David
 

Great T3......it is indeed Shoeless Joe......thanks for posting it.


TED Z

No ankle wrap....

I am going to ring in even though I know absolutely nothing about this (and am about to display it).

I think Ted is on the right track overall in that the exclusion seems intentional, with the mystery being which party didn't want him on some of the cards.

It seems clear that these cards - whether candy, tobacco or other - were big business and widely/commonly known at the time. Therefore, I have a hard time with any "accidental" omission on Joe's part - the illiteracy, missing mail, etc. He had to be extremely aware of the baseball card business, and if he wanted to be part of it he surely could have.

It also seems clear that he was a serious player - on the same level as other players of the time who are represented in multiple sets during his peak years - and not an obscurity. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to me that the card companies would allow the lack of an "on hand" photo to keep him off the cards. I can see omission from the very early caramel sets - when he wasn't quite as big. But anything after 1910 or so seems like he should be there. If he was a premier player, the card companies (or ATC) could have and clearly would have gotten an image from somewhere.

So for these reasons, I mentally set aside any accidental or incidental omission of oversight or inconvenience or whatever. That leaves intentional exclusion. The question, maybe, isn't "why isn't he on the cards?" A more pointed question might be "which party (Jax or ATC) decided that he would not appear on cards?"

This leads to all kinds of interesting related questions. Why? Did the other party make significant efforts to change the mind of whoever decided he would not be in these sets? Did they even know why? Did anyone try to mediate (his team, other players, etc)? Not that these related questions may ever be known, but they are interesting to just wonder about and try to imagine.

Very interesting question, but I think Ted is on the right track when he talks about a snub. Not that a snub is the exact right answer, but it is in the arena of someone (Jax or ATC) deciding to leave him off major issues of the time. I honestly don't think that the lack of images or literacy or whatever was in play. These cards were a big deal. If both parties wanted it to happen, it would have happened.

Joann

Joann you asked some great questions if this turns out to be a snub but so far I am not convinced that is the case here. Joe is featured in both ATC and American Caramel issues. Why he wasn't included in several other sets by them has been answered earlier in this thread. Why he wasn't included in the others may have a good explanation as well with more research.

American Litho did not repeat the T210 images in the other sets. The other sets repeated the T206 images including T210. All of the sets that utilized the T206 images will not include Joe Jackson.

These two cards illustrate that T206 images were shared with T210. Perry Lipe was with Richmond in 1909 and Macon in 1910.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_UrSHvogCrmM/TA...0Updated28.jpg



1912 T202 – Same images as T205 so no Joe
1912 T215-1 – Shared images with T206 so no Joe
1913 T215-2 – Shared images with T206 so no Joe
1914 T213-2 – Shared images with T206 so no Joe
1915 T214 – Shared images with T206 so no Joe
1919 T213-3 – Shared images with the T206 so no Joe

I'm looking at the other sets and will let you know if I find anything.

I agree that it was not necessarily a snub in the sense that ATC simply shut him out altogether. It may have been something on JJ's part. It may have been somewhat mutual. It may have been a decision that arose at a particualr point in time or between two particular people (explaining his presence in some sets but not others).

But I do think that it was definitely an intentional choice by somebody, and not just an accident of literacy or lack of an old photo handily on file. So I'm not sure that any of the conjecture around which different sets used common images is a basis for a reason - if both sides wanted him to be in, they would definitely have arranged for something as simple as an image.

Great topic though. I don't have any of the detailed knowledge of this set and that printer, etc, that you guys have. But I'm enjoying considering the issue from a pure (read: lack of specific expertise) knowledge standpoint.

J

The different sets using common images is extremely important in this discussion and as a basis for Joe not being included. At the time these cards were printed and still today, the artwork and setup was the most costly part of the printing process. This is why we see images used over and over in different sets throughout a number of years.

Once Joe missed the T206 boat he was doomed to not be in other ATC issues using those images. The T206 set was so large and full of stars that I don't feel they were concerned with adding Joe or any other player that may have been left out of The Monster.

American Caramel is a little bit more of a riddle as they did include him in the E90-1 set but not others that used that sets images.

Grover Alexander
 

How about Grover Alexander? He was a superstar rookie in 1911 leading the NL with 28 wins. Does he appear in any of the early tobacco sets?

Joe Jackson appeared in only 30 games prior to 1911, so he was pretty much a rookie in 1911 also.

