You're right. I stay the hell away from $10k raw cards with vague descriptions by sketchy sellers. They're all yours.

The auction was outed. Not a card of interest to me, but I'd hate to see for a Detroit OJ of Deacon White, for example, to be outed in a similar fashion.

Despite having Babe Ruth in the title, it would have been missed by many given the one day listing and strange (early) end time. Some of us patiently, frequently, and diligently search eBay for the cards we collect in the hope that we will sometimes be rewarded with a little less competition when a card of interest does surface.

On the other hand, we often help each other out by alerting friends to cards that we know might interest them without going public.

I usually set my min. price for something like $100-150 to weed out worthless stuff. If an $8,000 card is has not cracked the $100-150 barrier, there is a good reason for that. The reason is far more likely that it is a fake than simply because every collector on eBay at any given time has just missed it.

I don't mean to be argumentative at all. If the auction title would not have had Babe Ruth in the title listing, I could see the card flying under the radar. But not when Ruth is named in the title listing.

I understand "B" and feel that "B" probably occured in this case, I can see why some folks may be a tad upset, but I don't understand why "A" would be any big deal? Isn't there even a section on the BST for "outing" (advertsing) your own ebay auctions?

Well, that's where it is properly done. The front page could end up being flooded with that type of listing. And usually when it is done on the front end page it is not done with full disclosure so to speak.

I.e., "What do you guys think about this "so and so" listed in "X" Auction. Isn't this a tough card? It really looks like it is in good shape. What do you think is a fair price for it?"

That has no business on the Pre-War Card Forum page IMO.

+1

"I understand "B" and feel that "B" probably occured in this case, I can see why some folks may be a tad upset"

+1

also posted by tonyo

I understand and agree (regarding "A") .

This quote by Leon seems to be saying that outing your own auction is frowned upon: I'm not really following the logic there, unless he is saying the same thing you are saying. (advertise your own auctions with full disclosure and in the proper place on the forum)

It is in fact "f***king delusional" to maintain that the absence of pertinent info on the card in a one day auction, even Babe Ruth, does not lessen exposure and thus potentially results in a deserved bargain for someone who put in the time to dig it out without the help of outing.

I am saying that it is not ok to spam your own sales and/or auctions, or those of someone you are conspiring with who has a vested interest in an item, on the front page. There is a place for that in the BST sections. It is the 8th BST section from the top and says

Ebay/Vintage Card Auctions B/S/T

That is the place to spam things you have consigned to auction houses, ebay auctions, other peoples auctions or whatever. As I always say "there is no rule against outing auctions, per the easy rules, but I personally would prefer it not be done." No one will get in trouble for doing it besides having some folks not be happy with you.

I still think it's effing crazy to talk about an ongoing auction on the front page which you have an interest in. Just crazy. And I didn't have much back up on the issue when another board member did it recently..which is fine, it happens, but to me it's ludicrous. No smart person is going to post something they have an interest in so thousands of others can see if they have an interest too. I will look anyone square in the eyes and tell them that was a stupid thing to do.



.

People search for Babe Ruth cards every blankin hour. There's no way they wouln't see it. Is the seller a member of Net54 ? Maybe the winner is a member, too. We can ask him how he found out about the auction.

how much would this card in this condition go for in a major auction house?

who knows?
 

Hard to tell. There was an SGC 70 of this same card that went for slightly over $8k about fifteen months ago. It doesn't trade frequently enough to have a good idea, but I think >$10k is a very strong price for this card, period.

Doesn't matter how many people search for babe ruth cards a hour. Not many people would spend 10k+

but I think >$10k is a very strong price for this card, period.

That's where I'm at.

I would have preferred that this auction not have been outed. As others have said, although Ruth is widely searched on ebay, people miss auctions all the time. I have a saved search on Ruth, but I did not know of this auction until I saw the net54 posting. You can see how dramatically in price this card rose on a typically slow Saturday for ebay after the thread went up. Especially since this auction was a 1 day auction, ending at a strange time, there might have been a small chance to pick it up at a decent price. As Brock said, it's not that you need to weed out every Ruth collector. You just need to have the ones who would have been willing to bid more than you for this auction miss it.

