Uncovered the mysteries of T206museum and OM black overprint backs
 

Jon:

This is what Jim R. & I were discussing. Wasn't it T206museum.com that started the claim that they found a T206 in a 12 count box? If so, we now know it was a lie the whole time.

.

100% in LEON'S corner on this one folks!!!

We are dealing with a bottom feeder that Rob has patronized for God knows what reason

Chan is scum and should be arrested for what he did.

I am available in person to fly to Chicago for any indictment and I think we should STRONGLY persue the local authorities as the FBI obviously can't be bothered.

THIS IS BS

Dan MCKEE

Uncovered the mysteries of T206museum and OM black overprint backs
 

Saw this:

http://forloveofthecards.blogspot.co...was-fraud.html

Very well put!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PATRICK CHAN AKA SLIME BALL SCUM BAG

As someone who has only been collecting pre-war cards for a little over a year now, this really sucks. I can pick out the obvious fakes but when it comes to less common t and e cards I'm sometimes weary of raw and I stick to slabbed examples. Now I know there are people out there slabbing fakes just for shits and giggles. Yeah this guy belongs in jail and should be deported when he's released. Ridiculous.

Thought there were two E94 fake overprints. I stand corrected.:(

Wow!!!

PS. Dan M., did those scans I sent you last month help in this investigation? Hope so, I see they no longer are showing on the older posts from 2005 etc.

BS
 

This so called apology is total BS. Sure, he is sorry now that he has been exposed. Charges need to filed. He needs to be in jail.

My guess is that more and more shady deals will be exposed as time goes on.

Rick

FRANK WARD my very dear friend. Your scans were more helpful than you can imagine and please accept my STRICT apology for not mentioning your name.

Your scans were crucial to the entire investigation and you desrve a ton of credit!!! John and Jim will back me on this for sure.

My apologies to my dear old friend but please find sanctuary in knowing you truly helped in catching this miserable scum bag thief!

Dan

Well put Rick!!!

How can one steal, get caught, pay back partially and walk??????????

Is this the precedence we are setting ????

Hell honest people should start stealing with that minimal risk!

Wow - You miss a day on the board and look what happens. Chan's explanation of why he created those cards isn't worth the bandwidth he used to post it. The fact is, like most of us all have stated is that it is simply pathetic and, professionally speaking, I would love to use it in cross-examination.
As a collector, though, it is sad and I tend to agree with Barry about the repercussions of this fraud. Just like a "certificate of authenticity" is only as good as the ethics of the expert signing it, this is a reminder that a graded card is no better than the eyes, expertise and ethics of the grader. Sad all the way around.

Two further thoughts:

Jeff - If Chan tries to retain you and tries to pay you with a Cobb back, you might want to think about that...

And, I think proper casting for the telenovella of this fiasco means that Bond73/Chan be played by... Alan Rosen

I've been watching these threads for a couple of days now, and after reading all this, here's my opinion:

1) I don't recall there being any broken English on T206museum.com. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but the person who wrote that website seemed to write fairly well. Perhaps Mr. Chan should have used his copy editor prior to starting this thread.

2) Anyone who deliberately tries to dupe a grading company with a homemade Franken-card is not helping the hobby. Anyone who tries to do that is an ass.

3) Mr. Chan doesn't belong in jail, but that's only because he got caught too soon. That card would have been sold in REA if it wasn't discovered first - not because it made REA more "complete" but because it was an opportunity for Mr. Chan to make some cash.

4) If you can fool a grading company or an auction house with a phony overprint or underprint or error card or variation, that doesn't impress me. At all. And it doesn't cause me to lose faith in the grading companies, either. All it does is show me you're an ass.

It reminds me of the idiots who try and sneak a knife past airport security, then go on the news to tell everyone how they did it. Want to help airport security? Look for suspicious behavior, be quiet, do the things you're supposed to do, behave. Want to be an ass? Smuggle a knife in your carry-on and then crow about how bad airport security is. They may not be 100% foolproof, but they're keeping you much safer than you'd be if they weren't there, and all your ridiculous yammering is just putting ideas in other people's heads. I can understand the desire to want to fly safely, but there are more effective ways of helping than by trying to make them look incompetent.

Guys like Wonka are more helpful to the hobby than armchair scientists like Mr. Chan could ever hope to be.

-Al

Restitution...
 

I have a suggestion for restitution. If Mr. Chan would consign his T206 collection to a major auction house with the proceeds going to a major charity then I am sure that the members of this board might give him another chance... or maybe not... Mr. Chan, if you are really sorry you will need to prove it with a little more than words and a couple of hundred bucks... just my opinion...

According to Mr. Chan's spreadsheet, he only owns 4 cards:

1. Ed Abbaticchio (Blue Sleeves)
2. Ed Abbaticchio (Brown Sleeves)
3. Fred Abbott
4. Bill Abstein

Total: $3800

http://t206museum.com/data_/T206Database3.zip

BTW: Everything except 2 spreadsheets have been deleted from the T206museuem website. All the articles, pictures, etc. are gone.