Ron R

OK. That's a good point. I am thinking that if he was a star they would want him in it and find an image - no big deal. But I suppose it's very possible that they really didn't care whether he was in it or not and decided not to pursue it for that reason. Still, I would think it was a conscious decision and not that they didn't even think of it.

J

Joann
 

I do admire your intellectual curiosity in this matter per your first post (#53). In particular your summation......
"Very interesting question, but I think Ted is on the right track when he talks about a snub. Not that a snub is
the exact right answer, but it is in the arena of someone (Jax or ATC) deciding to leave him off major issues of
the time. I honestly don't think that the lack of images or literacy or whatever was in play. These cards were a
big deal. If both parties wanted it to happen, it would have happened."

So, don't back off from those sentiments. Your comments echo my contentions here that the "snubbing" of Joe
Jackson was NOT inadvertent.
I was hoping to generate some more meaningful discussion here. And perhaps, someone would provide us some
substantial info as to why Jackson was not depicted in the major BB card sets during his best years (1911-1920).
Some of us have bantered about ACC and ATC printing processes and the like....well here is what I imagine really
occurred (based on all that I have read).

Connie Mack listened to his scouts regarding Joe Jax superb all-around play at Greenville (Class D ball), 1908. Mack
invited Joe to the play with the A's on Aug 25, 1908. NOTE....this coincides closely with his inclusion in the E90 set.
In that Sept, Joe had only 23 at bats for the A's. Joe was very uncomfortable in Philadelphia, as he did not get along
with his A's teammates, many of whom teased him mercilessly about his illiteracy and lack of polish. Virtually all of
Connie Mack's A's were College graduates.

But there was another factor in those early days of BB......there was a strong predjudice against ballplayers from the
"Deep South" by the mostly Northern-bred players of that day. The best example of this was when Cobb started in BB.

Anyhow, Connie Mack sensed all this and sent Joe down to Savannah for the most of the 1909 season. Then in 1910,
to New Orleans. Joe won the batting title in both those Leagues. He led New Orleans to the Pennant in the Southern
Association. In Sept of 1910, Mack traded Joe to Cleveland. Joe fit in well with his teammates there, as many of them
were Southern-bred, or had played in the Minors down South. The rest is history.

Please excuse my long-winded story here, but I feel it provides the background for why Joe Jax was deliberately snubbed
by many of the major set producers (E106, M116, T206, T207, T213-T216)....namely the Northern based company's pred-
judice and their lasting perception of Joe as a "country bumpkin".

I was was surprised to read about the anti-South sentiments that lingered that many years after the Civil War during the
early part of the 20th Century.
The advent of WWI considerably ameliorated this sentiment.

Thanks again Joann,

TED Z

Tim
 

I cannot agree with your......

"Once Joe missed the T206 boat he was doomed to not be in other ATC issues using those images. The T206 set
was so large and full of stars that I don't feel they were concerned with adding Joe or any other player that may
have been left out of The Monster.

American Caramel is a little bit more of a riddle as they did include him in the E90-1 set but not others that used
that sets images."

The 2nd wave (350-only series) of 14 Southern Leaguers should have included him in the New Orleans uniform. This
series of cards were printed coincident with the T210 OLD MILL cards. American Litho. (ALC) had already designed
their printing plate of Joe. He was not an unknown by that time. He had excelled with Savannah in 1909 and was
excelling with New Orleans in 1910. He was the "hottest" prospect in the Minors. Certainly more prominent than any
of the So. Lger's that were portrayed.

Regarding the American Caramel Company's (ACC) E90-1 set, if you read my aforementioned "Plank theory", it told
how close Connie Mack and Daniel Lafean (the founder of ACC) were....and, that is why in late 1908 this set's 1st
series was dominated with the A's players. Subsequently, Lafean sold ACC and went into Pennsylvania politics.

TED Z

Due to the T206 timeline he couldn't be included in a New Orleans uniform. He played for New Orleans in 1910 and the additional 14 southern league players were distributed in the spring of 1910. This would mean that the additional 14 were designed in late 1909 or the first few months of 1910 before Joe played in New Orleans.

this is kind of what I was talking about several posts ago. He was considered a "rube" and was discriminated against because of his southern roots and simple ways. This angle makes sense and is supported

Tim
 

If the timeline is a little tricky, then I'll settle for a Savannah uniform and team caption for Joe. The image was already designed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd say Savannah players are in the series of 48 So. Lgers. ?


TED Z

How do you explain the 48 southern league players that were included if it was a question of discrimination? The T206 set is full of "southern rubes."

