As previously stated, the issue isn't about the amount he sold it for and whether it was higher or lower than we agreed upon. The issue is that he and I agreed that I would pay him $58 and wait until today to pay him. He later stated that he forgot to increase the price on his eBay auction and meanwhile it sold overnight. Had he told me this originally, I wouldn't have said anything publicly about it. But for him to say after we had an agreement..

"Sorry Craig....the Koufax sold on another site last night. I don't pull cards down until I actually have the money in hand. If it is any consolation, it sold for more money...I was actually wholesaling the cards for Net54 members."

...well, the whole thing just hit me wrong. After hearing the whole story from him, I do believe he made an honest mistake but his communications to me were not what I would expect from someone who has a great reputation as a seller. I do accept his apology, but still feel that card should be mine! :)

Oh well, anyone have a 1960 Topps Koufax PSA 6 that they want to sell to me for $58? LOL!

Craig from Texas

I think once someone has agreed to buy a card it should be taken down from ebay. I don't think it's right to insist that the person pay first. Just me.

I learned a valuable lesson in this whole ordeal. I am sorry for everything.

You get charged 9% Ebay fees Jason? They are charging me 10%. I thought they charged EVERYONE 10%? If you are paying 9%, care to share? Every little bit helps, especially with the profit margins are so low....

The Ebay fee was $6.50, and the Paypal fee was $2.19, so I actually netted $56.31 compared to the $58 Craig was going to pay me. That is irrelevant though. I would much rather sell it to a board member than let Greedbay nickle and dime me to death like they have for years. I can spend a whole different thread just talking about all I see wrong with that company.

Same shady crap happened to me in February by a seller on these boards, only difference is I didn't receive nearly the support Craig Parker's getting.

Bottom line is if you agree with someone on a price remove the listing everywhere else.

In fact, the seller should contact the ebay buyer and explain that the listing was still up in error and that they'll get a full refund if they already paid and complete the transaction with the original buyer, Craig Parker in this instance.

A few cents either way is no big deal. I was just pointing out what seemed like fuzzy math.

I have an ebay store and I believe I'm only getting charged 9%. I may be wrong.

If a few cents either way is no big deal, why bring it up in the first place?

Yes, you're correct. Store owner's, in general, get charged 9%. Some have special deals with eBay and pay less. 10% is what non-store owners pay.

"In fact, the seller should contact the ebay buyer and explain that the listing was still up in error and that they'll get a full refund if they already paid and complete the transaction with the original buyer, Craig Parker in this instance."


I agree 100%

Craig Parker wasn't the first to pay. We had a verbal agreement. Like someone else said, this board has alot of renegers. I myself have had more than my fair share of them. Until the payment has been made, what am I supposed to do? As I said earlier, usually I take measures to prevent that. That didn't happen. Maybe if some of the board members (I am not referring to you Craig) did a better job at following through.....just a thought.

You are right. I wasn't the first to pay. We had an agreement and you broke that agreement by choosing to sell to someone else. Don't say you didn't have a choice because you forgot to raise the price. Mistakes happen and sometimes a person can increase their already good reputation in their actions following a mistake. After hearing the comments from others, although my opinion is biased, I agree you should have contacted the eBay buyer and explained what happened. It is my belief you acted in the way you did to protect your 100% feedback rating with eBay and to hell with me since this transaction is not EBay related. But of course, I could be wrong but that's how I, and possibly others reading this lengthy thread, feel.

Craig from Texas

Sounds like you just admitted to reneging on a deal you had agreed to. Not a good thing to do if your reputation on this site is important to you. Look what happened to Joey F. for reneging on deals. I will definitely avoid your sales and a B/S/T ban may be in order.

edit: I posted this thinking I was on the first page. It's still my opinion, but I missed a lot of further info.

A verbal deal is not binding in a court of law. I didn't renege on anything. I can tell Rob Lifson I want to give him $5 million for his T206 Wagner card. Until the payment is in his hand, I haven't done squat.

So you're saying your word means nothing... Wow.

But wasn't this agreement 'in writing'? It was not verbal, it was typed. It is written/typed so your argument is null. So, being that you had a written/typed agreement, by definition, yes, you reneged on it.

And to say that a verbal deal is not binding in law is a bit ridiculous. Certainly it is in some cases. It's easy to renege when you are hiding behind a monitor.

Don't blame Craig for being angry. I know I would be.

It seems like an honest mistake. It's not like Robert reneged because he was offered more money from someone else. I have dealt with Robert, and I can say he is an honest and helpful person.

Maybe ship Craig a $10 common or something from his wantlist to try to smooth things over?

Let's play WHAT IF - What if the following morning Craig decides he doesn't want the card? What am I gonna do, force him to send me the money?? Say "You agreed to the deal - you have to pay!!!"....of course not....I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. All the naysayers really need to understand both sides of the fence here.