Unfortunately, as long as there is someone is willing to pay big money for these cards there are going to be people out there trying to create a supply for the demand.

T206 Museum Nightmare
 

Its so sad that these things have to happen but the real reality is as long as there is money to be made on any valuable item the Patrick Chans of the world will continue to thrive as long as there are buyers out there willing to put up big money for rare big ticket items that no one else has. Some will be caught others willnot. A great case in point is the $20 gold St Gaudens Double Eagles. Years past until someone finally figured out that many of them were faked with a small Omega mark on the back. The infamous OMEGA MAN who baffled some of the best experts for years was never caught. If it wasnt for greed it may never have been found out.

copy and paste from that spreadsheet

PLAYER OWN BACK CODE BACKING

1. Ed Abbaticchio (Blue Sleeves) x 1 Old Mill (Southern League - Double Overprints) - Factory 649 - District 1 - State NY

2. Ed Abbaticchio (Brown Sleeves) x 5 Broad Leaf - Series 460 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA

3. Fred Abbott x 23 American Beauty (no Frame) - Series 350 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA

4. Bill Abstein x 17 Cycle - Series 460 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA

Ed Abbaticchio was not one of the 4 cards he admitted to making with the bar overprints-is this a fifth?

very good info Richard!

Jim and Richard,

You two got this all wrong. I don't own the spreadsheet and not the one who created it. I received that from a collector call Mike Poland a few wks ago. His email address is mikejpoland@aol.com. You can email him and verify. His was the one who created the other spreadsheet as well. I didn't checked what he put in the spreadsheet but he said he used my pricing formula putting that spreadsheet together. There's no fifth one.

Pat

Pat, are you the only person behind t206museum.com?

Dan,

Yes.

Pat

Dang- "Bobs" are really taking a beating on this board! :rolleyes:

tbob

Perhaps we should put all Bobs in quarantine until we get this sorted out. The Mikes too, just to be safe.

Chan needs a Blanket Party.
Veterans will understand

I really hope you have to go to jail, pay a very large fine, or both.

Pat
I kinda agree with the Abbaticchio because it doesn't fit -he is not a southern leaguer so no south back to start with.

Richard,

I am not the first one claiming Pied 12 count packs might contain T206s.
Back in 1992, Beckett had an article about an antique store owner bought and owned a Pied 12 count pack and believe to have T206 inside. Such article was on my site with proper references.

I have very little information on the Hagar piedmont packs, I only have a image of the catalog and not quite sure when did that happened.

DJR,

Where did u obtain your Piedmont 12 count packs that you sold me? Were they from Hagar?


I still guaranteed I have never altered or tampered with the unopened Piedmont 12 count pack that I have in the GAI holder. I did pulled a t206 out of one of them which is a reality. I am willing to go thru a lie detector testing and fingerprints test on this matter and most of all I still guaranteed
a full refund if someone bought it then opened it and found no card inside.

Pat

Pat- your English skills improved dramatically with your last post. Quick learner?

WHOA! Nice catch Barry. I totally missed that.

J

Barry,

University of Phoenix, online?

Pat, your 'guarantee' is a joke as are you. I have a question: are you an American citizen?

Uncovered the mysteries of T206museum and OM black overprint backs
 

I refuse to believe that T206's came in 12 count boxes. Just because Chan says one did, doesn't make it true. Chan has deleted all the articles from his website, so how can we verify his last statement & witnesses about the card pulled from a 12 count pack? Can anyone else come up with a 12 count pack other than Chan's, that had a card in it? I don't think so.

Leon: Ban Chan! :)

Ban Chan?
 

If I had banned Chan already he couldn't have come on the board to give his thoughts. Except for being a psychopath on the board I am not sure he has broken board rules. Now that being said the fact he has done all that he has is more than enough for a ban but I think for the minute I would like for him to be able to come on the board to address issues. I will reserve the future, normal, moderator banning privileges though...;)

Uncovered the mysteries of T206museum and OM black overprint backs
 

Just joking Leon. I like watching the idiot hang himself on this public forum.

Richard - the pack that was sold in REA in 2008 was a 12-count which had been opened with a card inside. I soke with the owner/consignor of the pack a few times and he is certainly a very honest man (who has a very advanced card collection). As stated before, however, there is no doubt 12 count packs were not authorized by to be issued until 1917. So, here are the possibilities:

1.) 12 count packs which contain cards are "fake" packs with cards being inserted into them after the fact.

2.) T-206s were issued well after the distribution date of 1911 and in fact, appeared in packs as late as 1917.

3.) L&M broke the law and issued 12 count cigarette packs before 1917 (unlikely as the cig packs contain 12 count tax stamps on them that, according to revenue laws, could not have appeared before 1917); or

4.) The government, in fact, issued some 12 count cigarette packs before 1917 despite revenue laws that did not allow them to.

Perhaps as a punishment Chan should be relegated to another forum where fake overprints/underprints are accepted (along with animal abuse and marrying one's sister)?

Uncovered the mysteries of T206museum and OM black overprint backs
 

Here is the text from T206 museum:

"The owner purchased two of these packs from the previous owner who bought them from an unopened Piedmont packs find decades ago. The owner opened one of the lesser condition pack and unexpectedly pulling a T206 Jim McGinley from the pack (as picture shown below).