The southern league players were selected from their previous seasons. The 34 included in the first run were selected from the 1908 season and printed in the summer of 1909. The 14 added were taken from the 1909 season and distributed in March of 1910.

IMO it wasn't discrimination, it wasn't an anti Joe campaign, it was timing. The facts I believe back that up.

As with any topic we can agree to disagree.

One player represents Savannah in the set and he was chosen from the 1908 season and appeared in the first 34 southern league set in 1909.

Joe played for Savannah (South Atlantic League) in 1909 and when ATC added 14 additional southern leaguers they could have added him but apparently wanted to increase the number of players in the Southern Association , Virginia League, and Texas League.

But it's not just the T206 set. It's several important sets of the era.

If it's just timing and photos, then the absence of a significant player from the significant sets of a significant commercial activity (baseball cards as promos) would amount to "it just didn't work out".

I don't know jack from jackola about the dates of issue and any of that, so I realize that I don't have a real substantive leg to stand on here. But from a logic standpoint, it really seems to me that it would have had to have been something more affirmative than simply not working out. I do understand the thought that maybe they decided that Cobb, Johnson, Matty, etc, were enough. Still, there were images available, and players being added, removed or changed here and there over the course of the distribution of these sets.

Joann

Of those sets that use the same images as the T206 set, was a new player included that didn't first appear in T206?

So if Jax was snubbed why isn't Alexander in any of the sets either?

Joann
 

I think there is and I'll check it out.


TED Z

Peter......et al
 

Another big mystery.....perhaps he was also snubbed :)

Alexander and Jackson had parallel seasons in 1911 (their first full seasons in the majors). Jackson bats .408
and Alexander leads the NL by winning 28 games.

Alexander's pitching performance in 1911 is the greatest season by a rookie pitcher in the 20th Century........

28-13 with a 2.57 ERA


So, why were Jackson and Alexander "snubbed" ?

Regarding Jackson....a combo of predjudice against BB players from the deep South and his illiteracy.
Jackson was not a talker....he was a doer. He did his "talking" with his Black Beauty bat.

Whereas, in Alexander's case, a heavy drinker, who had bouts with epilepsy, and was very introverted.
Alexander was not a talker....he was a doer. He did his "talking" with his right arm.

Goodness, how do you NOT portray in a major BB card set, a pitcher who won 190 games from 1911-1917.


TRIVIA......There is a strange coincidence associated with Alex's name....can you tell me what it is ?


TED Z

"But there was another factor in those early days of BB......there was a strong predjudice against ballplayers from the
"Deep South" by the mostly Northern-bred players of that day. The best example of this was when Cobb started in BB"


I think I buy into the snub for JJ-along with Cobb being included in 206 but not included in the Rochester, factory 649 part of the set-snubbed.

I know Speaker is Texas and that is south but not "Deep South"-How many big time players are "Deep South"?

Tim
 

That Virginia State League photo is killer -thanks for sharing it on the board

Jim
 

Your........

"I think I buy into the snub for JJ-along with Cobb being included in 206 but not included in the Rochester, factory 649
part of the set-snubbed"

This certainly is a good argument for Cobb's four T206 cards not printed with Brown or Red HINDU backs (Factory #649).

Also, this might explain why Cobb was not included in the SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory 649 (overprint) subset....while
all the other major T206 stars are in it.

Great observation ole buddy,

TED Z

Other T206 players were from the deep south, not in the numbers of the Northern and Midwest players, but they are there. Nap Rucker was born and played his minor league career in Georgia and he has two cards in the set.

I think speculating about JJ being snubbed because of bias or any other reason is over complicating a simple explanation. As I've stated before he could not be included in the T206 set because of when and where he played in relation to when and where they chose their images for the set. And without a T206 image he would not be included in a large number of other sets.

I agree with Tim. If Jax and Alexander truly were being snubbed, they would not have been included in as many sets as they were. Much more likely their start dates relative to T206.

Tim, Tim......
 

Sorry to say this, but you are grasping at straws with your one example, Nap Rucker. Actually, there are only 4
players from the deep South in the entire set......

Ty Cobb..........Georgia
Pryor McElveen.....Georgia
Rebel Oakes.....Louisiana
Nap Rucker......Georgia

These 4 represent only 1% of the 389 different subjects in the T206 set.

Tell me Tim.....is this just a coincidence, or were there no talented BB players from the deep South in that era ?
Or, could this be a case of deliberate predjudice towards BB players from the deep South by the team owners,
sports media, and perhaps the BB card companies (ACC and ATC) ?

