wow
 

A brilliant suggestion. I will second this motion.

I get the worst out of the way...
 

A screen name pariah, I figure Ty is much worse, and probably less trustworthy. Does it REALLY MATTER?

Board privacy is a complex issue. I'm on a few mailing lists/boards for bicycle collecting and/or repairing. I've also been on a few that are no longer running.

All the ones no longer running allowed complete anonymity. And they devolved into a fesival of very low name calling and coarse language. Even by my low standards. Once a lot of content got lost the collapse was quick as only the ones doing the stuff were left to abuse each other.

Most allow some anonymity, but not total, and usually there's no clear policy. The one that comes to mind is a mailing list for bulders or wannabe builders of custom bike frames. Some people are in the business, and are quite well known. Some are just starting and want to be known. The mostly anonymous ones are usually hobbyists. And usually everyone is ok with that. The exception lately was someone who wanted to be anonymous, but also wanted to split a $2000 parts order with one or more other people. How he planned on doing that without giving any info escapes me.

Another requires a lot of transparency, full name town and country on every post. That one has rarely had any full on arguments. (There was one guy who used to regularly post while either drunk or off his meds, but he's ok now)

But the money involved isn't as big as what goes on in cards. So there's less likelihood of theft. And it's closer to blue collar, so there's less sensitivity, and less chance of a lawsuit of any sort. (Except product liability, some new framebuilders are pushing the envelope a bit far in my opinion)

The challenge is how to allow some anonymity without giving the worst people a free hand to ruin things.
T206 collector has a point that we don't really have to actually know each other. And that there are security concerns.
But..... If a prospective employer won't hire me because I have a life outside work that includes baseball cards I'm not really interested in working for them.

I like the idea of potentially flagging threads as controversial, but it sounds like more work rather than less.
Pre approving people with good reason for keeping anonymous and maybe adding a logo of some sort? Although this just marks someone as maybe more interesting to the curious/nefarious.

I try to remember to add my name if it's a controversy. Like Kawika I feel that I am responsible for my comments. I also do first name last initial on most posts.

Another element that I think is lost with full anonymity is knowing whose opinion is being read. There are areas where I feel confident in my opinions. And areas where I don't have as much confidence. One of the fun things when I first came here was seeing some names I knew from the past. Guys that I knew had been around a long time and had a good deal of knowledge.
I also actually liked the overall atmosphere of the board. One of my welcomes was me mentioning that I had some blank back Southern league T206s. The very next response was I think literally "yeah right.." So I had to do scans. Being held to standards works well for me, probably a product of a backgroung in machinery/ manufacturing/engineering etc.

Steve Birmingham

Honestly, I'm all for anonymity if a member chooses to remain anonymous, but I think it would be nice for us members who list our names to be hidden from non-members. Or maybe even institute a trial period/limited access, in which new members can't see names for at least 30/45 days, to avoid anymore SteaknChop type fiascos, where a new guy gets mad and just starts using names to look up personal info. Hell, the harassing calls were just the tip of the ice-burg, as far as what a person can do to you, just simply by knowing your name and having a grudge. As far as the current rules regarding names and heated discussion, I'm completely on board with keeping them the way they are.

I prefer not to dilvulge personal information for privacy reasons but love the site. Is there anyway that there can be 2 different member status? One which allows someone to view all pictures anoymously (sp?) without the ability to comment and see other individuals sign-ins. Viewing pictures is my primary use of the site. Then a second higher level status with full functionality. It would be a shame if i couldn't view pictures without divulging personal information.

No worries
 

No worries...if you stay out of those controversial or hotly debated threads there will never be a need for the personal information to be made public.

