Yeah. I don't see a whole lot of ethical or unethical argument. This situation seems to fall more into the gray area. I don't think either necessarily did anything wrong, aside from the seller accidentally not removing the card while it was away for grading. Once graded or shipped away, the card(while still the same at it's core) becomes something different. The card(unless trimmed or altered) was not going to comeback ungraed. Therefore the original "ungraded card" which was offered for sale, no longer exists as soon as it hits the mail..

The flipside of the argument, that it's still the same card, is perfectly understandable though..

Now, I ran into a situation on a website few years back(I won't name names, because I have since decided to give the seller another chance, and he's been good to me). Anyways, in my situation, the seller clearly had no idea what the item actually was(in this case a baseball related coin/token). I placed an order for it, and was listed on the website for $15.00. I received an email a few days later that he could not find the item, so it must've been sold...A few weeks later the item is re-listed on his site for $750(with absolutely no changes/grading/whatsoever). Obviously, when I purchased it, he must've taken a closer look and decided to look a little more into it before letting it go. I was pissed, and I can understand that maybe an employee/spouse or whoever may have listed the item without him having seen it first. Clearly, there was deception in the explanation I was given though, and that's what pissed me off the most. In this situation there was some ethics involved, since the item had never changed or evolved. But I knew I was practically stealing the thing in the first place at the price listed, and suspected that I would never see it going into it.

I guess what's hard for me to figure out is what type of card would jump to almost double the original asking price going from raw to a 2.5?

And, if the seller took the time to put in the listing "out for grading" why didn't he just remove the price?

The buyer was willing to pay the $400.00 regardless of whether it came back as an "A" or a "5". This is why I agree with the statement that "it's still the same card" :) (only now it's entombed in plastic with a TPG's opinion).

Fun discussion either way :D

Sincerely, Clayton

So the buyer was going to purchase the card unseen? It could've looked like it had been chewed up by a dog, swallowed, and removed from excrement and the buyer would've been happy for only $400?

agreed, if anything this makes me (as a buyer) think the seller would ask $400 no matter what it came back as from the TPG

+1, funny how that holder changes the price. A different grader and its a "1" and worth $400 again or deemed trimmed and worth $250 or a 4 and its worth $1k. ITS THE SAME CARD NO MATTER WHAT A TPG SAYS!!!