Furthermore, you have stated that NO new players were added to the set. The 460 series was printed and issued
in the Winter of 1910 thru to the Spring of 1911. The following subjects are all new additions to the T206 set in
this last series......

Devore
Duffy
Frill
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummel
Latham
Needham
Payne
Pfeffer
Wheat

Obviously, Alexander didn't quite make it into the T206 set....but, you have to come up with some better stuff to
disuade me of my feelings that Joe Jackson was deliberately left out of all the subsequent Tobacco card sets.

Finally, if you guys choose not to accept the "predjudice" factor in these situations, then explain why the four T206
Ty Cobb cards (which were issued with many tobacco backs), were not issued with the Brown or Red HINDU backs ?

I think there is a connection here on the Cobb/HINDU enigma, as it continued in the T205 issue & T201 (MECCA) issue.


TED Z

Your number of four is not accurate and I'll cite Gabby Street as one example of a player you left off your list. With that said I'm not going to deny southern bias nor am I going to discuss it in relation to Joe Jackson not being included in the T206 set. I have explained in detail the T206 timeline and how ATC included southern league players and Joe does not fit into those parameters.

Your reference to my stating there were no new players added is inaccurate. I asked the following question:

"Of those sets that use the same images as the T206 set, was a new player included that didn't first appear in T206?"


Ted even though I have great respect for your research I don't feel I need to dissuade you. I have given you specific facts in relation to the sets in question and why Joe was not included in them. Facts that so far you or anyone else haven't refuted.

With that said I will gladly bow out of this discussion as I feel I've stated my case and let you and others continue on with this topic where ever it may lead.

Southern-born players
 

Gabby Street was from Alabama. I'm thinking there were a few others, Ted. Perhaps others can chime in.

Ron

well
 

Actually, there are more than that, and the fact remains that there simply were not that many MLB players from the deep south during that time.

Some others from the South included in T206: Dolly Stark and Dode Criss (Mississippi); Syd Smith (SC); Jimmy Lavender (GA) and Gabby Street (Ala).

Southern-born
 

Here's a few more T206 guys that I don't think were mentioned yet:

Boss Schmidt (Arkansas), Clyde Milan (TN), Bill Burns (TX), Ed Karger (TX), and Chief Wilson (TX).

Ron R

1st, I should've defined what was considered the "deep South", as it was referred to back then....it included Alabama,
Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. There was lingering bitterness from the Civil War days by North-
erners towards residents of these states.

Look guys, I'm not making-up this Northern "predjudice" stuff. It is well documented; and, one of the more informative
books on this is a biography of Connie Mack. I highly recommend it for those of you that enjoy reading in-depth stories
about the various ballplayers in the T206 set....and, Joe Jackson's early days with the A's.

And, thanks for coming up with a few more players, I was recalling research that I did years ago. Although, I'm surprised
I forgot Stark and Street. Anyhow, adding your new inputs....Criss, Lavender, S. Smith, Stark, and Street....we have nine
ballplayers from the deep South. This still just represents only 2.3 % of the 389 different subjects in the T206 set.

You can dismiss this predjudice as a non-factor, that's your prerogative. But, it is what it is....and, I think it even played
a role in the New York based ATC's decision to not include certain ballplayers from the deep South in their BB card sets.
Of which, Shoeless Joe was the most notable. Was this predjudice also a factor when Kenesaw Mountain Landis banished
Shoeless Joe from baseball ?


From a US Air Force veteran, I wish you all a solemn Memorial Day.

TED Z

First and foremost Ted thank you for your service.

Here's the list I have for your deep south players:

Alabama - Street and Fritz

Georgia - Cobb, Rucker, Foster, Lavender, and McElveen.

Louisiana - Oaks

Mississippi - Criss and Stark

South Carolina - Coles and S. Smith

Of the players in the T206 set I have recorded the birth places of 341. Of those 341, 229 were born in Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, Illinois or Massachusetts.

That leaves 112 for the rest of the country of which the 12 above deep south players make up 10%

As a comparison

Georgia - 5

Kansas - 8
Kentucky - 8
Maryland - 8
New Jersey -7
Iowa - 7
Maine - 6
Texas - 6
Virginia - 5
Minnesota - 4
Nebraska - 3
Tennessee - 3
Oregon - 2
Washington - 2
West Virginia - 2
Vermont - 2
New Hampshire - 1
Rhode Island - 1
South Dakota - 1

Tim
 

I am trying to follow your analysis, but I find it confusing. First of all, as you know, the T206 set comprises of 389 different
players. So, something isn't adding up with your numbers, please clarify. When we consider all 389, my math shows that only
11 (added Coles & Fritz) are from what was referred to as the deep South in the T206 era. That still is only 2.8 % of the set.