It seems as members keep thinking everything is ok the way it is. It isn't. From the responses, and lack of rebuttals, what is probably going to happen is what Jeff L and I mentioned a few posts up. You will NOT have to display your name and if anyone asks I will give it to them privately. IF there are problems with that then someone needs to speak up. I can not continue to bird dog the "full names issue" on the site with the way the debates and arguments are going. Those discussions are fine, don't get me wrong, I just don't want to get involved as much as I have to now. If it stays the way I am proposing in this post then I will amend the rules to reflect this new procedure. If there are any complaints or issues about this PLEASE speak up now. Also, if someone asks for someones name, and there is no issue going on, then I will not give out the info. Your privacy is still in tact. regards

+1


When I first came to N54 - I wouldn't mind posting my name, or talking about family or personal stuff and my card collection was viewable to anyone on my website.

Over time (and because of some comments or correspondence from member(s)) - I feel less comfortable with the idea of posting my name, or sharing personal tidbits, and my collection on my website is now password protected.

Add to that the point raised about googling your name.... I would rather not have all of my posts and threads here show up in a google search.


So.... I am for 'no names', with the understanding that all names can be divulged at the moderator's discretion.


I would like to point out (especially because the beginning part of my post has a negative vibe to it)..... that N54 is one of the coolest places to go on the net. This is a great, great site. And a thank you goes to Leon and the other moderators.

Perfect

That axe-grinder is now in jail as far as I know...or at least in a crapload of trouble that's probably going to put him there.

same sentiment as "b.i.j.o.e.m".

I agree, this sounds like the way to go.

Recently (sort of) in the watercooler section, the board member (or ex?) Shimozukawa posted a link to a site where you put your name in and it pulls up every address that is tied to your name. I think he deleted all of his posts so it's probably gone.

I tried it and sure enough it pulled up my address(one of the few with the same name). I understand there are quite a few sites that do this, but it was a bit alarming to me how easy it is for anyone to figure out where you live just by your name, just having an unlisted phone # these days just doesn't do the trick anymore. And why would he post that on this site? Who knows, because now he is gone, and left us with a bunch of deleted posts :rolleyes:

Anyhow- this is the best site on the net, and Jeff's idea sits just fine with me too. Thanks for taking care of the board Leon- very much appreciated.

Sincerely, Clayton

I understand everyone's concern about "taking responsibility" for comments, but I have serious concerns with the requiring members to disclose their names for the following reasons:

(1) Many collectors with high-end collections (I wish that included me) and even low-end collections do not want to post their personal information on the board which could be viewed by potential theives, and

(2) I have read that identity thieves mine personal data from forums to build a profile for identity theft.

You may disagree with this but these fears do exist and such a rule would deter a significant amount of people from participating on the board (including me).

I have heard....rumors of that…

That is one of the reasons I was always just Wonka until recently Leon wanted my last name added which most everyone knew already...

In the end I will always stand beside what I type here. But I ended up on the axe grinders site because somebody forwarded my name and business email with my company info. Next thing you know my company is popping up on Google linked to a web rant page filled with anti-Semitic babble….luckily I work in the entertainment business where there are very few Jews so no big deal. ;)

That’s why for the most part happy to be Wonka or John.

Dan & Leon so what is the deal now? Not that it matters now but for the new guys full name or no…give me the reader’s digest on this.

John

rule change
 

So I/we can get out from under the gun of having to monitor the site 7x24, and be involved in way too many threads I/we don't want to be involved in, the rule will be changing. There will still be 0 "total" anonymity as the moderators will have every members contact info. That info will remain private unless someone asks for it who is involved in a discussion with the unknown (to the board) member. Hopefully that will satisfy almost everyone. I will probably put in a caveat that says if someone goes ballistic their name may still be made public, at the moderators discretion. That might help with folks that want to go off the deep end without fear of being known publicly. The goal is to keep privacy, when needed, but also to keep accountability. So the short answer is, you can take your name off your sig line if you want to, John. regards

If our name and/or contact information is requested by someone and given to him or her, can we expect to be notified by a moderator?

Thanks.

yes
 

Yes, I will be happy to let folks know when someone inquires about them. It's a two way street.

Agree 100%
 

!00% agree

President of the United States of American Beauty
 

Another reason to avoid associating your name with your card collection is in case you run for public office some day. I can just imagine a news article about how Jonathan who is running for Mayor is out-of-touch with the common man's plight because he spent $20K a year on baseball cards last year alone.

