You are sounding like a character in the Big Short!

Here is a corrupt and rigged system, but right now everyone is getting rich off it. Even the shilled winner ends up with an item whose new de facto value is sky high and prime for flipping.

If shilling remains widespread among the largest sellers, there definitely is a bubble that will pop. The question is how to use that information to your advantage ethically.

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never saw it...is it on netflix? I just got it!

Was just in theaters around Christmas. Was a look back at the housing bubble and its profiteers. Guessing it's out on Netflix by now.

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Boo Hoo!
 

I feel so sorry for all you "Ebay Flippers" out there that weren't able to steal
anything from this month's PWCC auction.

There are other sellers on Ebay (I should know - I'm one of them)....I am guessing other buyers will just focus on other sellers for the 'normal' pricing, and just consign to PWCC for the premium pricing. I'm not smart enough, or care enough to do it myself. I'm sure others can, and do "do it".

I'm not surprised. Again I don't even bother looking at these auctions.

the guy that's buying the 1952 Topps Baritromes is in theory a 'legit' buyer...but you don't see me paying $400 for a psa 2...even with the sales history..

past sales to me don't mean much by just looking at how much it sold for..auction price for BIN matters to me...also...I look for unique bidders at certain price points.....a 2 guy bidding war where the winning price is 50% over the third highest bidders high bid also means nothing to me

the artificial inflation is seen as artificial.... im sure if you are smart enough not to bid on 'shilled' auctions then you are smart enough not to fall for artificial sales history....there are many ways to avoid being a victim.......just saying (and I am not excusing fake bidders and undisclosed shilling/reserve etc)

Hey is a "shit ton" greater than a "butt load"? :p :eek:

Actually, I liked that post. Tell it like it is.

pwcc auctions
 

I was looking at some high end Aaron's. I even put in a couple of very solid bids, er so I thought - won nothing. On the one hand its nice to see the high prices. But on the other hand, the prices seem a little fishy too high. Just my honest gut feeling. I could be wrong. I suppose look and drool all you want, but watch it, don't go too overboard with your bids.

A good test would be to now list a couple cards that went way high on PWCC with the same prices or say, 5 percent less, with BIN to see if anyone bites.

I think that has already been proven. Another posted pointed out along time ago that the sales prices surpassed some of the BIN prices, some by a considerable margin.

This has been discussed though, BINs sometimes are never looked at..its not uncommon for a an auction price to go higher on ebay then a current BIN..sometimes thats actually when the BIN is snapped up, right after an auction goes higher...ive done the same thing....heck with the way the willie mays rookie cards have gone up, im sure even some of Deans cards waterfront property cards like the Mantle/ Mays were even bought up after some auctions took place immediately thereafter

Some people just dont pay the same high money for a card from a direct person versus an auction house and also this applies of BIN versus auction.....man looks like i agree with Bobby on this


its almost like the lower bids (hopefully from unique bidders and non shilled) validate the price.......but you can pretty much buy every BIN right now and put those same cards at auction a week later and be certain to lose more than 20% even before ebay fees..i dont think people will disagree with that......many BINs have been listed for months if not years with impacts the perception of some BINs.

if you win every PWCC auction, and resell with PWCC the next month and you are not shlling, i think you lose far less than if you did that with BINs listed on ebay....but who really knows

not all were overpriced
 

I generally steer clear of the high priced stuff so I don't know what's happening up there, but us little guys can still find decent deals. Based on VCP pics a few of these were purchased recently so whoever tried to flip them didn't do too hot. Here are the five cards I bought from PWCC on Sunday:

I paid $100, VCP $115 ($130, $111, $122, $164)
I paid $76, VCP $101 ($125, $130, $227, $87)
I paid $96, VCP $108 ($76, $127, $119, $124)
I paid $66, VCP $88 ($110, $92, $130, $63)
I paid $60, VCP $80 ($100, $68, $105, $76)

unless you have a kardashian-esque butt..YES...a shit ton is more than a butt-load!

As others have said, this is one of the huge incentives why folks shill: basically to generate a realized price sold, where people (mistakenly) believe that the market for that card is moving higher. You can be a nonpaying bidder for that item, but it will still show up on VCP and in the items sold list on ebay. You can have a BIN at a lower price than the card you just shilled up, and buyers will eat it up.

Saying that, I don't think all of the recent items on this PWCC auction was the result of shilling. (full disclosure: I have consigned with PWCC in the past, but I did not consign anything in their current auction.) Since I collect Ruth and Gehrig cards, those are the cards that I tend to follow most. Recently, a buyer came to me from ebay and asked for a private sale where he purchased a large chunk of the Ruth cards that I had for sale. He told me that he has started to collect the Ruth Master set. I then noticed by his feedback score that he also won something like 2/3 of the Ruth cards that were sold in the current PWCC auction. Therefore, although he is showing a high bid % w/ PWCC, he is legit.

