I could be wrong, but it seems like most of the 206 freaks that come up for auction, end up in the pick-up thread. All rare cards have a thin market. What's interesting to me is that most of the market for these freaks seem to be board members that aren't particularly private with what they are buying. They all seem to be friends, and I'm sure they bid each other up! The freaks are an interesting anomaly, and the group of collectors after them are interesting too!

I don't personally see it, but maybe these printing error cards are just beginning to reach their potential (in terms of dollar value).

Such "freaks" are even more coveted in stamp and coin collecting, with a far greater premium paid for most examples. Here's one of the more famous ones...

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/Ho...rticleID=50832


Perhaps Baseball Error Cards are finally starting build some steam and catch up? I believe that these anomalies will become more valuable/desirable with each year that passes (and may not always be so thinly traded).

Good point.

I guess it's just part of the evolution of the hobby?! I mean why are collectibles...collectible? Because most were discarded...played with...used and abused?! These freaks and miscues should have been thrown away...but weren't...so while this stuff was viewed in the past as the garbage it was intended to be...it survived...so now it is very collectible.

Def not my cup of tea...but it is what it is!!!

If you have a 1953 Topps signed Satchel Paige or Jackie Robinson, I'd be happy to trade you a signed T206 for it.

Autographs are not everyone's cup of tea, but their interest level goes beyond signed T206 cards.

Printing anomolies in baseball cards spike wicked high on T206 -- why not other sets?

The word is "sexy". plain and simple, T206 cards are sexier than any other set. you can't deny this, as you are a T206 "nut" yourself...you know what i mean. can't fully explain it, but the set has mucho sex appeal.

Here's one way to look at it... you personally have offered $2500+ for any signed T206 not in your collection. Hypothetically, you'd pay over $2500 for a signed Harry Pattee card (likely much more), but if Mr. Pattee had signed a rare program or a vintage ticket, you would never pay that much for his signature. Part of it, as already mentioned, is the mystique of T206, and the crazy people that collect her. :)

If I couldn't resell it, I wouldn't. :D:D I think the value is principally social, largely driven by this forum and people talking each other up. Just my .02

I can follow y'all to a degree, of course. But I'd pay well over $1,000 for a signed E92 or E95 of anyone. Heck, I love my signed T201 collection.

It's parallel, but not the same thing.

Errors & pre-production ( scraps, tests, prototypes ) generally carry a hefty premium in most mass-produced collectible fields - stamps, coins, records, toys, books, etc. Why not cards?

Errors, tests and prototypes (proofs) have long carried a premium. I thinks it's a natural evolution that scraps would follow.

Well....
 

I got halfway through this thread and couldn't read anymore....


I will put my reputation on the line here...

A card of such magnitude would bring 15 K plus in REA with more than 12 bidders at least....maybe 20 bidders...

I could care less what Scott, Peter, or any other hater would say....


Scott, your just pissed off you dumped them years ago for a song:eek:.....hurts, but pull up the the big boy pants and move on....

:)


Peace

JOHN VANDERBECK

Johhny, no need to get riled. Some of us value scraps and errors, some don't. If everyone wanted them I couldn't afford them. :D

Sean....
 

It BOTHERS me to no end.....

I have to read constant Griping about the of ignorant board members putting down cards they HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE ABOUT....:mad:

uhhhh....is this a wst????:D is this a bleed through???uhhhh...i'll give you $40 for it:p

DUH!!!

I'll take all of them for $45.00 each:D

SO I AGREE

SEND ME YOUR SCRAP!!!THEY ARE NO GOOD......THEY ARE WORTH ONLY PENNIES:p

email me and we can work something out:D.....



These test scraps don't deserve to be in any ignorant collectors possession


JOHN VANDERBECK







JOHN VANDERBECK



:mad:

:D:D:eek::D:D

I don't doubt your analysis at all.... what would this card have brought in REA 4 years ago? All I'm saying is that it seems the more recent bidding pool has driven it to that level, and it's not a ton of guys, it's a few here...

Matthew...
 

in all due respect, you have no clue about the market for these cards....

I have been getting blown up by collectors who didn't see the card, and they i'm sure would have gone balls to the wall, this card would have gone triple possibly.....find another one HA

YOU CAN"T

....and the "thin" market is quite "thickening" by the hour....I almost wish it wasn't occurring....these cards are well outta my reach now....I cannot afford the cards I love, yes it increases the value of my collection, but at this point I really don't care!!

I don't want to sell them(unless wags is around:D)



Jamie, I haven't heard from you......

I know that card would have went nuts if you joined!!!:)

Slightly OT...you guys watching these T206 Drums in Legendary?

Yep, good times.

I got my one freak T206 and that is all I really wanted to pay up for.

As for Goudey, there are probably a few around...

