TY. Taking a look at them now!

The only people I know now who take documents and cut them up are the imbecilic and greedy card companies. Some dealers will cut up an autograph page to separate the autographs and though I don't do something like that myself I don't think it is as egregious as what the card companies are doing.

I agree with that Richard.
As for the tickets to me at least Alex (and I dont know him at all) in my opinion will end up making at least 22 possible people happy instead of one if he left the book intact. Remember there is still one complete book intact that we know of. And who is to say that if he did sell the book intact that the person who bought it wouldnt do the exact same thing that he is doing! In my opinion I dont think having them graded will make any difference in price being a 6 or an 8 or a 10. The tickets are what they are,and I really have no problem in what he did. Others may disagree but how many times have we all seen great collections broken up! Leon as a type collector wouldnt you agree I would rather have one of the tickets than have to try and buy the whole book and maybe not get it at all. Just my thoughts.

Yes and no, Al. I guess since he has another whole book it's not so bad. However, that being said, I have had a lot of uncut pre-war strips, of which there are plenty more of,......and I know cutting them up and grading them I could have got more money for them, but I could just never do it. I don't know what it is but I just can't cut up these 50-125 yrs old pieces of history. Now, I have had a few really crappy looking scrapbooks with fairly valuable cards or stamps in them and those I have cut up. But the scrapbooks were really bad looking and rotting. They had no aesthetic or historical value. For those kinds of things I have no issue cutting them up, but for these whole, nice looking treasures, I just can't bring myself to do it.

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Leon,
I would agree with you on the strip cards. Cards in general on sheets I myself wouldnt cut up. Funny there is another post about to cut up or not cut up that Bowman card sheets. (See I wouldnt either) but as for these tickets they were meant to be sold out of the book. Arguement is Alex didnt have to tell us that they were in a booklet. Like i said up one of my upper posts they could have been loose, and what if he had said I have all of the tickets from a booklet (loose) and I still have the booklet also that they came in. Would have been a different story. To me I would rather own one than none in this case. Like I said just my feelings!

Not to hijack the thread (I can start a new one, if that's better), but what about old autograph books? Someone mentioned it earlier, I think. But what's the general opinion on cutting those up?

I found a really neat autograph book at an estate sale that contains mostly boxers. It dates to the 1940s and 1950s and has 70 to 80 signatures in it, including Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, along with Marcel Cerdan, the boxer killed in the plane crash who was Edith Piaf's lover. (Apparently, a fairly rare signature.) Trouble is, it also has some basketball signatures, and even an old Bob Feller. So different collectors would be interested in different signatures.

Would people go nuts if I cut it up and sold the signatures individually? Each signature is on a separate page and the owner -- who I"m guessing stood outside Madison Square Garden over and over through the years -- wrote a little commentary about each boxer/player on the back of the page. It's neat to read his opinions on the guys. The book does have some historical value/charm as a piece, but in the end, I'd like to maximize my money. I'm torn (so to speak) about tearing it up. What are the various opinions on this practice? I know it's done all the time.
Thanks.
Rob

With regard to Alex's question about which major auction house to consign these tickets, I have to say I don't think the individual ones are valuable enough to qualify, unless you consign them all as a group...in which case you could have left the book intact.

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Barry,
I agree some of the auction houses wouldnt want this item I.E. Rea I would believe Rob would deem it to small. But remember he still has a book intact and could try it complete in a major auction house if he wanted to.

I think REA's deadline has already passed, at least for the printed catalog. He usually has an added internet section however.

I believe your right!

I know the guy who really owns these tickets..his name is Ed. I do not know this poster, but I do know that he lists stuff all the time for Ed. I talked to him at the antique show this weekend and he told me that he tore a booklet up and sent them to PSA. I was disappointed to hear this, but it's not my book.

I also know that there is at least one more booklet out there.

Diving in here on this post. I have thick skin, but want to challenge your information.

-Correct on the status of other booklet; we bought it at the same time as we sent the tickets into PSA for grading. The 2nd booklet is intact and in better condition than the booklet we split up. There is no intention to split the 2nd book up.

-Correct on, "I do not know this poster." I have never met you and have no interest in antiquities, so I will probably never meet you.

-Incorrect on my listing activities. Outside of these tickets (which is a joint venture), I have never listed anything for Ed on any auction site or other market. I don't do consignments nor list other individuals' items for any reason. I have assisted Ed many times in card grading with regard to PSA and BGS order submissions (piggy backing on my specials) and appraisals of modern memorabilia he finds at random. Additionally, I have assisted him in the authentication of rare items and many autographs.

-Incorrect on ownership status. Ed had external financing from other parties during the purchases and grading; these parties have possession of the graded tickets and are charged with seeking the return on the investment. His money did not buy all of the tickets nor pay for grading. However, he does have a nice investment here with others and did work hard to buy the tickets. Also, he did not send the tickets into PSA for grading. He does not have a PSA account (though one is not required) and did not pay for the grading fees.

