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That's wonderful! Thanks for sharing. |
Thats a neat little letter. I love how he called $25 "steep". Minimum wage was $1.60 in 1973. Today, that's the equivalent of $10.50. $25 Back then (1973) would be comparable today to $164 (2022).
Thats so crazy. Goes to show that buying a 52 Mantle is always a good decision. Even with cards going down (but many still above from what they were just two years ago), the Mantle still continues to climb. Unfortunately, it's one of those cards that if you are saving up for, by the time most acquire the funds, the card rose in value again making it almost unattainable. |
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Thank you so much for this - but now you have me intrigued enough to ask - what is your favorite Mantle?[/QUOTE]
Howdy, Nate. I'm sorry to respond to you so late. My actual favorite Mickey Mantle card is a 1953 Stahl-Meyer Franks, graded PSA 9 MINT. My son and his wife are back at their home; otherwise, I'd have him load up a scan for you. There is a way to find the picture I staged of the card for my E-book on a CD, Never Cheaper By the Dozen, on-line, but that would take a while to describe, and I have to hurry, eat, and go to work. Nate, thanks for asking, buddy. I was thinking my tinzie reference flew over everyone's head. Have a great one. ---Brian Powell |
Before the pandemic, you could have purchased a PSA 1 example for around $10,000 USD and now it's worth around $40,000 USD, and that's around a 4x price increase in a short period of time. But a PSA 4 has only doubled in value. For example, if you had spent $30,000 USD on one before the pandemic, then today it's worth around $60,000 USD or so. If you had spent $100,000 USD on a PSA 6 before the pandemic, well now it's worth ... wait for it ... about the same price! :D Does that make any sense to you? You would think that if an ugly PSA 1 has gone up 4x, then a PSA 6 or a PSA 7 should be worth $400,000 - $600,000 USD, right? But nope, that's not how it works! The real winners here are those who kept their ugly ones, and of course, those who bought this card in PSA 8 (or higher) prior to the pandemic.
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As with other cards and other collectibles, certain things in their journeys happen to make them go from just being a card to being iconic. Sometimes those things aren't "fair" in terms of what does or does not happen to other cards, collectibles, or players. All I know is that by the time the hobby was full-blown retail with multiple shops in most towns (1985 and later for me) the '52 Topps Mantle had already achieved that status. Though it was pictured in many magazines and books about the hobby, I never saw one in the flesh until about 1990, I think - at a show in Charlotte, NC. It was an EX-ish card that the guy wanted 5 grand for. My Dad just laughed. Little did either of us know what a bargain that would have turned out to be...
I was born too late unfortunately to have any real shot at that card becoming a reality for me. My personal grail is the '56 Mantle - which I first saw in a Tide book with the Yankees team sets at some point in the late 1980's. I've owned one since I was about 13. |
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A PSA 2 just went for 81k in April at Huggins and Scott. And it was a decent, but not great example for the grade.
The numbers quoted above are way out of date. And there hasn't been a dead centered example sold with eye appeal that I've seen since that 3 Matt mentioned. The next one auctioned will shatter VCP records for the grade. 2x all time high or so (unless that grade happens to be a 3). |
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That was a nice 2.5, nicer than the 2 that went for 80k. Hard to explain the difference between the two, unless people just missed that ebay auction. But the centering was off and that isn't the type that would go for a huge premium for the grade.
The last 6 went for 150k 3 months ago, and centering was about as bad as it gets. If a nice, dead centered 6 came up today I would expect 300+. But those don't come around very often. |
https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515
Another recent sale - nice PSA 4 for $90,133 USD. Alright, a PSA 6 is probably more than $100,000 USD :D, but no way quarter of a mill or higher. We'll see what the next one brings in. The bottom line is that, instead of having spent $100,000 USD on a PSA 6 Mantle prior to the pandemic, imagine if you had invested that money into basketball or soccer or even Pokemon? :D You'd have a million today! Seriously, what's $50,000 or even $100,000 USD profit? It's peanuts!! Look what's going on with modern cards (which makes up like ninety-five percent of the hobby, by the way. :D) What is LeBron's Exquisite at now? A few mill? What will Steph Curry's National Treasures be worth if he wins another title? A mill? What about Doncic or even Charizard?:D |
A few more months of high as Hell prices for everything and gas as well, we'll see where things like baseball cards go. Those deep pockets might just dry up.
