Dave and Howard,

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. It's just that I was burned on a couple of Clemente sigs early on, and I vowed never to let it happen again.

I remember the name of Clemente's "alleged" ghost-signer, it was Phil Dorsey. It's possible this item was signed in the late 1960's by Dorsey and then the test could have been produced. I don't have the knowledge on Topps test issues that the both of you do, my opinion was only on the auto.

Here are some more of mine to compare:

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...teSigned1b.jpg http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...esTmSigned.jpg http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...menteAutoA.jpg http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...emente3x5a.jpg

Here are some that are not mine, but I saved scans:

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...gleSigned1.jpg http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...rd1CloseUp.jpg http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...ck10-14-72.jpg http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/r...hot1960sBk.jpg

Note the differences in how Clemente formed the letter "T", also the "Best" in Best Wishes, the formation of "b" in Roberto, the legs in the "R" in Roberto,etc. I would not bet my life on it, but like I said I have seen A LOT of Clemente autos and although there are some variances in his legit signature, they still have the same characteristics.

Mike

Here's a link to my blog post on the 67 Poster Sticker (scroll down near the bottom for back scan) and a front scan for reference.

http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/se...Red%20Herrings

Thank you to Mike and Dave for all the input trying to solidify an opinion. As much as I AM a self proclaimed expert on Clemente issued cards and memorabilia, I am NOT in the least bit qualified to offer an opinion on his signature. I decided years ago not to even try as the thought of forgeries was too scary. Scared to the point that I passed on an opportunity to purchase a 30+ year collection of over 100 signed Clemente items(about 18 years ago). That said, I am very familiar with Phil Dorsey ( A close friend of Clemente's )and the realtively universal thought that he signed many Clemente ghost signatures. I did not buy the pin up for the autograph. In fact, I bought it despite it. I wish it wasn't there - perhaps one day if I get a consensus of opinions that it is not good I will try to wipe it off
(Just kidding. Did I get you?) While some might disagree, imo the scarcity/potential unique status of the item far outweighs any value/added value the signature has. To end, a question, would there be some potential variation attributable to the style of pen and surface? And the conversation continues................

Don't think it would be much of a problem. I cut three complete 1984 Topps Proof (encased) sets perfectly...each from a single big sheet. Just a fraction off at the start will mess up each new row, the last cards will end up OC.

Had one set graded, went from sheet to slabs with an 8.8 GPA...nothing below an 8. Global was the only one who would grade them (see below). Not sure I would feel very comfortable cutting another collectors cards though.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6...sproof2lp8.jpg


Kevin Saucier
.
.
.

What did you cut them with? How did you keep them from slipping? As you can see on the sheet I want to cut, I have a lot of room for error. Thanks.

1973 Topps test issue (of 1953)
 

Topps issued a limited production test issue designed in the style of their 1953 cards.


<img src="http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/1972toppspaige.jpg" alt="[linked image]">


Only these 8 cards are in this set........

1......"Satchell" Paige
2......Jackie Robinson
3......Carl Furillo (picture actually Johnny Antonelli)
4......Al Rosen (picture actually Jim Fridley)
5......Hal Newhouser
6......Clyde McCollough (picture actually Vic Janowicz)
7......"Peanuts" Lowery
8......Johnny Mize

I will post the other 7 cards later.


TED Z

1953 Reprint
 

Ted
I have a set of these too. I have often wondered if there was not some sort of gag or joke involved in their production since 3 of 8 are wrong.
Al

1973 test issue
 

ALR

This test issue has always been a quite a mystery to me.

Why only 8 cards; and, (as you said said) how did they foul up on 3 of them ?

My understanding is that less than 200 sets were issued. Perhaps, some one on this forum
will chime in that has some knowledge of this issue.


TED Z

Here's a 1973 Test Jackie Robinson... Ted, I heard the same about the set and that it was issued at some type of luncheon/meeting with Management?

Mike

I blogged this almost a year ago, based upon info from The Trader Speaks:

http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/se...opps%20Reprint

Dave
 

Thanks for posting the link regarding this 1972 Topps test issue......very informative.

I always thought this set was a 1972 issue. But, Krause's Standard Catalog identifies
it as a 1973 issue....

So, which year was it issued ? ?


TED Z

The whole thing is bizarre if you ask me, almost like they were sitting around having a few pops at the plant in Duryea and some had a "fun idea". Any why are they not referred to as "Baseball Stars", which appears to be the proper name for the set.

FWIW some people have questioned the accuracy of some items that appeared in TTS over the years, including this particular story. I think my explanation makes as much sense as anything else.

1972 Topps Fun Idea After A Few Pops Set
 

Maybe Dave's name will catch Bob L's fancy for the next edition

Bump. Anymore test issue stuff to show? Still don't have an answer as to how/where to cut my sheet? Anybody? Thanks.

-Howard

Here are some of my rare Johnny Bench issues....