What did you pick up, Matt?

If anyone is in need of a nice graded Drum for 10k let me know...Ill even throw in a blank back of the same player. :D

Johnny...we know what's up :D

Error/proof/scrap collectors look at the set different and likely most wont get what we find so special that we will spend thousands to get the ALC junk....I respect that, to each there own. I have never had heart palpitations over a PSA 8...of anything or any other type.....but when I saw that back pic my heart was pounding.....I was nervous for days leading up to the closing. I watched it close as the underbidder and am still a bit upset. All part of the fun of the hunt.

We all likely have cards that do this to us, I sure hope everyone does and we should all respect that....thats the beauty of this hobby....so many types and ways to collect and equally so many different kinds of people...all connected by old cardboard. We are all a little crazy in our own little way.

Chris- don't sell yourself short...it's $12K w/ juice ;)

Johnny, I believe you, since you are the expert. I'm speaking from the outside looking in. I have been around long enough to see the price explode... It happened pretty recently. The price boom happened just as a few new collectors stepped in. I'm sure a few more have stepped in since.

The market takes a specialized eye so I ask you, Why is that card worth 3x more then this one:

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=21804

You've seen a lot of scrap, and that's great, but you also toss about huge numbers when discussing them. Since this is a discussion board, I'm discussing my thoughts about those numbers, and quite frankly - they are ridiculous. As far as 'big boy pants', you can take care of your own nether regions, and I'll take care of mine. Diapers, lederhosen - whatever turns you on - I won't say a word.

Matthew....
 

I really don't mean to get so upset when I have to read "scrap" bashing....

and the market for them....

Scott is a true hobby veteran, and knows better....I am disappointed how off he really is and why??:confused:


The Mc Graw scrap went SUPER cheap.....

I know who consigned it to REA, and the person expected at least 10 K for it, but it fell real short.....collectors have not even realized the significance of these types of "errors" , in the case of the McGraw, the "test" run of the sheet...actually, multiple sheets.....on the back of this scrap ......there are approx. 15 of these type floating around....an obvious sheet where as the printer was setting up the print runs/ filling ink wells/ aligning sheets/ ect...

printer grabbed the McGraw sheet, but only used the back.....these type, like the McGraw has the player runs horizontal on the sheets offset enough to "piece" together partial sheets....that's why these particular type of scrap are so interesting.....they are essentially "missing puzzle pieces" to the insight of the history/ print design of the sheets ....the clues are lost in time....the McGraw is part of that approx. 10 or so of this "missing " puzzle...Jamie owns 2, Dan owns one, Hank another, ect ect....I AM JEALOUS OF THESE because about 8 years ago, I lost 2 examples on ebay for $400.00 each.....another sickening loss of mine over the years.....anyway, McGraw ACTUALLY WENT FOR LESS THAN HALF OF WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE......


If you are following any kinds of T206 trends, thesere appreciating exponentially(RARE BACKs, WAGS, PLANK, RARITIES, ECT)...so essentially the same rates of growth apply to the anomalies....


as the collector interest in these particular rarities increase/so does demand/ supply is EXTREMELY short....like stated before, simple economics....there are like I said less that prob 15 like the McGraw.....


take for, example, upside down back(factory cut, not scrap).....much RARER THAN BL 460......'

YES


RARER than BL 460....they will catch up in pricing and exceed inmho as the advanced collector will yearn for SOMETHING different.....




phew...

the reason the McGraw went so cheap, there are a few of these seen over the years but the bidding for that card was Extremely weak......

BRAIN

printer used BOTH SIDES OF THE SCRAP SHEET(most scrap only have the overprints on one side if they are found) to set up the presses.....obviously multiple times both front and backwards and prob twenty or so different set ups for the piedy designated backs.....


after the sheet was abused by the printer, it was tossed aside showing all the battle scars.....inadventanly, the printer actually had created an "alternative" T206 sheet, which miraculously was salvaged either by a garbage picker, or someone at home when the sheet traveled home....


the sheet had survived much brutality to yield a virtually unique T206....unless ther are other survivors off the sheet, the brain is the only survivor from that pyschadelic sheet....



a diamond being produced out of a piece of coal might be a good analogy...


these are truly the future of T206 collecting inmho....


future looks bright

Thanks for the explanation, Johnny... So It's unique. It's the only example from it's sheet.

Did anyone get back scans of the rest of the cards? I see a couple in the bottom row that look like they might be hand cut.

Scott....
 

