yesh
 

certainly not my feeling on many levels - but we are each entitled to an opinion here. I am aware that a segment of the collecting community will pay more for a PSA graded card in many categories - I don't think it's because PSA is "very strict". If collecting graded cards - allign yourself with the one whose grading standards - perhaps more appropriately parameters - most closely mirror your own. Frustration is easy to understand where you talk about sending raw cards to be graded yourself. If it's because you don't feel accomplished at grading your cards that's one thing - it comes with experience and is never a science and always open to interpretation. Grading is just an application of terms to describe the degrees to which a card deviates from that of a perfect example. All of the grading companies have a different system and do differing amounts of due diligence. The problem with cards and paper in general is that often there are flaws not easily discernible with a casual glance or even a loupe. The problem can be compounded because the major companies don't specifically address to the consumer what caused the grade they are given. One can factor in obvious faults and cross-reference with the company "standards" things like creases, tilt, corner wear, stains, and centering but the onus still falls on the consumer. For me - I prefer to purchase my cards in person whether graded or raw. It's not always possible so in the cyberverse I am more comfortable buying a card already graded than raw - something one can expect to have to pay a bit more for - as they risk has already been executed by the seller. I am suspending for the moment issues like WHO is making the submissions and the level of redress they have with the grading company as well as the percentage of "mistakes". I'm just a little guy and I have to believe the big guys get better attention. I continue to collect graded and raw cards depending on the set and my grader of choice up to this point has been SGC...........

no guarantees whether written or implied
henr.y moses

I hear what you're saying, but it is a positive opinion and I could be wrong, but Leon wasn't as harsh on this sort of stuff. IMO if this merits a full name, then pretty much everything does.


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David, you may be right. I probably am confused as this is new to me. Here is the email from Michael Viola of PSA in response to my email asking if the marking on the back was what brought my grade to a 2, in addition to how I marked the qualifiers box.

"Everything seems to be pretty accurate with what you stated in your previous e-mail, however on our PSA card submission forms, you have the option to mark “No Qualifiers” but you would not have to notate that you would like “Qualifiers”. With that said, even if you were to have notated “No Qualifiers” on your submission form, we would have graded your cards with a (MK) qualifier for Marks because that is one of the qualifiers that we notate on the label regardless, unlike (OC) for off-center. I hope this makes sense and is of some help to you"

So after re-reading that I am still confused and could use some help. So a mark is going to result in an MK regardless of what I checked pertaining to qualifiers?

So if you do not mark anything on your submission form, PSA will grade any card with a qualifier if need be. If you mark "No Qualifiers" on the submission form, PSA will grade the card without using qualifiers and in this case, the mark on the back brings the grade down to a "2"...and nothing higher because of the mark. If you peruse eBay and look at some of the cards with qualifiers, you will notice cards that are PSA 8(OC) and if they didn't include the "OC", the card would probably be around a "6".

The Wagner would have probably received a PSA 4(MK) if you chose to accept a qualifier.

Here is a person giving an opinion about a company and for all we know it could be an employee at PSA that is telling us that PSA is more strict and you get more money for selling their cards.

Very true Andy. I guess I'm just used to the way it has been for a while now. It doesn't bother me either way...just seemed like a harmless post, but you bring good points to the table.


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No, some qualifiers you can never get rid of, even if you request no qualifiers in your PSA submission. I believe the latest email that Luke shared from PSA confirms this point. You cannot remove MK or MC qualifiers even if you request no qualifers from PSA.

Correct, so PSA is saying that the card was not downgraded by what seemed to be a mark. That is, PSA determined that was not a mark on the card. Of course, they could have downgraded a card if they believed it was a stain, but I don't think it would be downgraded to a 2. My guess is that PSA believed that there was some paper loss on the card. light surface wrinkling that's hard to see in a scan, or this was a misgrade.

That's interesting...didn't know they include the (MK) qualifier no matter what.

IMO it seems to be a misgrade...a small wrinkle wouldn't kill the grade this bad.

