrs ago.

I understand, but there's no way even with that qualification.

Thanks to everybody for their reports. It's a joy to read your experiences as it does make me feel like I'm a part of it even though I'm not there.

One tidbit I found interesting is the lack of caramel cards. I guess a lot of people are stashing them in case another wave of caramel craziness comes around.

Wanted to add...what about Coupons? Any t213-1's, 2's or 3's out there?

No kidding, saw 2 different dealers with at least 75 Jordan rookies each.

I have been away on vacation and will not be able to attend the show at all this year. :(

I have been scanning the posts in this thread and this is the first mention I have seen about 19th century material, specifically Old Judges. How was the "bunch" you saw distributed - one dealer with lots of them, a handful of dealers with quite a few of them, many dealers with five or less of them?

Assuming anyone pays attention, did you see a selection of oddball pre-WW1 sports/Olympic cards (T218, T221, E229, etc.)? There's probably not much demand but I'd love to go somewhere and be able to browse these sort of sets.

A thread over at CU had this picture with an E90-1 Jackson for sale.

(Dealer's booth is "Luckiest Man"):

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/...s2fnoufgc.jpeg

Steve

Wow.

I love when the term "set" is used creatively!!!!

I saw about 5 dealers with Old Judges. I believe the dealer that had the most had about 25 total. The other four had about 10 each.

I did notice one dealer who had a at least one display case with pre - WWI sports cards, and 1 case of pre-WWII sports cards. Saw at least 3 dealers with the pre-WWII Olympic sports cards.

Good point - but it was an impressive display. When I looked at it, I wondered if many collectors think in terms of these as sets, or if it was just a marketing ploy for expensive cards.