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I would go with the following 5 righties: Foxx Hornsby Mays Aaron Delahanty |
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But in his years with the Angels, Pujols was not productive at all. In his 10 years with the Angels, he was basically Eric Hosmer. He hit only 222 homeruns, and slashed .256/.311/.447, with an OPS+ of 108. Eric Hosmer's career so far is 196 HRs, .277/.336/.428 and an OPS+ of 108. Overall, Pujols' career OPS+ of 145 is tied for 51st all time, and just 19th among non-juicing, modern-era right handers. Putting him in the top 5 is a reach. Frank Thomas and Frank Robinson were feared hitters in their primes, and also were feared hitters well into their 30's. They are both deserving of the top 5 more than Pujols. |
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I think it's also important to discuss Peak Vs. Longevity/Consistency when it comes to this debate. Just food for thought. |
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Living out here has taught me that the famous (and misappropriated) Mark Twain quote, "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco," is a huge understatement. Even playing softball in these parts on a windswept 'summer' (Ha!!) day is a nightmare. New quote proposal: "In New York, they have the wind chill factor in winter. In San Francisco, they have it in summer!" (Take that, fake Mark Twain!!) |
I think Dimaggio was a bit of a jerk from what books I’ve read. And I’d bet his anti-social whatever disorder helped him to basically have ice in his veins. 56 everyone… and then another 20…
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And throw in 9 rings in what, 13 years in cavernous old school yankee stadium. 9 rings! We shower Jordan with his five rings, and rightfully so. Bro’s, I hear you all. Never struck out. Don’t ever forget how meaningful it is to put the ball in play. There’s a good argument that Joe D was the best player ever. Again, he was not a good person. Dude was a winner on par with basically no one…
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My bad. It was a coincidence…
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How many rings does Ted Williams get if he was a Yankee? So maybe coincidence is a little strong, but not much. |
He was a regular Mr. October, what with that [checks notes] .271 average and 0.8 home runs per year.
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If you go by offensive WAR, it's Mays and Aaron.
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For me it's a tough call between Aaron or Mays but I am leaning a bit towards Hammerin Hank since the post says best hitter and not best all around player.
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Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk |
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Dimaggio's MVP in 1947 is a joke and shouldn't be used to make a case for anything. Ted Williams CRUSHED him in everything that year, winning the Triple Crown. |
There's a bartender in CenLa that swears it's Manny Ramirez.
I told my brother to ask Chatgpt who was better at 2nd base, Horsnby or Altuve, and it equivocated, talking about different eras. I told him to ask it to compare Hornsby and Jose Oquendo, and it begrudgingly admitted that Hornsby was better. I would say Aaron, although I did not see him in his prime. I saw Kingman hit a homerun in the Astrodome that was unreal. I'd say Kingman or Madlock. |
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If you say so. He won the MVP, finished with a 147 OPS+ the next year and then joined the military. He comes back from the military to put up a 142 OPS and wins the MVP the following season. His career OPS+ is exactly the same as Aaron and Mays so I do believe with three prime seasons he would have surpassed their OPS+. |
Who was the all time best right handed base stealer?
Among right handed players, who was the all time best at hitting home runs? Among right handed players, who was the all time best at getting on base? Among all right handed players, who was the best at scoring runs? Among all right handed players, who was the best at contributing Wins to his team above a replacement level player (WAR)? Now... get all of that out of your head... And consider the question at hand, who was the best all time right handed hitter? Rogers Hornsby. |
I think DiMaggio is sort of the Sandy Koufax of position players. The stats will never come close to supporting it, but there is a certain kind of romantic fan who will always insist he is the best there ever was, just because.
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Derek Jeter!
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Has anyone attempted to figure out how to properly weight hitting stats in the 20s and 30s when pitching was pretty bad v.s. the 50s and 60s when pitching was much better? I find it hard to compare Hornsby and Mays/Aaron because Hornsby faced so many bad pitchers who wouldn't have been in the league in the 50s and 60s.
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Watching his last game now. It is at the bottom of the 2nd inning. |
It’s all so silly. Aaron, Mays, or Dimaggio. Throw in Rogers Hornsby if you want. There is no definitive answer. They were all great. Who on earth can dis those players? From a baseball career perspective that is. But I still hold with the guy who has nine rings. Nine. Not one, not three, 9! And he had everything to do with most of them. Go read Summer of ‘49. Again guy was a jerk, but might have been the best player ever…
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Compare that to Jimmie Foxx, playing in hitters parks, who hit 299 at home and 235 on the road. On the road, DiMaggio hit a HR one in every 16.25 AB, Foxx one in every 18.08. They both hit .325, but Foxx's 30 point advantage in SLG is more than offset by their difference home parks. Joe was the better power hitter, even missing 3 prime years serving in WWII. I have DiMaggio as a slightly better hitter overall than Foxx. |
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I don't know if it does a good job or a poor job...but supposedly OPS+ does adjust for ballparks.