The price for this card was very strong, especially considering the back damage. It might even grade an authentic for all we know. This card sold on ebay last year for ~10K in SGC5. It was then flipped to PSA 5, and sold at Migh High for over 30K to Spence. Peter picked up a very nice version of this card last year also. No question, this card is hot.

Well that clears it up and you and Jeff are saying the same thing.

I was corn-fused by your post #13:

A Ruth is better condition (PSA 5.5) went for 44k recently. 10k doesn't seem ridiculous for this card IMO.

I don't know why a seller would do a one day auction with such a weird description on this. If I had won the card I would be picking it up in person for that kind of money.

Just searched Ebay for "babe ruth". There's been 86 new listings in the last hour, 738 in the last 12 hours (387 baseball cards). This discussed 24 hour auction could have easily gone unnoticed by a huge group of buyers.

Besides all that, it seems that out of common courtesy posters wouldn't out auctions because there is a significant group here that wishes you don't.

I just read through the first four pages. IMO, I don't feel that there is anything wrong with outing an auction. However, I can see where some may think differently. For those that do, just answer me one question. What's the difference between outing the auction that is the subject of this thread, or outing this auction that is also on the main board...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=163501

I really see no difference.

(1) For the Plank, if you go to the Legendary auctions home page: Link, you see a picture of the Plank card. That is, this Plank is such a featured card in this auction, nobody is going to miss it.

(2) In contrast, the Ruth card is a one day auction on ebay that ends at a strange time. It does not even list M101-6 or Felix Mendolsohn in the title. A lot of people are going to miss this auction.

(3) The Plank is such a key hobby card that a website (t206resource) even lists every single variation of this card, and the sell prices. Even though this is a very rare and popular Ruth right now, it does not have the same notoriety that the Plank has.

+1, there is no difference, some folks just get the chapped ass when they think they missed a "bargain." Who is to say it wouldn't have gone for 10k+ anyways? It only takes two bidders with 10k in their pockets...

Gary,

Now I am even more confused. Are you saying iIt's okay to out an auction, just as long as it's not an eBay auction or are you saying it's okay to out an eBay auction, just as long as it's not a one day auction?

Same applies to other auction houses as well.

First, I want to say, it's done, it's over, I've moved on. Chris' bid would've crushed my bid anyway.

I think as Leon says, there is no hard and fast rule for this. I mean, sometimes there are even net54 contests where people guess the ending price for auctions, so obviously those auctions are outed.

Saying that, IMHO, I don't think ebay auctions should be outed unless there is concern that the auction is not legit or the price of the auction is already at a level where practically no one can afford. If someone is looking for that card, it is common courtesy to not out that auction on the main board since that will increase the price that someone needs to pay for that card. If you want to out it, put it in the BST forum under the ebay section, not on the main board. The main board, IMHO, is for general hobby discussion, not for every individual auction that might be going on. Planks, the Brooklyn CDV, and others like it have an important place in the hobby. This auction was for a pretty specialized Ruth card, which although it is popular with Ruth collectors, is not a cornerstone of the hobby card.

Anyway, it's a thin line. I think it's better to just talk about the card after the auction is over or put it in the BST section as I said. I don't know why it has to be in the main board.

+1

Only sellers benefit by asking questions on this forum about a live auction.

I think there are plenty of people on this board alone who are pissed about the auction being "outed"

Isn't that an indication it wasn't flying under anyone's radar?


Give the guy a break.

Today there was an uninformed collector who wasn't taken advantage of for his lack of knowledge. Outing is a good thing.

Actually, it was encapsulated in a PSA 5.5 holder and sold in MIle High for $44K!

It flew under my radar, as well as others here who would prefer that it had not been outed nonetheless.

Nonsense. Lazy perhaps, as he could have taken the time to research or at least better remember a card he himself bought from a notable card auction house.

I disagree.

:D True.

I wonder how many of the posters who are upset about "the outing" actually bid on this Ruth before it was outed? Now, there's a poll to be taken :)

Sincerely, Clayton

Are you saying that people arent allowed to advertise their own ebay auctions here if they are doing so in order to get a better price?