-Not trying to play, "I know more than you," but I wanted to set the record straight. Ed is on vacation at the moment (you probably know where). If you have concerns about my status in this venture or my posts, PM me and I shall give you my cell to talk it over.

Currently working with Lelands and Legendary to try to find an auction home for the tickets. Thanks to the forum members for this advice.

Alex, I only know what Ed tells me...I may have you mixed up with some other guy that lists for him on ebay though. He is constantly wheeling and dealing. And I do know for a fact there were at least three booklets floating around when these were first found...I would not be surprised if more were found...I know the guy that found them is out at the Waverly auction almost every week. I could just ask him, but I'm not sure he'd tell me.

It's cool. Ed is a nice guy, but can be distracted sometimes. it is all good.

+1 Leon

As a collector, I can appreciate having a book intact. But from a business and benefit to the hobby perspective I would have sold one book in a major auction, then broke the other up and sold them as singles. This would accomplish two things:

1st It would maximize generation of cash. There is no way these would fail to bring $200-$500 each (more than 40 collectors would want these) and who knows what the book would bring.

2nd This way you would be putting really really rare and nice pieces in the hands of far more collectors.

Why should the one big spender get all the goods? It's like when you see all five spalding trophies sell in a lot. They NEVER bring close to what they would have sold for as singles, and now the collector who just wants to own one (and only has the resources to buy one) is left out. I love knowing that someone who really appreciates a piece has an opportunity to acquire it without breaking the bank.

One thing he should have done was leave ONE ticket in the book he broke up. That piece alone would go for significantly more than any single out of the book.

One big difference between the trophy lot scenario you're presenting and these ticket books is that you wouldn't have to break the trophies into pieces to sell them separately. The idea that breaking something up so that more collectors can get a piece of the action may make sense monetarily, but I think it's rarely "good for the hobby." I'm not talking about breaking up a card set or piecing out a trophy or pin or whatever else collection of individual items. I'm referring more to the cutting up an uncut card sheet, opening an old pack of cards, removing something from a blister pack, chopping up a jersey/bat/ball, etc. Actions that cannot be undone.

With the case of this ticket book, you can argue whether it makes sense monetarily, or whether it really matters because the tickets were intended to be removed anyway, or how many more people get to enjoy the tickets now that they are not bound in their original booklet. What you cannot do, however, is return them to their original state. You can reassemble a collection of anything, but this is one collectible that cannot be put back together.

Would I have done the same thing if I were in the owner's shoes? I honestly can't say for sure one way or the other, and I'm sure personal finances would weigh heavily on that decision. Being a collector at heart though, making that decision to break up the book would sadden me, even if it did make the most monetary sense.

Think of it this way. If he didn't break up the book, only two people on the planet could have an example of this piece and they would likely only look at one ticket, the front one when they display it. The other 39 would probably never be seen again. This way 41 people can enjoy the tickets.

Lance perhaps I didn't make my point clearly with my initial post. Your comparison with smashing trophies and cutting up jerseys is an entirely different kettle of fish and not at all what I trying to communicate. The practice of destroying something and selling off bits that look NOTHING like the original is horrible. My analogy was all about collectors having an opportunity to enjoy a rare piece of memorabilia. If he found a box of tickets already detached we wouldn't be lamenting the fact that they weren't in the original book. We would all be celbrating the "find" and lining up to buy them (if the asking price wasn't completely INSANE like what he is asking). If he found a box of cut up jersey bits or smashed trophies we would be sad. See the difference Lance?

I completely see the point regarding keeping it original, I'm just offering a potential upside to the collecting community as a whole.

Yes, I do see a difference between cutting up a jersey and parting out the ticket book. I also see a difference between the ticket book and splitting up a trophy collection. To me, the ticket book is somewhere in the middle.

Part of the attraction to me of items like this is the wonder I feel that the tickets were not torn out of the books back in the day, and have survived intact to the present day despite the original intent of their manufacture being to have been torn out of the book and used by attendees of the games. It's the same feeling I would have about an unopened pack of 1952 Topps cards, action figures still in their original package, a case of vintage baseballs sealed in their original boxes, etc etc etc. Would any of those things be enjoyable out of their original packaging or if they had been used as intended by their respective manufacturers? Sure. But to me, there is a certain mystique that comes with something that was once meant to be used and thrown away surviving for over 100 years completely intact and unaltered from its original state.

You are clearly taking the stance that the more people that can enjoy something the better, which is a valid viewpoint, but doesn't diminish the sadness that those who would prefer to see the item intact feel when they hear of it being broken up like this. To some, knowing that a bit of history exists wholly intact, whether it's in our own collection or not, is more satisfying than owning a piece of it.