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Wrong idea in what way? Your last post showed a 4 for $90k. Clearly $100k for a 6 is a pipe dream. The card has exploded in value in all grades. Anything to the contrary is just wishful thinking.
Andrew |
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As per the data below, if a nice 5 was 156k and a stronger one— though clearly not top end or perfectly centered— was 180k, then a truly perfectly centered 6 will hammer around 250k or higher. We will only know when and if such a specimen hits the block. As I mentioned in a prior post, last year a PSA 3 with freakish A+ eye appeal went for $163,000. So it is paramount these days to examine the specific card in question. The old days of "all Grade X's costing Y" are over and gone. We can cherry pick a tilted, poorly centered, or poorly colored card and it may seem like prices are softening. We can cherry pick a gorgeous, lights-out centered card and yet that won't mean all cards in that grade are exploding. These days, it all comes down to the specific, individual card and its unique combination of technical grade and eye appeal/centering. And frankly this collector thinks that is how it should be. The technical grade is but one component and opinion, and does not necessarily speak to beauty. And a great many buyers out there will pay for beauty to their eye over the grade. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...bcb3930096.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b658dde4_z.jpg |
There is a huge difference between what an off centered card like that heritage psa 4 went for, and what a dead centered example would bring. If we're assuming that's the value, 90k for an off centered tilted 4, I'd put a dead centered between 175-200k.
When I say a 6 would bring 300k+ I dont mean just any 6. This would need basically 50/50 centering. There used to be a saying around here, not sure if it's still used much, but it was buy the card, not the holder. That is what people do with this particular card more so than most others. The grade still matters, but there would be a wide expected price range for each grade based on eye appeal and centering. A dead centered 4 would go for as much if not more than a very off center 6. Edit: I didn't see Matt's post when I wrote this one, but he did a much better job explaining the point I was trying to make. |
Here is my 52 Mantle that I rarely (if ever) have shown. I purchased at the 2019 National. I walked the whole floor and I only found one more PSA 6 at a table. Plenty of PSA 1 & 2. A few 3's but after that, it was slim pickings. The color was not a bright on the other PSA 6. It had softer corners than this one. They were asking 80K. I paid much more for this copy and I would prefer to keep that amount to myself (respectively). I will say that it was under 100K however. Since 2021, there hasn't been one that has sold for under 100K - regardless of how bad the color or centering is. Also, PSA 6's don't often show up for sale and the ones that do aren't attractive to the eye. Heritage recently sold a hideous PSA 5 for $105K. I personally would value this 6 between $170K-$200K.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7f9c03f935.jpg |
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Or are you one of the ones that thinks the only thing that matters is money? |
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I don't hate the card*, and wouldn't pass one up if the right opportunity came along.(and yes, all you elitist "money is everything" guys for me that would require a miracle) Is it a cool card that people have decided is THE card? Sure. I just look at it as a card that's readily available to anyone with enough money. Checkbook collecting doesn't excite me. What is more cool to me is having a collectible that is more special for reasons other than just being worth a bunch of money. Things that are often a bit obscure, usually too much for them to have a very high value. And my favorites are ones I found and saw what was special about it. *Seriously, how can you hate a card... I probably like all of them a bit more than I should. |
Matt said it perfectly: "What is key to hang a lantern on in this discussion is that in this day and age, we can no longer lump all cards in the same grade into the same price-zone. The premiums paid for eye appeal and centering— not just for this particular card but for many others in the hobby— make the prettiest examples totally unique animals with their own behavior when they hit the auction block." I will overpay for a low grade card that has the eye appeal of a card two levels better. Just for giggles, here is one of the best 'yeah but' graded cards i've ever seen:
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...pps%20Hull.jpg Small bit of back damage at the bottom. |
What MattyC has been driving home for many years is eye-appeal has a different sent of rules to follow. When I first got back into collecting MattyC was one of the posts I always enjoyed reading. I began to appreciate the card as more than just a grade.