So because this guy is selling stuff "off of ebay" for his own personal gain it's not against the rules? Or is my definition of "vested interest" completely skewed?
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ght=wade+boggs

Why is this JUST NOW coming up? Because this thread is about a high end card? I see people on here ALL THE TIME linking to their own ebay auctions.

Hell there is a section on the main page for linking to ebay auctions in general?

Here is over 100 pages of people "outing" their own ebay auctions because they obviously have a vested interest in how much the item sells for.... and also tons of links where people are pointing out other peoples auctions.

http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Anybody ever see this before?

Ebay/Vintage Card Auctions B/S/T
All posts in this section should involve any ads/notifications for Ebay auctions, Heritage, Huggins & Scott, Lelands, Grandslambids.com, shows etc..

I am not directing this at you in particular Leon .... it is more for everyone else who is complaining ..... yet again.

Now I'll climb back in my hole for a couple days and wait to see if the storm ever passes over this site...........

I can actually answer this question. None. I'm not trying to be cute. I just know the timing of the situation.

I kind of had that feeling.........:D

Sincerely, Clayton

Clayton,

Sorry about the poll :D.

Steve, I think you missed this post by Leon in this thread which already answers your post: Link.

Clayton, there's this tool called snipe software, which people use to try to minimize the final price of an auction. So not sure why your potential poll would even be relevant to this debate.

Hear hear!!

People aren't allowed to advertise their eBay auctions in the main forum because otherwise the whole front page might be flooded with people just here to pimp eBay auctions... Not hard to understand, right? If the seller wanted to advertise the card they can do so in the BST eBay forum. Actually, this could have been "outed" in that forum too, but it would still piss some people off. Like Leon said, there is no rule against outing, it's just irritating (to some).

-1...the last part and some of the condescending tone in the first part just seems to be adding to what's been wrong with net54 lately :(

So it's not annoying? And what is so condescending about the first part? I'm a bottom half collector, I don't think I'm allowed to be condescending, I think I came off wrong because I forgot a smiley :) sorry about that.

Gary, the poll idea was more of a joke. I know about sniping software as well. Here's the way I looked at it. The OP has been a regular poster on this board, longer than both you and I, and I'm sure he knows how people feel about "outing auctions". So, I'm pretty sure he brought attention to the auction for the benefit of the board as a whole-it was a 24 hour auction and a rare item. Not everyone sits on ebay all day long or uses auction sniping software, but the regular posters and board members seem to check the board on a daily or somewhat regular basis.

So, maybe he wanted "board members" who might have an interest in this item, but may not have noticed the auction, to have a shot at it?

I understand people do not like auctions being outed. I get it. But how many of the people who are mad about this auction being outed bid on this item? Anyone? Did you bid before it was outed,or after?

If a rare item is in a major auction house, do you get upset when someone posts "XXXX auction is up and running!!!"?

All of this revolves around the fact that "someone" didn't get a chance at a steal- but the OP gave the whole board a chance to bid on something they might not have noticed if it weren't for this thread. It was a 24 hour auction.

This is just my opinion, and I'm ok with being wrong, if I am.

Sincerely, Clayton

Clayton,

Outing auctions on the main board is just one of those issues where reasonable people will just have differing opinions. For example you brought up that the Brian has been on this board longer than us, so he knows the board better than us. However, I don't want to speak for him, I believe, Leon, who is the board owner would have preferred that auctions like this not be outed. So where does that leave us?

Outing auctions makes items more expensive for those who want to purchase them. So for you, Brian, and others who believe that they are just giving those other collectors a chance, it also makes cards much more expensive for those of us who are looking for those cards. And there is another forum for auctions, the BST board, that has been pointed out before. Just out them there, and not on the main board. You can't have the main board populated with outing cards that some board members think that other board members may be interested in.

I did not bid on this auction at all. I put in a snipe of $6100 for the card, but obviously, it never not executed because the card ran past that figure very quickly after it was outed on the board. As I said in an earlier post, Chris' bid would have crushed mine anyway. I still don't understand why it matters whether I put in a bid before or after the auction was outed. It does not matter because snipes exist, so it's not relevant to the debate of whether someone should out auctions on the main board or not. Not sure why you can't understand this point.