I don't know why everyone is jumping on Bobby.. It's clear that this was just an unfortunate mistake. It happens on these forums every day.

The best way to avoid these type of things would be to pay for items immediately.

I feel that this is part of the risk of being the seller and it's definitely going to happen. However, you should not have agreed to the terms of the deal if you weren't going to follow them. That's the point I am trying to make. You agreed to terms, but without communicating, you had clauses in your agreement that were not explained.

It's like going to the car dealership and signing a paper to buy a car the next day. The dealership cannot sell the car to anyone else, but the buyer has the option to back out. It's an AGREEMENT made. It's all just part of the business.

Once more, you had THREE buyers; CParker, eBayer, and ASC (which is as good as money in hand). So to say that you were afraid of not getting your money seems a bit exaggerated.

Thank you - this is all I'm going to say on the matter. Craig and I worked out a deal for a card. We had a verbal agreement he would pay me the next day. During the middle of the night, the card sold and was paid for on Ebay. I forgot to take it down. An unfortunate situation, and I am sorry that it happened, but my hands are tied. I have been on the receiving end of situations like this as well. And yes, while not happy, I was understanding. There will be other cards. I am sorry this happened. If you choose not to deal with me, I am sorry you feel that way. I hope you change your mind in the future. For those of you who do choose to deal with me, I promise to do everything in my power to help you out or make sure you are satisfied. That is what I can offer.

I agree, had cparker paid immediately this wouldnt have been a problem. However... cparker and bobby agreed that he could pay the next morning. Had that not been part of the agreement, then yes, the card is for the taking.

It's as if he put the card on lay-away for 12 hours. If the agreement was that the card was his, awaiting payment the next morning, he shouldnt have to worry about it being sold anywhere else.

Steve,

I couldn't have said it any better than what you said. I appreciate everyone's take on this unfortunate matter. I think we all have our opinions on who is at fault. Some say I should have paid right away to avoid this which is true. However, we did have an agreement. He reneged. He could have corrected his mistake. He chose not to. That's what makes me most upset. I've been in the sales business for years and when I make a mistake, I do what I can to make it right, whether it is offering a discount on a future purchase or whatever. Make the customer happy. In this case, he could have done a little research and see that I have a huge wantlist of 828 cards (www.mytoppscards.com) and maybe he could have offered me a similar card of equal value for the same price. I mean, I almost expected him to do something. Well, that's all I can say on this. It is what it is. I hope we all can learn from this and be better for it.

Craig from Texas

That isn't correct. Until the deal is funded, every dealership I know (and I know many, I used to own a company called Dealer Advertising Solutions, LLC) will take the money from the first customer that comes up with it, agreement or not.

If you want to see this for yourself, walk into a dealerhsip, yank the salesman's chain for a while and then tell him you'll be back tomorrow to buy a certain car. When you get home, look on the dealership's website and see if that card is still listed or if they removed it in order to hold it for you. I guarantee that it will still be listed. Dealerships DO NOT remove their cars from website inventory until the deal is funded.

And to add to that, sometimes dealerships will leave cars on their inventory website even after the car is sold to generate more leads (especially if it's a hot car). Customer comes in looking for that car, car was sold three weeks ago and the salesman (well, any good salesman) flips them to something else.

I have two issues-

One- the policy of having to receive the money to count as done is imo way off (not to mention its not listed on your sales thread here). So basically what you are saying is if we agree to a deal and I mail you the money, if someone pays you via paypal you are going to cancel our deal and send me my money back? If thats the case I would imagine you will lose a lot of potential customer here.

I always treat the BSW here: when a deal is agreed upon that I will give the buyer a reasonable amount of time to complete the payment, really no different than ebay or any auction house. You really fail this and maybe it was just a mistake this time around but you keep stating its all about receiving the money first, if you are set on that it should be in your bsw listings and count me out for any future business. That said I think if any seller has a sale and holds the card and someone fails to pay in a reasonable time they should be outed here to save others from the same issue.

Second, it has happened to me on ebay where I cant find a card that just sold in my store and I had to cancel the ebay sale, In those cases no feedback can be left, the transaction is canceled because nothing was sent.

I know your a good guy Rob but when you made a choice to honor the 2nd sale which was ebay over the first, imo that was a bad decision. You also haven't really came out and said what you would do the next time it happens?

As the seller, you have to get the buyer to AGREE to cancel the sale. Good luck with that. Even if he does agree to canel the sale, yes, absolutely feedback can still be left. A cancellation of the sale does not take away the buyers right to leave feedback. I think that is a common misconception.

My advice (for what it's worth):

- Bobby, I feel like you made an honest mistake but at what cost are you willing to let this go on? You're in the business of selling cards and this site is a big market. I know Craig has a big want-list of cards so maybe you could work out another deal with him to help check something else off his list to show everyone that you're willing to fix a problem.