You were on your way to actually writing the book on these cards....I always, and still do, respect your opinion.....but over the years, you have basically "turned" on these types of cards....I can not figure out why/how:confused: since evening owning SOME HUGE CARDS such as the Downey overprint(iv been trying to pry that out of the current owners hands for a few years now).....The Dorner Multi Strike back, and countless other "Huge" scrap/ print anamolies....you know how rare some of these examples are, and the only way I can figure out the animosity toward them is the fact you sold yourself short on them and are having seller's remorse:confused: like in the case of you selling the bl 460's....it's no different, but you don't admit it, why?????????? that's why I said to pull up the big boy pants cause I can't take the scrap bashing from a hobby veteran....


I know Peter hates T206 altogether, so I let that alone:)

but you, I am quite confused that you are still down playing these after all these years???

I know these are all opinions, but if anyone knows about their rarity, it is you...

Johnny, it is all very confusing. Luckily, this is just a discussion forum where cardboard collectors toss their opinions around, so no one should lose too much sleep over any of it. My opinion is certainly just that - you could always prove me wrong by getting into a bidding war with one of the 'big boy pants' guys, and turning those numbers of yours into facts.

Matthew....
 

any time!! I will gladly try my best to explain why/how these were created and the particular rarity levels....which should directly reflect an approx. market value.....

YES!!!

BRAIN is a ONE of A kind T206(unless another Brain or player arises from that particular sheet salvaged from the garbage/print floor over a hundred years ago is amazing in itself:eek:....even is another does come to light, chances are the over prints will be different creating what I have termed "snowflake " scrap....meaning, each scrap is unique unto itself, even originating from the same sheet, they are cut/ struck / offset differently from card to card.....

creating even similar scrap to be unique:cool:

Scott....
 

I must appoligize for getting so defensive and sensitive about the scrap.....they are truly "misfits" and are mis understood....their rarity is shadowed by factory issued pre planned cards....these scraps are the abstract art anomalies created accidentally as you know and can be SUPER CONFUSING.....but you are one that can help advance the knowledge of them....

I have not been bidding on any because they are very sadly outta reach and it really is killing me.:o I would have loved to own/ or even bid on the Brain card.....I am very happy for the new owner....and am sorry Chris didn't get it....It took me years to find my Chance CYCLE front no name piedy back overprint....I LOVE THAT CARD....

sorry for my rants tonite!!

PLEASE GET BACK TO US SCOTT:)

Where in the world are you coming up with this stuff? Just because I think the numbers you throw around are rubbish, doesn't mean I have "animosity" toward printer scrap. That's about the weirdest logic I've seen from you yet.

Mathew....
 

Btw...

no other scrap in the lot...

I have devoted most of my collecting efforts to finding them.....If you ever want an opinion on a scrap, shoot me an email anytime....I will give you an honest opinion.....


LEON

has one of the best scraps, and what I call the ROSETTA T206......which even ties a Ghosted Young and the elusive brown OM....just a breathtaking card!! ties many backs together....even his card only has the multi strike on one side....btw...can you also feed my need for the Matty type I:)


Chris

I am still upset for you....I think that gem will come your way at the national;)

wish I was going.....Id buy scott a brew and everyone else


:)

PLEASE POST LEON

Scott...
 

:confused:I am a freak like the cards I collect:D

no one can predict what a card will go for at auction......but I have been pretty close on most;)...

hard to determine on one of a kinds......depends who shows up that day....

but I have felt you downplaying them for quite some time now....why:confused:

I know most are ignorant to them, but you have/had somewhat of a clue, what happened??:confused:

Johnny, the t206 printing process interests me. But if I didn't want to spend $500 on a piece of scrap ten years ago, why would I want to spend $5,000 for a similar card today? I owned examples of most scrap back then, studied them intently, and published a paper. Since then I haven't seen too much new in that area. I've learned more since then, but acquiring additional knowledge did not require that I spend loads of money - that's mostly due to all the new T206 collectors who have joined the hobby and shared their research with us.

It's a difference of opinion, but if I have $6,000 to spend on a collectible item, and can choose between either the T206 scrap in question, or some of the other things in my collection, it's really a no-brainer.

This thread was about a particular scrap and it's value. I stated my opinion - I have no earthly idea how that turned into you thinking I felt "animosity" toward scraps. I still think they are interesting - I just don't place the same value on them as you and some others. I have been offered pretty good money for a couple of 'error' T206 cards in my collection, and I turned down one offer because I thought it would be stupid for the collector to pay me that much.

I have to admit, I do have a fondness for that stamp :)

There is a synapse in your brain that isn't connecting correctly: it is taking my disagreement with you over the value of scraps and equating that to me hating scraps. It's really quite a weird logic leap, but I've explained it now in several posts and you aren't getting it.

By the way - no animosity toward you either. I think it's great that you have such a passion for these cards. We should team up as 'card guys' and go attack the game-used collectors. It would be healthier for us.

Perez....
 

;)is hitting it on the head....these will mimic the coin collecting parallel anomalies and stamp error values....just took a little time to catch on with collectors...