MC isn't a qualifier that can't be removed according to an email I got asking about the highest grade a card can get with a MC qualifier:

I'm not one to question PSA's policies but I've had several experiences to the contrary. For example, I have cracked cards with (MK) qualifiers, resubmitted (requesting no qualifiers) and each time they have been returned a grade lower without the qualifier. I have also submitted cards with very obvious writing (again requesting no qualifiers) that were graded without the (MK) notation and a numeric grade (not just as Authentic). Lastly, I have submitted cards with obvious marks that I requested to simply be graded as "Authentic" and PSA did not qualify the "Authentic" grade. Maybe not perfectly contradictory experiences but IMO the policy in question is not strictly followed.

Edited to add that I believe I misspoke on the second example above. I went back and reviewed those instances and in each case the grade was "Authentic" -- supporting what others have said that PSA will not qualify an Authentic grade. Sorry for the confusion.

Just resubmit it will probably come back a 5.

MK
 

I have NEVER been allowed to get a card to have no qualifier if it had ink or pencil on it when requesting no qualifiers and i have been submitting since 1993. They are not supposed to grade a card without the qualifier for MC or MK and surely they would normally drop it more than 1 grade. Did you remove the mk? otherwise i honestly think you either got lucky or are full of it? Also They do not qualify cards graded authentic. only numerical grades 1 to 9 can receive qualifiers.

Thanks again for everyone's input. The card should arrive today, and may be for sale, lol.

The only thing that matters here is that you've been submitting to PSA since '93....I'm sorry you had to admit that :( I feel your pain


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Here's a little card with a mark and no MK qualifier: http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2012/2.html

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...em_21653_1.jpghttp://www.robertedwardauctions.com/...em_21653_2.jpg

I most certainly don't work for PSA. My post was based on my personal experience, which I suppose could be considered a small sample size. I'll keep the "opinion of companies" thing in mind for future posts, though.

I'm just curious as to why that would matter at all?

Each card should stand on its own despite how many cards you have sent in previously and/or if you've ever sent in a single card prior to. If you are implying otherwise then that conveys a message that goes against the very reason for grading... "hey good customer, we'll bump all your grades...".

The point he is making is that he has been submitting cards to PSA for a very long time, and their entire policy during that time was to put the MK qualifier on the flip regardless of whether the submission was specified as "No qualifiers." Obviously, PSA has made mistakes in forgetting the qualifier like in the Wagner in the above post, but my correspondence w/ PSA has also been that they are always SUPPOSED to use the MK or MC qualifier if the card has these attributes.

Wagner card in the above post (while pretty nice in terms of color and otherwise) also appears to be MC on the bottom.

You're right on re the damage, Bill. Back in the late '90's, I submitted what was clearly a NrMt or MrMt-Mt '70 Topps Reggie Jackson to PSA, and it came back as a "5," presumably due to a dinged corner which it most definitively did not have when I mailed it off.

Regards,

Larry

AS per usual
 

they made an exception for Honus, should they no but they often do. just like many wagners are a grade higher than they really should be.I have seen some really ugly psa 2s. Every rule has an exception which proves the rules, lol. You can not opt out of mk for pen or pencil they even stated that on the email. you also can not opt out of MC. If a card is both mc and mk they will either return no charge unholdered or give it a 1 mk from what i was told. I have submitted 10 thousand+ cards to PSA i do not just pull my responses from my rear end.
Not sure where you got some implication of better grades il Padrino whomever you are, but i was implying i probably understand their protocol more than someone who has rarely or never dealt with them. Your response was asinine. Plus in 22 years i have asked them many questions and already received many answers a newbie would not know. Your implication was both insulting and ignorant.
Leon his name should be in the post.

Nothing like getting mad at a post from 21 months ago :rolleyes:

Only just saw it
 

do you have a time machine so i can go back and see it earlier?

I'm really sorry that happened, Larry. That's the kind of horror story that has me paranoid about sending my cards in for grading. You can take every precaution imaginable in packaging and shipping the card. But you can't control for the person(s) on the other end, and no matter what their credentials or experience may be in handling cards, it only takes one lapse in concentration to ruin your prized possession.

Having seen some of the spectacular (and rare) examples you all have in your collections, it's clear there are cards for which there is no replacement. You might get the monetary value of the card, but some cards are priceless. And when you consider how these beauties have managed to make it a century, or a century and a half without any major damage, that's frightening and sad.

I have answered questions that were probably 10 yrs old before :). I prefer to start new threads but old ones pop up after 14 yrs.....his name is Danie.l Elsas.s per the rules