Incidently, there are two Ed Foster's....one from Chicago and the other from Georgia....which one is in the T206 set ?

And, I'm proud to say that Pennsylvania leads all the other states as the birthplace of the 389 guys in the T206 set.


TED Z

Deep South
 

Hi Ted,

I don't think anybody has listed all 389 T206 subjects by birth state so we may have incomplete information. Tim's research shows that a lot of states had poor representation in the T206 set.

Almost all the major league franchises were in the NE and Midwest U.S. So it makes sense that most players are from those states. In that way, the owner 'magnates' were biased geographically. From my research, 1910 era players mercilessly made fun of players from the Deep South, but also rubes from farm towns, college boys, players who looked different, and players from other parts of the U.S. They were fighting to keep their jobs, and win games with mental warfare. Was there a bias against the Deep South? Yes.

Ron

T206 Ed Foster - Charleston

Ted - Sorry my explanations are confusing. Feel free to call me anytime.

I don't have recorded the birth places of all 389 players in the T206 set. To date I have 341 and used the information I do have, though incomplete, for my comparison.

To compare the deep south states to the following would certainly seem like there was a bias.

Pennsylvania - 67
Ohio - 48
New York - 43
Illinois - 27

But when you take those states out and compare the deep south to other parts of the country they have similar numbers that would show that the representation in the T206 set is not proof of bias.

Was there bias against the south? Surely there was, but it isn't reflected in the number of representatives in the T206 set. The 12 players in the "deep south" group have 17 different cards in the set.

Tim - I agree with your posts here - I don't see Joe Jax being an intentional snub from T206 and therefore not from any of the later sets that re-used the T206 artwork - no player had new artwork commissioned for them for the later issues.

Ron
 

Some years back, I researched all 389 (or is it 399) players in the T206 set. I am not about to type in all this info.
It looks like Tim has done the same. So, you are left to trust our data or check it out yourself.

But, I have to differ with you regarding your....
"Almost all the major league franchises were in the NE and Midwest U.S. So it makes sense that most players are
from those states."


Back then, and over the years, there have been some great players from Texas and California. In California's case,
it is very understandable, because of the PCL. Now, let's get back to Shoeless Joe. From the Connie Mack biography,
that I alluded to in an earlier post, I'm paraphrasing some quotes with respect to Joe......

As a teenager, Joe was a ditch digger at the mills and developed powerful muscles. This translated into his powerful
hits and the ability to throw a BB about 400 feet.

According to Connie Mack, the sound of the crack of the bat when Joe hit the ball was something he had never heard
of before.

Connie Mack once said that Joe hit the longest HR that he ever saw, it traveled over 500 feet as it cleared the roof of
the stadium.

Connie Mack, who mainly recruited Collegians (Mack always contended that College coaching was better than any Minor
Laegue coaching), had a lot of hope for Joe with the A's. However, Joe wouldn't "toe-the-line" with the A's policies and
he hated being in the big city of Philly.


TED Z

Hey Matt
 

American Litho. (ALC) did not need to have....."new artwork commissioned " (to use your words).....regarding Joe Jax.
For, as we all know they had printed him in their 1910 OLD MILL (series 8) set.

Therefore, it was a simple matter to re-use this image, and re-do his uniform and caption to reflect Cleveland in their
subsequent T-card issues (T213, T214, T215).

Indeed, ALC modified their T206 1909 images to produce subsequent cards in 1910 and 1911 for the following subjects......


G. Brown
M. Brown
Chance
Chase
Cobb
Dahlen
Demmitt
Elberfeld
Evers
Kleinow
Lundgren
O'Hara
F. Smith


TED Z

Ted this is getting a bit redundant - Tim above already explained:

"American Litho did not repeat the T210 images in the other sets. The other sets repeated the T206 images including T210. All of the sets that utilized the T206 images will not include Joe Jackson. "

Perhaps a poll would be of interest here?

Peter by all means if you think it would be beneficial or add something. I don't see how if the results were 50/50 they would change the facts.

It really isn't a complicated reason JJ was excluded from T206 and the T brand sets that use the same images.

Any claim of snubbing or prejudice against him in relation to the T206 set is a red herring.

This has been fun to read, and I have been learning alot in this thread.Tim, I think you gave the best and most convincing explanation in post#55. Not saying anyone else is wrong- just stating my opinion after reading this thread through a few times.