Good points Lance. Wow...we got a lot of mileage out of this post didn't we:)

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Lance,
Sorry but this hasnt been a hobby now for over 20 years. If there is money to be made somewhere somehow it will be done. Fake cards,autographs,jerseys,you name it. At least this isnt an attempt at that. It from my stand point yes a way to make money. (still yet to be proven) Have to sell them first. But an honest attempt. Still has one full book that Alex says isnt going to be broken up,so it still can be seen if an intact booklet is more valuabe than the broken up booklet. Either way good for collectors and good for them being found and put back in circulation.

If it's not a hobby any more (and there are many, many collectors who would dispute that), I think you've pretty much summarized why.

I've said my piece. No more opining, gotta get back to WORK :rolleyes:

just reading through this thread for the first time.

scratching my head.


why would anyone rip out tickets from a beautiful clean book?
wow!

There are at least four of these booklets from the original find...I talked to the guy who found them today at an auction. When I told him I knew of three he told me there are "at least four" and he smiled. I think there are more of them.

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Dan,
If there are really that many now around,and like you say there could be more ,I start to find it hard graded or un graded that the market will be able to support more than 100 dollars for a ticket. Like I stated in the above posts put a fair price on them sell them and move on to the next deal.

I'm a buyer for one of the full tickets at $100....

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Scott,
Well maybe 200:D

Meatloaf better unload these before someone else does;) If there are more books out there, the supply will exceed the demand.

If there are truly 4 booklets of +/- 20 of them, then the value of the tickets will diminish rapidly, if and when they all come out (depending if they too are torn out of the booklets). Once the demand by the collectors is satisfied, and then only the flippers are buying, the values will be quite low imo....I am one of those flippers, and with plenty on the market, I am a buyer in the $20 range :).

Scott,
You might be getting a call on this price sooner than you think!;);)

Leon,
I totally agree like I said in the upper posts when supply exceeds demand thet will drop like a stone. By the way I was trying to be nice at a 100. But you my friend stuck the knife in at 20!:D:D

I have several personal instances of things dropping quickly. I know it happens. If I were meatloaf I would be selling quickly.

The more people that read this thread, pertaining to 4 booklets of them, the less they will be worth (imo). If there were only 20 in total, how much would you pay? If there are 80 in total, how much would you pay? There is your easy reference.

Agree 100% and even now trying to sell a full booklet has really lost its mystique. I think the name of the game was strike fast and at a fair price. But now its a strike out.

I really believe there are probably more than 4. Ed and Meatloaf have two, I know another guy here in town that got one (his name is Leon!), and the original owner placed one on ebay after two had already been sold by him privately and intimated that he had multiples of them. The smile he gave me when he said "AT LEAST four" told me that he probably has more.

Getting these loose tickets graded by PSA was a complete waste of money IMHO. I stated this in my original post on this thread. With the potential value diminishing by the moment, think how much Meatlof has already spent on plastic slabs. In the end, he may end up scrambling just to recover the PSA bill. BTW, if I'm not mistaken, PSA charges $50- $75 to authenticate these tickets. Good luck recovering all your money... :rolleyes:

The PSA grading/slabbing fees for tickets is $25 if you declare the value under $500
and $50 if you declare it over $500

Jay,
When I contacted PSA a while ago, I thought that they quoted me $50 for grading tickets pre-1974. Maybe I misunderstood??

How much do they charge for grading Omahog tickets that are $9,999 OBO on eBay? LOL

Scott, I got the prices off their website Though as you stated $9,999 Omahog's may command the "Kings Ransom" rate. :eek:

Thanks Jay!

I sent tickets in a few months ago. All were from 1920s-2010. They were $25 a piece.

Bumping for updates . . .

Did we ever find out how many books there are?

Tickets rarely show up in my searches on eBay but when I saw one this morning for $125 BIN I jumped on it. A great looking ticket, Dave Rowe (of OJ fame) was president of the club (printed on ticket), beautiful looking ticket, I pulled the trigger without hesitation.

I somehow missed this thread (or forgot about it), only found it after a quick search after I purchased the ticket. I'm sad to hear the previous owner cut up a book. They are great looking tickets, glad to add one to my collection even if I paid too much. I now wonder how many have already been sold into the hobby and how many remain.

Dan, I often think of you when I see Omaha items, did you end up getting a booklet? I know it is a bit outside your scope, but would really be at home in your collection.

More than anything, I'm just looking for an update on these neat tickets. Do we stand at ~20 free tickets and 3 books?

No more books were found. I have one individual ticket, but never obtained a book. I know the guy who found these very well, if he had more he would have sold them by now and I would have heard about it.

I agree Joe that's a great looking ticket!

Picked this up a few months ago on Ebay:

Attachment 242984

Attachment 242985

Attachment 242986

Very nice...can "we" ask what you paid for it?

Thanks,

Jeff

I offered $225 to end it early and he came back with $300 and I said sold.

Randall, do you recall the ebay seller name you got it from. Totally missed it.

I don't recall the seller as it was back in January. It wasn't up long, maybe an hour before I snagged it.

Congrats, nice purchase.

Jeff

Well that explains why I didn't see it then. :D

Great score!