(like when John McCain was asked about how many houses he had -- he's invested in rentals and someone else takes care of them so he didn't know. Boy did that make him look out of touch)

I too like the idea that when people get in disputes their full name AND email are disclosed to each other in an email to both from Leon so they can take it offline if they'd like.

-Jonathan

Leon, I understand your position, but ...
 

Understanding that you need to be substantially less involved in personal quarrels, I will say this: If I am going to be shot at by someone for something I said, IMO, they need to be a real person with a real name. On the board. Accountable on the board, not in private emails, after you tell me who it is that's shooting at me. If I'm getting shot at in public, I want to respond in public. So when I send you the email about who is shooting at me, get the answer, and post that full name on the board, is that an infraction? If so, why?

I personally am not too satisfied with being attacked by some tool who doesn't even have the guts to post his or her real name due to alleged "privacy" issues that causes them to be anonymous while they're shooting at you. Being "private" is all well and good until you enter the fray. Then, IMO, you should forfeit that right. Understanding that was the problem which caused this post in the first place, the proposed solution doesn't fix it.

One cool thing about having a common first and last name combo... I don't think that anyone can find me by searching for Matt Hall.

I'm pretty sure that it is much easier to find out who someone is by their email address. I think everyone's email address is public here too right?

Plus, there are bigger privacy concerns then net 54 on the internet.

If you haven't seen this website, type you name in search, see what they have, and opt out:

http://www.spokeo.com/name-search?g=...FQELbAod3Godqw

And
 

Hi Kenny
And I am not comfortable with how it's been going. Give me a solution that works for everyone. Now, that being said, I think if you re-read my statement you will see that there is an "out". And by "out" I mean if someone gets too out of control then their name can be put on the board...otherwise, I am all ears.

ps...not sure about you putting the name out there. If I say yes, it will cause a sh** storm and if I say no it will cause a sh** storm...tough one...I am sure I wouldn't give you an infraction...maybe a verbal warning :)

Leon
 

So my question stands and remains unanswered: When I send you that email, get that name, and publicly post it, what happens?

Kenny

and...
 

And my answer stands...did you read my PS in the post?

asked my question as you were editing your answer, but it's still not an answer :)

really?
 

Really..... I said it would be a verbal warning :).
Kenny- I don't think people should be able to hide behind their USER ID's.....it ain't going to happen on this watch. However I want to also give our members a place where they don't have to have their name in lights for all of the reasons mentioned. I am still listening for the perfect solution.

-thought better of it and deleted post.

Leon, thanks for keeping your humor :)

There is no perfect solution
 

Thus:

"Privacy" is a back seat in controversial issues. If you want to post on those threads --- that is your right -- but it is also everyone else's right to know who is saying what about them.

I will put in a caveat, if a thread gets controversial AFTER a few posts -- and you posted early before anything broke out and did not instigate in any way --- then you are OK with that. This protects someone from posting in a thread like looking for partners in REA Lots and then 20 posts later a war breaks out. Obvously, you had nothing to do with that issue and thus why should you be penalized.

But, if you make a post in a thread knowing it's controversial, then I agree with Kenny and David, your name needs to be out there.

Regards
Rich

When does Elkins get out of jail? And when he gets out is he allowed to keep his guns and explosives? Let's answer these questions first. :)

Does that actually find stuff about you? For me all it had was an address that I moved from 10+years ago. And that with an incorrect middle initial. I'll be leaving that up there. A bit of disinformation goes a long way. (Facebook thinks I'm over 100 years old :D )

You may not use the Software to engage in or allow others to engage in any illegal activity where the Software is accessed and used. You may not use the Software to engage in any activity that will violate the rights of third parties, including, without limitation, through the use, public display, public performance, reproduction, distribution, or modification of communications or materials that infringe copyrights, trademarks, publicity rights, privacy rights, other proprietary rights, or rights against defamation of third parties.