Scott,

Of course I respect your opinion.....and again sorry for getting so heated, but I think you do understand my logic....My firing synaps at this level do go nuts when I do hear any scrap getting a bad rap:)......

stop the scrap hating!:D

If I was joining you and Chris at the national, I 'd have you hunt me down a few of these beauties that are flying under the radar....

maybe you still can hunt for me Scott there??;)

I have to say, over the last few years, I also thought the numbers Johnny was throwing around (5K, 8K, 10K, etc) were ridiculous...BUT, we've seen first hand recently with the sales of these scraps/errors that he knew what he was talking about. the prices realized are insane...but they are legit.

Mike.....
 

Thanks my bro....you have been living through it:) bitter- sweet almost in a way I guess:confused:......we used to think it was just a handful after these.....but there are many more joining by the day....I hate throwing around any number, but predictions are directly correlated to supply and demand in simple economic terms(sorry i'm a business school graduate)....the demand will simply increase on these, while the supply will become even tighter as the population realizes their significance to the set, the rarirty, besides the just plain :cool: factor....haters keep hatn' i'll keep a lovn':)

Just for you Johnny. I love your passion my friend...I suppose this is the type 1....?

http://luckeycards.com/pt206mattyproofandregularx2.jpg

I don't have an opinion on the T206 scraps, but I am extremely surprised that other sets from the era don't see prices at least in the ballpark for their scrap.

For instance, I bought this E92 missing color on eBay within the past year for $85. If this were a T206, I assume it would be several thousand?

Should the price disparity be THAT big??

Johnny has Type I Cardboardism

...There's no cure. ;)

We have seen common low grade Drums and RH hitting 10k+ prices, BL350s going to 3k. Two multi strike scraps this year hitting $6500,$7600 a miscut front hitting $4700 and one at $9600. Test prints at 9k. What would Leon's cards go for now? Jeff's miscut Cobb?

Johnny was predicting these prices two years ago when I started. Now they are a reality and we haven't even seen the BIG errors come up yet :D

Never say never.

For the record I don't own any of these crazy types, I highly dislike these prices and if it meant my error cards market value dropped to 1/4 but so did the rest I would be a happier collector.

Love this...

I would be afraid to go anywhere near a scrap - someone might kill me to get it, or knowing I had bought one, murder me in my sleep. These things have gotten dangerous.

Exactly! If the phenomenon is limited to T206, then it is not scrap collecting -- it is weirdo-T206 collecting. Nothing wrong with that, but even I don't limit my pursuit of signed prewar to T206.

Promotion is a double-edged sword. I love sharing my signed T206 conquests here and on my website. But it certainly has raised interest and prices for these. Good when I go to sell, of course, but bad in the near term.

I like that e92 and would have scooped it up if I noticed it. You are right though, t206 prices for scrap compared to their common counterpart is astronomical compared to other sets. Even t205s get a premium but no where near where its counterpart in the t206 would get. I would think the natural move would be that people that do like scrap but can't afford t206 may navigate to another niche in the t206 world or they will have to go into other sets. So it may be that t206 is just leading the way for other sets.

This has turned into an interesting debate! I'm still a few steps over to Scott and Peter's side here...it seems ridiculous and irrational that freaks and scraps from other sets of the same era get pretty much no respect as compared to t206. It's a mania...people have gone manic over anything and everything T206...and that's fine...that's good for the hobby I suppose.

But there are tons of other unique/one/close to one of a kind cards...it's gotten to the point where many collectors consider every vintage card to be one of a kind because it's condition and print characteristics are unique to itself alone.

"It's the only sgc 20 with ink blotch by his head in existence!"

I still believe that in no way will the t206 price trend continue well into the future...NO WAY!!!!

This is one of my favorite threads recently (along with the Dots Miller thread).
It seems to have a bit of everything.

One thing I'm curious about; the auction description didn't have a photo of the backs, but several people must've asked for a shot of the backs. Is it the fact that the Brain card had the piedmont print on the front that made people suspect there might be gold on the back?


Loved this by Chris: Johnny I do appreciate your enthusiasm for the printer scraps and the descriptive explanation. Made me sit up and take notice.............. I have a few t206's in my modest monster that I consider uniquely interesting (due to stamps or random handwriting or the like), and I do enjoy those. I can see the attraction.


Leon would you mind posting your t206 printer scrap? I really thought it was cool the first time I saw it and would love to see it one more time.


Thanks,
Tony

T206 scraps have become their own individual 'set' to collect. It is easy to group them into different types and there are a lot of them compared to other card types. The fact that there are 524 cards in their parent set also makes a big difference. To me it is a no-brainer as to why they get so much attention compared to other scraps. I just don't see some of the non-aesthetically-pleasing ones as being worth so much. But they are to some people, and that's great.