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...JohnnyBenc.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...eJohnnyB-1.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...yBenchPSA8.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...Benchpsa10.jpg

Have a 68T 3D Clemente Square Proof, a regular 68T 3D Perez, a few 80T Pepsi Proofs and 68T Action Sticker progression proofs, 67T Sticker Clemente...among others.

Mark

I only have 3 Topps test issues - the 1968 Plak and Disc, and the 1969 Super of Harmon Killebrew. I used to own most of the Plaks, several 1955 stamps, a 1961 Dice Game of Earl Battey, some 1970 Cloth Stickers and Candy Lids, some Punchouts and full sets of some of the easier issues like the 1974 Puzzles and 1967 Boston and Pittsburgh stickers. I never dreamed when I sold everything off around 20 years ago that it would be so hard to find them again; as late as 1991 the scarcest things I had barely fetched $100. Oh well. I'm still looking for a 1968 single panel Killebrew Action All-Star Sticker, and a 1967 Giant Stand-Up...

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/q...on40/super.jpg

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/q...son40/plak.jpg

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/q...son40/disc.jpg

1968 killebrew disc
 

can use the disc
any interest?

Maybe - email sent

1988 Cloth
 

Here are a few Rose's I own just got the 88 cloth in very bizarre card literally feels like a paper towel no rigidity to it either surprised topps could even print them.

http://www.4192cards.com/rose/topps/...ToppsCloth.jpg

http://www.4192cards.com/rose/topps/...iniSticker.jpg

http://www.4192cards.com

What a great site!

Mike

Thanks for the praise Mike

Impressive site and collection!

Can any experts out there educate me on what Topps test issues are somewhat misnamed, in that they were probably never test-marketed?

It seems to me that the 1967 and 1968 discs are just proofs that never made it to the marketing stage - correct?

How about the 1967 Giant Stand-Ups? Were the non-proof variety ever tested, or is this issue in all its variations just something from Gelman's closet? I know there was a wrapper, but I think I've only ever seen one example.

How about the 1973 comics and pin-ups? I think I've only ever seen (a picture of) one example folded around gum - all the others I've seen have been fold-free. Any reason to think these were ever really tested anywhere as gum wrappers?

Is it safe to assume the 1955 stamps, 1970, 1972 and 1976 cloth stickers and 1966 punch-outs never saw any kind of test distribution?

I think there's some anecdotal evidence that the 1968 plaks and 1961 dice game may have been tested on some very limited basis?

How about the 1970 candy lids? Are they ever found attached to a tub, or with bent tabs? All the ones I've seen have looked unused/unissued.

Thanks.

I had 68 Plaks at one point
 

Which I bought at my local grocery store in New Jersey

Rich

I have an unopened 68 Plak pack and set and a set ot the 73 Comics and Pin Ups, plus an unopened 73 Comic pack. I have the 67 Discs, both Giants and All Stars, but they are on uncut sheets. I only have a handful of the 68 discs, all cut. I still need 4 of the 67 Stand Ups, but my partial set has a mix of proofs and the finished die cuts.

I have the 67 Punch outs, and a damaged package with 2 uncut strips. Do not have any of the 66s.

I have all the Cloth sets, with the exception of the 70s....Bob is pigging all those :-). No Dice either --Larry and Bob are both pigging those :-) .

I have only I one 55 stamp and unfortunately it is Don Mossi and the only thing you can see is ears.

I can't argue with your conclusions other than I do not think the 61 Dice saw any real distribution to the public

Major Topps proofs (that would be a great name for a drunk soldier), never tested at retail IMO:

55 Stamps
61 Dice
66 Punchouts (not the ones with the lineups)
67 3-D (the Brooks Robinson prototype)
67 Stand Ups without die cuts
67 Discs
68 Discs (all types)
70 Cloth Stickers
71 Rookie All Stars
72 Cloth Stickers
76 Cloth
80 Coins

I have the 80 Coins, the 72 and 76 Cloths, and the 67 Discs.

Zip on the 61 Dice, 70 Cloth, 66 Punch Outs and 71 Artists Proofs.

Have one 55 Stamp and 4 68 Discs. About half of my 20 67 Stand Ups are the proof, non die cut variety.

I have a set of the 68 3Ds minus the Robinson prototype, but, Dave, there are two other proof cards involving that set that have surfaced that should probably be included with the Robinson...Can not recall the names, one was a no name Reds pitcher. Bob will remember. He remembers everything

68 3D wasn't there an issued card of John O'Donoughue? I think that one had no writing on the front..just the 3D image...if I'm not mistaken.

Ricky Y

There are three unissued proofs in that set but the set itself was issued.

I purchased my 73 Topps Comic Tom Seaver off of ebay still wrapped around the gum. It was hell to open it up to display it. But I think it's a safe bet this was in a store back in 1973.

I assume those crazy 1988 Topps cloth (paper towel) cards were never issued to the public, but don't really know.