Here's the deal
 

I don't care what you cut and paste you won't be bitching at companies on this board and hide behind a user id. Whatever you just posted is NOT rules for this board. They are posted for all to see. Either you can abide by them or leave. No one is forcing anyone to post or be a member here. So if you want to bitch just be assured you will be known. I suggest you consult your lawyer again.

I'm pretty sure the rules for ex-felons is no guns and explosives...I'm not sure if his chickens will be allowed to carry arms.

Mr. Ginter's post
 

Is the perfect argument for making sure there are names when needed.

That's why many of us don't like people who hide behind screen names never to be ID'd.

Rich

+1

Yeah, I'm not certain that a psychotic lunatic like Elkins is real concerned about what the law allows or doesn't allow him to do.

Mr. Ginter's post

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is the perfect argument for making sure there are names when needed.

That's why many of us don't like people who hide behind screen names never to be ID'd.

Rich


+2! I have always believed a full name should be posted as part of the ID, simple as that for me! Any other info can remain private & known only to Leon---to be used & disclosed at his discretion.

"GoldenAge50s
FredY
Member

I have always believed a full name should be posted as part of the ID, simple as that for me!"

Really? :rolleyes:

______________
Steve Murray

Leon,

I'm thankful I'm not in your shoes because of the daily BS you have to tolerate for managing this forum. It doesn't matter what rules you apply to this forum... you'll always have someone complaining about something. Just do what's easiest for you and say, "to hell" with everyone that isn't happy. Every participant is here by their on free will and no one is being held at gunpoint to post on a thread. If an individual doesn't like the moderation of this board, they have the right to not participate.

Agree wholeheartedly with Mike on that one!

Thanks for your energy and efforts, Leon.

Larry Smith

LOL Steve---

I just changed it back to Y from Young yesterday per one of Leon's (or someone's) latest posts! Will change back if that decision is made.

(Changed back to Young again, so any future rulings won't matter to me!)

I too am in a holding pattern. Deleted everything yesterday and am just waiting for the final word.

_________________________
Me: Steve Murray

Guys...
 

Just to let ya'll know this is something I am thinking about seriously, and have thought about, for the last few days. I know it's easy to say (and I very much appreciate it) "just use your best judgment" but that is what I have had to do too often. That is the reason for the thread; to try to figure a better solution out. Thanks to all who have commented so far. I am listening. regards

I just don't think there is an easy way out for Leon short of EVERYONE having to post a real name. If it remains a choice to be anonymous & there is a controversial post, he will have to keep telling folks to post their name.

If, as some have suggested, he give out a name to those that request it if a controversial post is made, then 25 people in the thread are going to want EM's from Leon!

OK, I fully understand both sides of the coin on this, but one thing I don't get is this:

(ficticious name used for example) *Bob Smith*

Bob's came on the board accusing X of ripping him off, and then goes on a rampage talking trash about a reputable (or non reputable ) auction house, then proceeds to bad mouth and disrespect multiple other board members.

Bob Smith's name is right there under his screen name. Other than Leon banning Bob Smith, what do you now do armed with Bob Smith's real name??

You have the name, but now what?? Do you know who he is all of a sudden?
Or do you still not know him at all? Retaliation? What?

I hope I'm presenting the scenario properly. Any time Leon has had someone disclose their name, I thought "O.K., still have no idea who he is, but O.K." :D

I fully agree that if someone is accusing someone of something (or any of those types of scenario's) that the person or buisness does have the right to know their names- they may want to sue for slander, or whatever. But I guess I don't get what the fuss is about everyone else having to have the persons info, *unless they are ripping people off*.

Sincerely, Clayton

I agree with Clayton's post above. Can a person's true identity really be confirmed upon signing up as a Net54 member? If the answer is "No", then requiring everyone to post their name wouldn't make sense. If a member signs up knowing there is probably a good chance they'll piss someone off, the chances of them disguising their identity increases.