This pack has 12 cigarettes inside and was manufactured in Factory No. 25 of the 2nd Dist. of Virginia which (obviously) matches all the characteristic of tobacco packs that house T206 or T205 baseball cards.

Could this pack contain a gem mint Honus Wagner that could grade better than a PSA-8? Could the misspelled "Magie" reside inside? Could Plank lie quietly slumbering? How about a mint green background Cobb? Or a gem mint T206 common that could easily sold for more than the price of the pack.

Despite the fact that a few collectors believe Piedmont pack manufactured by "Liggett & Myers" were issued after 1911 and believe T206s can only be pulled from 10 cigarettes style tobacco packs, what we have here definitely disprove those "theories". These tobacco packs were manufactured a hundred year ago and there were no precise records dating these packs. All those "theories" were just speculation and much is not known with certainty about tobacco packs. However, we have solid proves to support the Piedmont pack that offering here do enclose a tobacco card since the date it was manufactured.

This Piedmont pack is the finest known to exist and has been graded a GAI-9.5 GEM-MINT and guaranteed unopened. Wax wrapper seals are 100% intact. GAI labeled the pack as "1909-1919 Piedmont Baseball Tobacco Pack". GAI guaranteed this Piedmont pack is unopened and untampered with. The owner GUARANTEED this pack contains a T206 or T205 baseball card. If you wish to experience pulling a tobacco baseball card from a hundred year old unopened tobacco pack then this is your chance (possibly the only chance).

There is a similar opened Piedmont pack with T206 Herman Armbruster enclosed sold in Robert Edward Auctions. Please refer to "1910 Piedmont Pack with T206 Card Enclosed!"

Price: $30,000
Email f-a-q@t206museum.com for details if you are interested."

"The Owner" is not clearly identified.
Jon: The card was inserted somewhere after the 1990's. Wouldn't be surprised if it was Pat Chan that did it.

What outstanding writing. Clearly the author has an outstanding command of the English language.

-Al

"Could the Plank lie quietly slumbering" seems beyond the linguistic reach of someone who is challenged by the English language. What's the real deal here?

Either the broken English is faked or there is a second person in the mix doing the writing.

J

You will find a few more names on the site donation section linked in the booklet. One name stands out Ripul Jain. I find it interesting to say the least that he’s listed on Chan’s facebook and works in web development of some sort….they also live in the same town...but that doesn't link him other than he and Chan our most likely pals etc.

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...ntitled-20.jpg

Did the T206museum have a fairly decent reputation???

wow, this really stinks!

Uncovered the mysteries of T206museum and OM black overprint backs
 

I have not been on the site too much the last few weeks, but what a story - it really has been hard to trust anyone in the hobby with so many problems. I really hope things improve and these types of stories slow down.

Jimmy

and while plank lies slumbering....
 

In the next paragraph, we have this grammatical gem.

" However, we have solid proves to support the Piedmont pack that offering here do enclose a tobacco card since the date it was manufactured."

Uncovered the mysteries of T206museum and OM black overprint backs
 

I researched their domain and the registration of it. They are using a completely fake address and no contact information...... No one would do this unless you are trying to hide something....

Also why are you never able to right click on any images, they had the site locked down.... Again trying to hide things....

Look below for the domain info....


Your WHOIS Search Results

t206museum.com
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Registrant:
t206museum
206 Museum St.
Anaheim, CA 59345
US

Domain name: T206MUSEUM.COM


Administrative Contact:
Museum, t206 t206museum@hotmail.com
206 Museum St.
Anaheim, CA 59345
US
568-456-3456
Technical Contact:
Hostmaster, Domain contact@DreamHost.com
DreamHost
DreamHost, DreamHost DreamHost
US
604-434-4307 Fax: 604-608-6832



Registrar of Record: In2net Network Inc.
Record last updated on 01-Jul-2008.
Record expires on 27-Jun-2013.
Record created on 27-Jun-2000.

Domain servers in listed order:
NS2.DREAMHOST.COM 66.201.54.66
NS1.DREAMHOST.COM 66.33.206.206


Domain status: clientTransferProhibited
clientUpdateProhibited

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The previous information has been obtained either directly from the registrant or a registrar of the domain name other than Network Solutions. Network Solutions, therefore, does not guarantee its accuracy or completeness.

Show underlying registry data for this record



Current Registrar: IN2NET NETWORK, INC.
IP Address: 208.113.178.39 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-CALIFORNIA-BREA
Record Type: Domain Name
Server Type: Apache 2
Lock Status: clientTransferProhibited
Web Site Status: Active
DMOZ 2 listings
Y! Directory: see listings
Secure: No
E-commerce: Yes
Traffic Ranking: 1
Data as of: 22-Apr-2008

If anyone is interested in finding information like this you can go to www.networksolutions.com and click on the whois link and then type in the web domain name.....


Dan

The right click thing on the website was probably to project their images from easily being copied and downloaded by visitors. There's nothing wrong with that particular practice.