I think in general, the card market is thin. If you have a couple of deep pocketed buyers who are collecting a set at the same time, the prices for those cards will spike. However, often times, when they finish their set (or they lose focus and decide to sell it) then the prices for that set will drop. So sometimes, it's all about being lucky in having the right buyers just at the time that you want to sell your cards.

Ah......but what is greater a metric butt load or imperial butt load?

right I agree its like the stock market...its about timing......there are a lot of non-PWCC sellers on ebay that do a lot of shady things....buy from themselves and then cancel the sale etc......go ahead and try to buy your own card with PWCC and see how it goes, its much easier to have two accounts that you are the buyer and seller I would think...basically, I would worry more about non pwcc accounts more..

heck I bought a 1953 mantle on ebay at auction from a non pwcc seller for about 100 or so less than what I thought it would go for..and then he cancelled the sale and refunded my money...I never had that happen with pwcc where I bought an item and then it was cancelled..

That's where you check out the sellers feedback. A reliable seller would never do such a thing. I sold a card once when Ebay had their glitches where no one could view their auctions. I sold a $1,000 card for around $700 during that time. The winning buyer proceeded to flip the card for the $1,100 just two months later. A reliable seller has no problem losing money.

Anyone that values their time, is NOT looking at BINS. 98% of BINS are sellers trolling for bidiots.

While I agree there are a lot of overpriced BIN's in the 707/Dean's card pricing world, there are actually very many reasonably priced BIN's as well. A little thing called competition has people selling things while they are jockeying each other to be the lowest priced seller. I sell BIN's and mine are nowhere near the stratosphere level.

If you remember not too long ago, a seller sold a George Brett rookie card for WAYYYYY under market value and I got snatched up within minutes. So there are deals to be had.

You can thank Ebay, sniping, and unrealistic expectation of buyers for the lack of auctions on Ebay, which has lead to the overabundance of BIN's on there. Too many sellers losing their shirts, while most of them can't afford to lose anything.

WE NEED TO REMEMBER...AS IT SEEMS MANY HAVE FORGOTTEN...THAT THIS IS A "VINTAGE" BOARD...and many of us...in fact most of us could not give a F&ck about george brett rookie bins...LETS COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES here...take it elsewhere!

Uhhh...why the anger?? We are still talking about cards? Since when did a 1952 Topps Mantle card NOT be a vintage card. Even a George Brett rookie card is 41 years old (I am unsure why I am even defending this, as it what just an example of the deals that can and do still exist under the BIN format).

Your anger is misplaced my friend. Take a deep breath. Relax. It's just cardboard. No matter what year it is!

The front (main) page of the board is generally for Pre-WWII baseball cards. That is what the title says anyway. The closer to that, imo, the less off topic a thread is. But if it's not pre-war II baseball card talk it is technically off topic on the main page. There are other sections for Post war etc.....

"Pricing error, it happens daily"

Disagree. I mostly look at BINs. Just grabbed something a month ago I could easily flip for $750-$1000 profit, if I wanted to.

I disagree as well. And the thread was about PWCC, who sells all kinds of cards, not just T206's. Someone chimed in about the lack of good BIN's, so I just posted an example and got blasted. Business as usual.

i apologize for my overreaction...rough morning.

I am not denying that shilling happens in some PWCC auctions (and Probstein and many random eBay sellers as well). It is obvious from looking at the bid history that there is some shady bidding going on at times.

But I think PWCC gets the prices he does because of how much visibility he has. He has just under 6,000 followers and still starts auctions at 99 cents on a site where auctions have greatly diminished in recent years. Is there any other card seller on eBay with anything close to 6,000 followers?

I have never consigned anything to PWCC, so I don't have an agenda from that standpoint. But he has so many followers because he has amazing stuff in all of his auctions. Almost every time he runs an auction, I see cards that I never even knew existed or rarely see up for auction.

Eddie Sm*th

There are some great bargain BINS (sorry couldn't resist) but they cluster around the cards with high pops, which will be postwar mainstream. Hell I picked up a huge card on my list the other night for what I thought was a great bargain via BIN. If the seller actually ships and the card is as advertised I will be very pleased. I was so surprised to see the price that I actually checked the PSA certification, which I have never done before.

But I digress.