Leon, a decision will have to be made one way or the other on your end... either everyone posts their name or no one is required. I don't see a middle ground that will free up time on your end. If you start setting guidelines to justify when a person should post their real name, you'll find yourself spending more time defining and explaining to people each individual guideline.... my suggestion is to keep it simple.

Whatever decision you make, you'll surely catch some negative feedback.... but once the storm blows over, everything should be fine. This is sort of like being the coach of a team. You may have a handful of parents in the stands who criticize your every move and think they can do a better job than you, but given the chance to volunteer and takeover the team... no one raises their hand. Make your decision, one way or the other, and I'm sure 95% of the members here will back you. Thanks, Mike

I believe we have a final rule....
 

So here we are on this rule. It seems obvious to me (and should be to the rest of the board) we will never have 100% agreement as there are too many good reasons to have names be known or not.

I think what I am going to do is leave the rule the same as it is now BUT put in a few more lines at the end of it to try to take me and the other moderators out of the "back against the wall" issue, with mandating so much in each thread. When someone in a thread says "But their name HAS to be in the post" it puts us moderators (mainly me) in the uncomfortable situation of having to be involved too often. Most folks on the board, that know me very well, know my pet peeves and so forth. NO one is going to be able to hide behind a user id, and not be known, if they are making heated or disparaging comments. Hopefully the risk of having your full name exposed, but not mandating it (for the reason above) will be good enough to take care of the issue. Here is what I am proposing. I don't see how it can be made better but am still open to ideas. At the end of the day members will either trust my judgement on the matter or not. As many members have rightfully said, they can post or not...no one is making them do it. regards



"Anonymous, where this board is concerned, implies that you are not known to the moderator or anyone else. That is not permitted on Net54baseball. However, you may remain private on the board; otherwise, as long as your post is not argumentative, controversial, confrontational, accusatorial etc.…For example you can discuss attributes of cards, sets or memorabilia and stay private. You can not say someone is an imbecile, hard to deal with, gave poor service etc…and remain private on the board. In addition to that if your opinion is that you dislike someone, hate them, can’t stand or don’t like anything about them, and you want to tell the world about it on Net54baseball, then your full name will need to be in your post. The moderator may put the posters name on the board or delete their posts, at his sole discretion, when this rule is not adhered to. *Heated debates will require first and last names to be known, and made public, on the board. Contact information will be given out for legal reasons or under extraordinary circumstances at the discretion of the moderator. **The moderator has the authority to not require full name disclosure at his discretion, especially for well known members. This does NOT mean members can hide behind a user id on the board. Please be aware that your full name may be made public or given to participants privately."

Really hope this is the final word on the matter...
 

In my few months on the board, it's obvious Leon does a wonderful job running Net54...it's also obvious that it can be an overwhelming and thankless job. I've learned so much from reading all the posts and seeing many things I've never seen before...and I am glad to be a part of this community, albeit a small part.

That said, I would really encourage everyone to think before they type and try to put themselves in Leon's shoes...at the end of the day, we all have to be personally responsible for our own actions. We shouldn't have to rely on Leon and the other mods to be our conscience...

+1 <--- 100%

The idea that people give a $hit about someone else's real name on an Internet forum is, in my view, heavily based on the view that "if I share my name, then I deserve to know yours, too." But the self-interest of one person to share their names cannot be a fair justification to require another person to share theirs, too.

I won't be giving names out unless it is called for. Don't get into those arguments/heated discussions and you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise, give me a perfect solution and we will go with it. Just because someone asks for a name doesn't mean I am giving it out. It has to be warranted, imo.

Leon,

To be clear, I'm totally comfortable with whatever solution you come up with -- short of requiring me to publicly post my name anywhere on the internet. I have simply never understood why anyone thinks putting their name out there is a good idea in any context. Or why anyone trusts that the names people do post are at all accurate -- or even relevant to any possible conversation.

So what if T205Trader calls me an a$$hole. What good does it do me to know his real name is Joe Smith? How would I know that's his real name anyway.

Best I can tell is people take it personally because they posted their own real names. But to me, that problem lies with the person who went public -- not T205Trader.