leon
 

i dont have mine in front of me...

how many raw cards does REA have in the first 100 pages??

zero?

I have only busted out a few - usually when the large majority of a set is raw. A couple of 52 bowmans, nothing higher than psa 2. and one or two in a random modern or post war set here and there. I don't think I have ever busted a prewar card.

Ultimately I prefer raw because I like stacks of cards as I did when I was a kid. My feelings on the raw vs graded most closely mirror SteveB's (although I've never submitted any cards for grading, but I do have a couple of candidates that I'd like to send one day if I get around to it)

That wasn't the question.

My T206 Cobb (red) is driving me crazy. My all-time favorite card. But he is slabbed in plastic. I have the card-----that's great. But I have never touched it. Something wrong about that. I bet some day I crack it and get the full satisfaction of owning it and actually touching it.

Scott
 

Scott,

I didn't mean to imply that you were a flipper. And as I have said before, I believe in slabbing, and practically all of my prewar cards have been slabbed by PSA, SGC, or BVG. I was just trying to explain that there was another side to the argument, which I understand. It's just another one of those things where reasonable people will just have agree that there are reasonable differing opinions out there.

I should add
 

I should add that even though I think there are a ton of raw cards in the hobby, and even some valuable raw ones, I do agree with what Scott F. is saying. It is also the reason I have almost 100% of my higher valued cards in holders. Just my opinion but I think de-slabbing an expensive card is not wise. (for the reasons Scott and others have stated). Even though I am argumentative and play devil's advocate I try to be fair in my arguing. :)

Most of the price escalation has been in the mint category. My Dad bought me a 1968 Topps Mantle for my 8th birthday, That was 1988. It was in fair condition, he paid 60 dollars... Guess what that card is worth today? Of course the price has "escalated" because slabbed mint examples have sold for thousands of dollars right?

Its a really good thing TPGs are around to keep the value of mint cards high. Just don't crack the plastic or you'll lose the value... CRAZY AS F***!

totally disagree...

there are hardly any prewar mint cards to begin with so this argument holds no water...

the rarity of a card mainly determines its valuation...actually the more times a specific card is found in mint, the less it is worth...

+1

Do what makes sense for your collecting style. I prefer the lower/mid condition raw stuff, however with the higher valued cards, beaters or not I prefer the look and "security" of a slabbed card.

if you haven't already done so...i bet you won't.

If the rarity of a card determines its valuation then no value should be lost by cracking a slab.

Rarity value is simply supply and demand, but thats not what you are referring to in any of your posts.

successfully cracking and re-subbing a card for a higher grade actually makes the same card worth more money. That is so crazy to me. TPGs have added phantom value to cards, coins and currency. Just a fact

The combination of a stack of T206 and a Dunkin Donuts coffee is a great thing.

Bunches:d

Makes me jealous, but that is one GREAT picture

I wouldn't call more value for nicer examples a phantom value. It's been that way in nearly every collecting hobby for a very long time.

Being able to quantify it and make money from that is somwhat new, but hardly something that began with TPG in any field.

And cards are primarily a demand market. Otherwise the Wagner wouldn't even be close to the most valuable card. I'm not even sure it would make the top 500.

What grading has done is to bring in a group of people who have a good deal of money, but not necessarily the time to learn all the nuances of a wide range of cards. With TPG they can feel comfortable buying certain cards without the suspicion of alterations and fakes. And that has raised values on the popular sets well beyond what they would be otherwise.
Many of the less popular/less well known sets especially postwar are actually the same or lower than they were several years ago.

Not saying that's good or bad just that it is.
Not saying those same people don't understand the history or the baseball.



And the anti-slab crowd will perhaps be happy to note that slabs while still available for stamps have largely failed to succeed. Certificates which have been around for long time (Maybe a century or more? they were preceeded by expertising marks) can now have a grade included, and that's becoming more popular.

Steve B

Steve B

What he said.

Steve, I get what your sayin', I'm not totally anti grading. I collect mostly low grade stuff and since I've been crackin' for the last few years, I can tell you with certainty that I have had a much harder time selling or trading for equal value. Oh well... It's still worth it to be able to enjoy them.

As far as fantom value, bumping a card from 4 to 6, Makes the same card sell for more money. That's cool for the seller I guess, but now the guy who buys the card will lose that "value" if he wants to crack and hold that card.

In theory most cards shouldn't ever get a bump from 4-6. Although the mid grades are probably somewhat prone to a higher portion of borderline cards.
I have a couple that might get that sort of bump or more, if they held strictly to their standards. But most cards are clearly either VG+ or EX.

That's in theory, not in reality. I know some send in till they catch a good day or more lax grader.

Of course there's always a subjective portion to it. Centering can be measured on anything with a border, but one persons VG corner is someone elses EX. And that's the place where problems come in. (I won't even start figuring out how the divide 8,9 and 10, as most of those seem very nice to me. )

Low grades don't make much sense to me slabbed, unless it's a very expensive card. I have 1 1/2 low grade T206s slabbed, one a 10, the other was a 10 , bought raw and actually shipped to me with the flip and the remains of the SGC slab. Neither are ones I sent in. I should crack out the first one, but I'm just too lazy.

I also don't think the really nice cards are overpriced. Some stuff just isn't out there in really nice condition. I'm not overly picky, but once in a while I'll go a bit more for a very nice example of a card. (Raw or slabbed)

Steve B

I love the slab... and I think that the cards do too. Many of these cards are old and worn pieces of cardboard. They are like elderly grandmas that just want to lay down and take a nap without being fondled. They are 70, 80 or even older. And all that you young whipper snappers want to do is to pull them out of their slabs for a night on the town for your own jollies, without really thinking about what they want.

The slab is like a retirement home for these old relics. These old cards have gone through the World Wars and the Depression. They've been through tornadoes, fires and floods. Some may have been through an ugly divorce or two. The slab is like heaven - just a place to relax and spend the rest of their days, unmolested.

Tony - Thats hilarious. I love putting personalities/traits with inanimate objects. I think of slabbed cards as the pissed of kid standing in the corner for something they did wrong and all they want is be freed to play with the other...but I do enjoy taking them out on a night on the town!

Grandma calls the slab her Fountain of Youth. She hasn't gotten a new wrinkle in years. ;)

sometimes I buy slabbed cuz they are cheaper. For example, there is a microscopic wrinkle or paper loss or mark that is not easily visible but the card has nice eye appeal. Thats when I crack and put into a binder!

"Collect and let collect"

Rob
:)

Today was a better day - freed 7 today.

I must have freed over 200 cards thru the years. I buy a lot of older star cards graded because it gives a reall good feeling that the card is authentic (i do look and try to figure if the slab has been tampered with before i buy), but i like to display ALL my cards from tobacco to goudey to modern cards in albums in plastic sheets, so out of their plastic womb they come.