- Craig, I feel like you got the raw end of this deal but if Bobby is willing to work with you on your want-list stuff then maybe you could agree that this was all an honest mistake and hold no hard feelings.

We could all feel good knowing that Craig got something out of the deal AND that Bobby is willing to work with his customers to make them happy in the event that something like this were to happen again.

Or you could not listen to me and keep arguing so I'll have something to read while I kill time at work.

Maybe my analogy was bad. I'll accept that. I just always assumed that when I left my $500 check to 'hold' the car til the next morning, that that was an agreement that it wasn't going to be sold to anyone else until I came back on the agreed time. Maybe I shouldn't make uncommunicated inferences either... :rolleyes:

I've said all I can say for this thread. In the end, I don't like the sales tactic that an agreement can be breached if money is not exchanged ASAP.

Buyer does have an opportunity to renege on his offer, and that would suck for the seller (what Bob was afraid of). But in the same case, the seller can renege the card and leave the buyer without a card (poor Craig). But as the seller, I feel as if they/we/it/whomever assumes those risks, not the buyer.

We aren't really arguing. More like debating/venting.....this thread has gotten way more hits than I ever though possible. I don't even want to sell the cards on here anymore.

Po-tay-toe... po-tah-toe

You are a freaking nut :). I am not a lawyer but I believe A verbal contract is a binding contract on anything except certain sales.....real estate and maybe a few other things. But just because we let folks back out of "a" deal on this board doesn't make it the way all contracts are. You might want to look up what constitutes a contract, I am not a lawyer, but verbal contracts are enforceable in most states and most situations. Proving them can be an issue though....

Not taking sides here, but I do this a lot...
 

Not sure how I missed this thread earlier, but in reading it now I do disagree with this statement:

I use my iPad while traveling all the time, especially for Net54 surfing. However, I NEVER use it for financial transactions (I don't trust it for that).

In the last week I've told four Net54 members that I'd pay them "tomorrow from a secured computer" (including one last night who I paid today) and no one has ever had an issue with it. If they felt they couldn't wait that long then I would understand and would move on with no hard feelings.

Just my two cents, but there are sometimes very good reasons why someone can't pay at that very moment.

Point taken.....I wrote that statement when I was all worked up. I have since calmed down.

+1 here

That's fine. That is your prerogative. Heaven forbid if you make a mistake though.

I am not a lawyer and the only exposure I have had to contract law was in a business law class I took in college but even I know what you had here was a verbal contract to sell this card to the Net54 buyer.

If there is an offer (there was in this case) and an acceptance of the offer (again, there was in this case) then you have a contract. Written or verbal....it doesnt matter...you had a contract. I suggest you brush up on your law before making a dumb statement such as this.

If that is the case, how come I can never force the renegers on here to pay me when they agree to buy a card??? It is a contract, according to you....

Over 2200 views. Niiiiiiccccccceeeeeee

Yea...it is quite a bit. And to think, it all started with a simple deal of me wholesaling some cards off.

To be honest, I havn't even read the thread.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TULF4DCZZ3...d5-300x196.jpg

enough
 

Leon,
Please enough with this crap. The deal is over he will just keep on going everytime someone eggs him on. This isnt what the B/S/T should be all about. How many views it takes to see who is with him and whos against him. Please lock it up and tell Bobby boy to move on!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You have a remedy for the renegers but it is called small claims court. Obviously it typically isnt worth anyone's time, money or effort to go this route.

I am not sure why I am responding to this as several of your responses shows how in my opinion....ignorant you can be. I am not sure you are making these statements as a way to stir the pot around here or just draw attention to yourself. Since I have seen your sorry act on other boards I am going with you need the attention.

Wow!! I don't quite know how to respond to that. You name call and resort to slander and expect me to not respond?? Just sit in a corner and let you (who I have no idea who you are - no offense) sit there and talk crap about me?? Well, I am taking the high road here and not responding in kind to you. But that is a pretty cheap shot if you ask me.

For the record, the correct term would be libel.

Thanks Sean....I always get the two confused.

Just so everyone knows... This seller did not make a mistake, he is out to make the most $ that he can. He has the Clemente listed for his asking price on here and I made him an offer the first day he listed them. He PM'd me two days ago saying that I can have the card for my offer price, I declined. He then PM'd me last night saying that I can buy the card for $40, and that it's still the cheapest price out there. People like this guy irritate the hell out of me.

I am confused. Was your offer the full asking price? If it was not the full asking price, it was not a contract and it was his prerogative to consider it for as long as he wanted and your prerogative to decline if he took more than a reasonable amount of time to accept the offer. The goal of selling cards is typically to make the most money you can. Here, the dispute does not appear to have anything to do with making the most money possible as it seems to essentially have been a wash.