If a rare item from a major auction house gets outed on the main board, sure, I'm a bit annoyed. However, board advertisers can do this, so I am fine with it since it is part of the board rules. For example, during Leland's last auction, Leon mentioned that this auction had a bunch of Tabaco Angola cards which are particularly rare, and for which I was bidding on. I still managed to win the one that I wanted, but I may have paid more for it, who knows. However, sponsors can advertise auctions like this, so I'm fine with it.

One other thing that I don't quite understand is some arguments for this have been framed around "well, you just wanted to get a steal, which is why you didn't want the auction outed?" Are people jealous when other board members get good deals or something? I don't understand this point. For example, when Leon got a particular good deal on a Tobaco Angola card for Ruth that did not list Ruth in the ebay listing, I was not jealous. I was unhappy that I did not know about that auction so I didn't bid on it, but I was happy for Leon and the other board members who put in the work to troll through ebay listing after listing to find these great cards.

I also don't understand some people's opinions on this matter. In my opinion...outing a vaguely advertised...24 hr ebay auction of a rare...high dollar ruth card is NOT comparable to someone "outing" a plank in one of the major auction houses where the auction may last for weeks...not even in the same ball park.

To me it's a matter of etiquette...and some people don't seem to know/care what this means?!

I don't really have any opinion on the "outing".

My first impression was that Brian posted the link because of the sketchy way the item was listed. High end card, one day auction, seller doesn't quite know what he has, or quite where he got it. Legitimate listing or not, it was one red flag after another.

I was really expecting a debate on the validity of the auction itself, not a three page argument revolving around who deserves to see the auction, and who doesn't.

:confused:

Gary,

You told me that it was done, over and that you’ve moved on. Apparently it’s not and you haven’t. I still don’t know why this auction is such a big deal to you and no so much in other auctions (Plank for example) that I also see outed on the main board? When I asked you what the difference was, all I heard from you was excuses. Then Phil chimed in with an answer, “Same applies to other auction houses as well.” While I disagree with his stance on this matter, I have the utmost respect for his opinion because at least he’s consistent no matter what. His opinion doesn’t change based on circumstances. All I’m hearing from you is basically that sometimes it’s okay and sometimes it’s not. Again, if you feel this strongly on the matter, why haven’t you said anything about the Plank thread (or the many other threads where auctions are outed)? Another poster even pointed out that auctions are outed for contests. Ever speak up in one of those threads to condemn the outing of the auction? Sorry, but you couldn’t be any more wrong about this. And it’s not your opinion that’s wrong - it’s the fact that you opinion seems to change based on the circumstances.

too many sour grapes over the "outing" of this card and others on this board. I for one don't care if auctions are outed or not. this card came up in one of my saved searches but I would not have bid on it. what's to say that some of the complainers aren't just flippers , who wouldn't have bought the card on the cheap and then turned around and tried selling it for 5-10x what they paid for it anyway....thats what I really don't like

David,

I am done with this auction and have moved on. However, some posts like this one have been directed at me with questions, so I'm answering them. That's all. Also, I still believe that auctions should not be outed in the future.

I was the poster that pointed out that auctions are outed in contests. Leon is the one who usually does the contests. He owns the board, so obviously, he can do what he wants. I'm definitely not going to interfere there. He usually does it to drum up interest in the hobby, and he doesn't do this for obscure auctions. Only those auctions done by major sellers on ebay who start their auctions at 99 cents. So you can say that he's giving them free advertising privileges for that contest duration.

Some of you guys are a bunch of cry-babies.

They only thing wrong with "outing" an auction is that it costs those of us who ultimately win the "outed" auction money.

Bummer for us, but that's part of the fun of the collecting game. Maybe I'll get a steal, maybe I won't. Oh no! somebody outed it, and now I have to pay more, boo-hoo-hoo.

Next time I sell stuff, I guarantee I will do my best to "out" my auctions, and I hope some of you will do the same.

Laughing at the absurdity of this "debate",
Doug

C'mon guys..this is merely a somewhat spirited discussion here?! More interesting than someone posting "Is this beat to shit T206 card a proof or printers scrap?" or someone letting the community know a red old mill back is fake...no duh!

My Hero!:D