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The thing is, your reply is the same as it has always been, that some make mistakes. I'm not trying to convert you to change your view but have you been following the Blow Out threads? In my opinion, it is practically conclusive now that something fishy/nefarious is going on with them based on what I have seen that gets passed and assigned a numerical grade. My opinion, like I stated earlier, was wishy washy once upon a time based on what you stated about them but with these recent PSA slabs that are being shown in just these past couple weeks alone, it is enough for me to cement my opinion. It is clear, to me at least, based on what I have seen that I can no longer accept that these cards were simple mistakes made by the graders. I could accept the odd one here or there but there are far way too many of them now to even consider that. |
I am still not convinced, Dale. In the context of how many cards they grade it's still a very low percentage of mistakes, and the BO guys have the benefit of before and after scans which makes it easy. These doctors, especially the one who can recreate factory edges, are really talented.
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Card from VT find back in 2014.....
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Here are some 1948 Bowmans that have NEVER been touched, bleached, trimmed or anything.......I'm not making an opinion on the Mikan, I just know where these 1948s came from so you can make your own comparisons.
They came from an original family's collection of 1948 low numbers. This is how real untouched 1948 Bowmans looks like. I still feel they are under graded but I'm biased as they are mine! :) You can also see how they almost fully fill the gaskets with barely no room to spare. Just for comparison only! Thanks! Mike Attachment 353782 Attachment 353783 Attachment 353784 |
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I just wonder what kind of kickbacks the graders are getting? A set price per card? A percentage of the profit? |
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Oh c'mon, David know better than any of us. He knows not a single card is ever rejected, and every grader is "shady". The doctors put a little smiley face on the package so the grader knows which box to grab from the thousands that come in every day. Then the grader lists them as commons so they dont trigger a higher service level and no other senior grader will look at them. |
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I just put a Ben Franklin in each Card Saver since they are all in on it.
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Paying double
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Then you are a sucker. I hear the going rate is only a Grant. |
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I frankly have no idea how many mistakes they make on high-grade cards, where accuracy would seem to be rather important given the prices they now command, but just the number shown so far is more than sufficient to cause me concern. As I have previously said, trust is what PSA purportedly sells. I no longer trust PSA to get it right. The claim that it might be a "low percentage" of cards (thus far) is rather less important to me than the fact that a large percentage of those shown thus far are selling for a lot of money. That's not good. |
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With this latest scandal and all that I have seen on BO concerning this, I can no longer say to myself, these are just mistakes and mistakes happen. I know people have a pile of money wrapped up in PSA graded cards so I understand those that don't want to accept something peculiar is going on with PSA but, imo, the evidence is glaring something is. |
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seems like hats made of tin foil would be big sellers on the BST.
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At PSA, wouldn't it raise a red flag by whoever is processsing an order if there was a 52 Mantle in the submission? Wouldn't someone say, "We better get one of our senior graders on this?" |
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Like his responses or not, at least Brent addresses the problems. |
Does anyone besides me think this would be a good time to go short on CLCT stock? :D
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Unless I am missing something, look at how this newly discovered Ted Williams card resides in its PSA case. (Pg53)
Is it too much to expect anyone at PSA "should" clearly see it is not as wide as it should be? :confused: Take a look at the "look and See" cards that were posted earlier in the thread below. There are many others going further back as well that makes me just shake my head in disbelief how these types of mistakes are allowed to continue. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...290614&page=53 |
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Just look at any other of the latest greatest scandals. When the guilty person(s) was completely silent the scandal went away very quickly. The Mastro fiasco is a perfect example of this. Quote:
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True, but PSA wasn't financially responsible for the slabs from Mexico, but they're on the hook big time for all these doctored cards.
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I will see if anyone's keeping a running tally of all the losses that PWCC and PSA are on the hook for.
In the video interview, Brent said that if PWCC submitted the cards, they will eat the loss, not pass it on to PSA. Noble stance. Let's see if he follows through on it. All I'm seeing so far is lip service. |
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This is going to be exhibit A in the Criminal complaint and search warrant. It's almost like he's trying to define away the term fraud.
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Talk is cheap. I simply don't trust the guy. |
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Not that long ago they called out some members over here for shill bidding, trimming cards, and a few other things. Hell that news didn't even get a single post over here. |
I think too much focus is being put on Brent/PWCC. As I mentioned before, the scam takes 3 parties - the doctor/submitter, PSA and then someone to sell them (whether knowingly or unknowingly). And whether complicit or incompetent, PSA is the key to making the scam work. You can take the best card doctor in the world, but if PSA is doing their job correctly and none of the doctored cards get past, then those cards really aren't worth anything (other than their raw ungraded value). So there would be no point in doctoring, the doctor finds some other way or hobby to scam. But if PSA continues the pass them, the doctor will still be in business. So let's say Brent/PWCC never takes in another doctored card on consignment ever again. The doctor doesn't need Brent/PWCC to make this work. He can use any other auction / consignment house and under many different names. Do you see how none of this is possible without PSA?
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A lot of what is posted over there is fact BUT a lot of it is conjecture too. With absolutely no accountability they can say anything at all, lies and falsehoods included, and not worry about any repercussions. Again, some of them do great stuff and are factual....and some of them are trolls and criminals just lying out of their pie holes. I think that is the reason some things don't get traction, because they are fallacies from anonymous idiots.
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I don't think PSA is doing their job correctly. And you are correct, that is the real problem. It wouldn't take catching every alteration, just nearly all of them. The entire business model of faster turn around times for more expensive stuff is flawed, and invites alterations. |
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I really hope the FBI is watching this, and is planning to come down on these people... The first week of August in Chicago might be a great time for it. Would love to see them do to PSA exactly what they did to Mastro/Legendary. |
Pwcc
This thread seems to be full of hearsay and innuendo. I was screwed royally before the advent of grading. Based on my 50 years in the hobby, I believe PWCC has been completely above board. I am a happy customer.
Look how much they've done for the industry through market research which landed them a huge story in The New York Times last year for heaven's sake. Who else in the industry can claim that? And yes OldJudge is absolutely correct. Brent deserves credit for elevating cards to the status of assets, continuing a trend begun by Jefferson Burdick. If anyone on this site is giving away their cards, please let me know. More power to Brent. |
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Convenience and safe target. PSA is a sacred cow and ubiquitously ingrained in many people's collections.
I've for many years assumed that many high grade cards in PSA holders have been "conserved." Even one major auction house president years back advertised that they could "prep" your cards for grading. Happily for me, owning '9s' and '10s' never interested me as a collector. Just my aesthetics/sentiments (and understanding that 'art is in the eye of the beholder'), but I never understood the need to own a Gem Mint copy of any particular card. |
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