Clayton

Tim does make some valid points, once again, and any other explanation regrading Jackson's exclusion from the set is at best far fetched.

Shoeless Joe Jax DIVERSION, why isn't he in any 1911-1917 major T or E-card sets ?
 

Tim......two more things regarding the T206 Joe Jax enigma......then we move on to another ATC mystery.

1st...."T206 Ed Foster - Charleston"....is his team. Where was Foster born? There were two Ed Foster's in BB during that era.
One is Edward Cunningham Foster (Chicago) and the other is Eddy Lee Foster (Alabama) ?

2nd......Your contention that all subsequent ATC sets are "slaved" to the T206 images may not be totally correct. American
Litho. was printing the 350-only series in the Spring of 1910. Simultaneously, they were printing the T210's. Recall, that 14
of the Southern Leaguer's are "350-only" subjects. So, it isn't certain that these images were T206's before they were T210's.
Three of these (off the top of my head) are Hart, Smith (Shrev.) and Thebo. So, I would not be so sure that all images were
first T206's....because from a printing standpoint the colorless T210 images were first thru the press.


For all you skeptics that have responded here that do not buy a bias against Joe Jax, then let's hear your explanation on this
mystery. The HINDU brand was mainly marketed in New York state and New England states. It's cigarette factory (#649) was
the Kimball plant in Rochester, NY.
Approx. 180-T206's exist with the HINDU back, including all the major stars, except for Ty Cobb. Furthermore, the SWEET CAP-
ORAL 150, Fac. 649 (overprint) series includes all the major stars, except for Ty Cobb. Do you dig where I'm heading with this ?

Well, this intrigue gets better....the T205 Cobb exists with 6 (or 7) backs, except for HINDU. And finally, The T201 set does not
portray Cobb in full picture on the front. This MECCA set relegates Cobb to the dinky picture on the back of Crawford. Oh Yes....
MECCA cigarettes were produced at Factory #649, just like the above brands.

Gentleman, are these clear examples of excluding Cobb due to Northern predjudice......OR WHAT ?

If you think not, I can't wait to hear your rationalizations on this mystery ?


TED Z

T206 Ed Foster - Charleston...Edward Lee Foster (b. Georgia)


The sets that you have questioned T213, T214, and T215 were not slaves to the images, they were slaves to the 6 color lithograph printing process which T210 were not. Just because they had a Joe Jax image didn't mean that they had six plates to print it in a lithograph format.

And we know for a fact that they did not add any new 6 color prints after the completion of the T206 set to later sets that used the identical images.

And lastly after doing further research today I can tell you that James Lafitte - Macon, and Edward Reagan - New Orleans previously being shown as birth place unknown were both born in Georgia.

And for you Ted, Billy Nattress - Buffalo was born in PA.

Boss Schmidt was from Coal Hill, Arkansas.
Ooops, sorry Ron, you already had him listed. There was a flood of talent from Arkansas in the major leagues but it didn't begin until the 30's and 40's with Hall of Famers Travis Jackson, Arky Vaughn, Dizzy Dean, Bill Dickey, etc.

Didn't Hindu produce a number of Southern Leaguers? Does that rebut any notion of prejudice?

I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to ask this question and Peter thank you for doing it.

In a set of cards containing just under 400 players, 48 are in their own subgroup known as "Southern Leaguers." Yet somehow this company had a southern bias. There is IMO absolutely no evidence there was bias and at this point it's speculation with no facts to back it up.

And to preempt any response on Cobb. He was one of the most prolific cards in the T206 set. He was a super print, had four front images, and his own back brand (arguably T206.) Not being printed at one factory does not automatically mean bias. I personally would need proof of bias and not just lack of any other explanation before I made that type of accusation.

Bob M......
 

Regarding your......
" Boss Schmidt was from Coal Hill, Arkansas.
Ooops, sorry Ron, you already had him listed. There was a flood of talent from Arkansas in the major leagues but it
didn't begin until the 30's and 40's with Hall of Famers Travis Jackson, Arky Vaughn, Dizzy Dean, Bill Dickey, etc. "

Since, Arkansas was not considered the deep South back in the T206 era, I would of expected more BB players from
Arkansas in the T206 set. All this changed after WWI, where the early predjudices by some of the ball club owners
began to vanish. And, as you noted, this new "Southern wave" in BB began in the 1920's and 1930's.

By the way, don't forget my favorite Arkansan (besides Bill Dickey)....Johnny Sain.

TED Z