Oddly enough for N54 all sides are a bit right in this one. PWCC and Probstein are shill bidding havens. No doubt of that. Honest consignors are there too. Some of the honestly sold items do fetch great prices because they have strong mailing lists and good advertising and like it or not they do drive eyes to their offerings. At the same time there is as much cheating there as a bazaar in Teheran. The buzzwords really are watch your ass in these auctions. I bid in them as I did in the other bad ones with eyes wide open.

Bobby, next time just replace the words "George Brett rookie card" (or any other vintage or modern card) with "T206 rare back," and you'll be good. ;)

LOL....sounds good......

Some of my best purchases are from BINs. I've bid on and won some PWCC auctions, and even one or two Probstein auctions.

It's good to know, then, that any time I have too good a day or feel too good about my life, I can log onto Net54 and remind myself that I'm a complete fool, or bidiot. This board keeps me grounded.

Just my opinion, no disrespect. Looks like you found the 2% that are priced correctly. I do find it ironic that not one BIN lover on this thread has posted a link to these fabulously under priced BIN's. very telling....

You want links to UNDER priced BIN's or NORMAL priced BIN's?? Or SEVERLY under priced BIN's?? Give me some parameters and I will be happy to oblige (provided the links haven't timed out)....

I would have, but apparently they were 'pricing errors'

Not gonna proclaim "fabulously under priced", but definitely feel this was a solid buy at $275, especially given a creased BVG4 sold for $390 a week later and that I had a 4x bid bucks promotion when I clicked buy.

Pardon the postwar example, but it's the best priced BIN I still have in my purchase history, and figure it prooves the point as effectively as prewar. I'm with the others who have found good BIN and BIN OBO deals. I'd guess at least 1/4 of my buys come via well priced BIN.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141888112445...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Also happy with these recent BIN, both coupled with 5x bid bucks promotions..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172074685816...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361434076697...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

... And the obligatory Brett rookie... Errrrrr, T206 print oddity

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371519156603...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201493708764...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The above may not necessarily be steals, but most/all are prices I'd have happily paid at auction.

BTW-- revising my earlier 1/4 estimate.. Actually 11 of my most recent 15 eBay purchases have come via BIN, and been accompanied by 3-5x bid buck promotions.

BIN's can be had you just have to be diligent and know your cards. I hit BINs every now and then, not uncommon at all. I just now picked these up....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161976694968...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Yes, I've otten some nice BINs but only from obsessive checking (and being a freelancer at home all day). Two of my best ever buys were two t206 SL Hindus PSA 5s that I got for half their value (or even better). Of course, when I got them, I was about ready to quit checking BINs! So you need to score something every few months to make it seem worth it...

Totally agree. I have dry spells but then a few little ones here and there keep me going.....and every several months I might hit a really good score.

this was a bin i thought was fair!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121763224574

shameless plug, but red-zone has some tremendous prices for cards*.

i could list several BINs from them that would be considered steals, however i see them on ebay and then go to his site where they are discounted another 10% or so...

* in no way associated w/ them and never even met the guy/guys that run it.

I got this as a buy it now for what I thought was a good price.
http://photos.imageevent.com/mhgt/ho...TTT%20T204.jpg

i bet u did!

apparently some people actually want to "sell" cards!

Others just have a 'museum'

laughing hard!

I didn't think we BIN fans would have the burden of proof in State v. Bidiots, ;) but since we are sharing: my best card is a well centered '33 Goudey Gehrig PSA 6.5 (posted in another thread) that I picked up for roughly the SMR price between 6 and 7. Not a "steal" but considering that a less well centered 7 just sold at auction for more than $2k more, I'm happy with the price.

The sellers I find reasonable (not meant to be a complete list) are: bbcinv, omegalm1, and Cooperstown (I forget their actual name). Anyway, I've found with 5 minutes of research you can likely reach the seller directly and get a better price through a direct sale.

I find it ironic when I see cards at reasonable prices and look at the cards, it has been one that I sold at a .99 cent auction and went really cheap! That has happened on more than one occasion. I guess that means BIN's are the way to go instead of .99 cent auctions (unless your name is PWCC or Probstein).

I gotta say it, from somebody who has handled a few Ramly's over the years, that Burkett with the TTT back just about takes the cake. If I had seen it first as a BIN, Jesse would be sitting in Florida now enjoying the sun. Well done, and it shows some BIN's present value to collectors who have the patience.

Agree on all those guys. They aren't discounting, but they are not at all prohibitive, and all will gladly give you a solid and fair assessment of the cards. Dave Kjeer (omegalm1) in particular has told me many times a card is not for me, very straight shooter.

I would add Amerlegends (Mark Rubin) to the list of people in this category.