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Joe also won three MVP awards. His second MVP two seasons before he left and his third MVP two seasons after he came back. You can't assume an MVP award, but if he had played those three extra seasons and won another, he'd be the only player other than Bonds with 4 or more MVPs.
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I would add one more era, a combo era; 2nd Live ball/Modern era 1990's-present. You can add Pujols, Cabrera, Trout, Frank Thomas etc to get their proper due as they played in a much different era than Mays too. |
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Dead Ball Era - Honus Wagner Pre-integration Live Ball Era - Rogers Hornsby Modern Era - Willie Mays I agree and really like that classification by era and would potentially have no problem with adding a 90's to Present However, as a based purely on the Best Righty Hitter I am sticking with Hornsby above the rest |
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Hornsby doesn't get his proper due. Overall, Hornsby out-hit Cobb and Cobb is always mentioned in the greatest ever hitter convo. Cobb .366/.433/.512 OPS+ 168 Hornsby .358/.434/.577 OPS+ 175 |
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Unless I've missed it, I'm going to throw out a name that absolutely belongs in the discussion, and may in fact be the top guy: Josh Gibson. His entire stat sheet on baseball reference is just bold everywhere.
Edit - I missed it, one other poster mentioned Gibson previously. The rest of my point stands. |
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Still, Dick Allen had it worse. He played his home games at Connie Mack, Comiskey, Veterans, Chavez Ravine, and Busch Memorial. All big parks, most with high walls and lots of room in foul territory. Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk |
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Dick Allen was brought up above and how he played in pitchers parks. Here is the dilemma. Was Allen really hurt by his parks? Allen's lifetime Home OPS was .932 Allen's lifetime road OPS was .892 Players generally have a littler better hitting in their home park(independent of park factors), but here Allen has more than a little better hitting at home. So the question is, was Allen really hurt by his home parks being that he did much better at home, or were his home parks suppressing that .932 and it really would have been .950 if his parks weren't so tough....but if it were to be .950 in a neutral park, then why was it only .892 when he did hit in all the rest of the parks? A dilemma. Park factors do exist. Nailing them down to 100% accuracy is impossible. They are certainly pieces to the puzzle though. On the flip side, Larry Walker hit at home waaaay better than what the park adjustments show. He may have been helped MORE than the park factors are already 'deducting' when they take Coors into account. Same with Wade Boggs at Fenway. He was a completely different hitter outside of Fenway. Fenway factor deducts this a little, but it is possible it should deduct it even more for Boggs. |
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Not sure if anyone on this board knows the inner workings of OPS+, but I'd be interested to know how OPS+ accounts for batting right handed at Fenway vs. being a left-handed hitter. Either way, should Boggs be penalized because he was better at hitting doubles off of the Green Monster than his right handed contemporaries? |
I agree that Hornsby, Gibson, Aaron, and Mays are top. But I think more deserving than Pujols is a name I think nobody mentioned yet, Manny Ramirez.
He was a very good right handed batter. |
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Doing it this way, his "home parks" result in an OPS of .934 and his "road parks" result in an OPS of .887. Actually, not all that far off your numbers now that I look at it :) His numbers are significantly boosted by his Chicago numbers where Allen put up a 1.026 OPS during his career. So, was Allen hurt by playing in pitchers' parks? No. |
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Actually it does…. Being surrounded by elites raises ones game. If it doesn’t, you’re out. When a team gels they all become better. Saying Ted would have been amazing on the Yankees is overreaching. Ted on the Yankees is an unknown. |
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No Cobb, Williams, Mays, Aaron, Mathewson, Young, Koufax, Foxx, W Johnson, Clemente, Trout, Bench, Schmidt, Morgan, Seaver, Ryan, etc. Over half of the top 20 championship ring holders are not even in the HOF. Johnny Murphy who? Looks to me like you just had to be on the Yankees sometime from the 1930s to the 1950s and collect your rings. And as far as the OP's question, I'd list, in order: 1. Aaron 2. Mays 3. Foxx 4. Hornsby Since 'The Greatest' is not a counting stat, it depends on how you weigh certain things like average vs power, peak vs. longevity, runs produced vs on-base percentage, etc. With so many great players, there is no single right answer. |
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Yes, I'm making the case that championships aren't a good measure of a player's quality. Marty Castillo and Tom Brookens have more championships than Ernie Banks and Ted Williams. |
Rogers Hornsby.
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