One thing that rings true to this day is "buy what you like" (if you are not a flipper/investor) so no matter what the value ends up being you will still enjoy it. I have on several occasions set a new record price (at that time) for what I consider outstanding eye-appeal. Here are a couple of examples. I am pretty certain that if I put these two cards on the market today that they would sell well above the average current prices for the grade. https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...e-mays-psa-3.5https://www.collectorfocus.com/image...-aaron-psa-4.5 |
1952 TOPPS Mickey Mantle
1st.....as a dedicated "SET collector".....Yes, this card is '"OVER-PRICED" (and so are most other Star cards in this hobby, nowadays).
"OVER-HYPED"....as a long-time Yankees fan, who saw him play, 1951-1968, I do not think so. Mantle generated a special excitement very similar to Babe Ruth. 2nd.....I guess I'm one of the few guys on this forum who have experienced the thrill of pulling a Mantle card from a TOPPS wax-pack in the Fall of 1952. The two Mantle cards from my Master 1952 TOPPS set...... Type 1 .................................................. .............……............. Type 2 http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...mmantle52t.jpg . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...tleSGC40xx.jpg Here are the original 4 cards in my 5-cent pack with the above Mantle https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan...ermspenc_1.jpg 3rd.....A couple of you have alluded to the "$3000 sale of a Mantle in 1980. Actually, it was 3 - Mantle cards sold for $3000 each that year. Two young dealers, Bob and Rob, from the Philadelphia area who operated a monthly Auction in Warrington (PA) sold them. Prior to that sale, the 1952 TOPPS Mantle was selling for $500 (ExMt). TED Z T206 Reference . |
the 52 Mick was a white whale card of mine for a long time, never thought i ever own one.
Until 2012, i saved up enough and sold many cards to just have the opportunity to bid in a AH on a nice version. I waited for the best centered one and eye appeal- which i learned and read alot by watching MattyC. (thanks ) I could not sleep a wink, i got ready for work the next day and hit the laptop as soon as i could...and to find i WON!!! I was like holy shit!!! The thrill and excitment and when it finally came in the mail...i was like, its here in my hands and looks damn good!! So, for you folks, it was a ride back then. It has always been over hyped and over valued..so many people want THAT card!!. Side notes: I did not know the values were gonna jump like it has done. But thrilled i did not miss the boat on this card. I have many offers in the 40k+ range, just for mine. So i can see astonomical prices are great centered versions. But the ones i seen that are severely OC...not so great and at a higher grade too. Look at this new item on Ebay-- Nice centered PSA 1 by GMCcards (not mine) https://www.ebay.com/itm/32520579826...wAAOSwIKNicUQR https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SPwAA...QR/s-l1600.jpg What do you guys think it will hit? |
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oh btw the way...here is my own personal beauty.
(not for sale) |
Many thanks, Chris Millicon, for your personal story; l loved it.:D --- Brian Powell
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I frankly don't think this card was/is ever overhyped. Over priced, perhaps but there are people willing to pay the cost of literally the post WWII hobby Icon. If they're willing to pay five or six figures for it, then frankly it's not overpriced. It doesn't matter if Mantle is overrated or not, or at this point, if you were alive to see him play or as the years go on alive in his lifetime.
Full disclosure, Mantle is my main collecting draw. I never saw the man play in person, He died shortly after my first birthday. I heard stories about him, they sounded like fiction, from my Father and my Grandfather. It made me want his cards, when I started getting into the hobby. We can argue this until we're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is, the price on his 52 Topps Card has never regressed in value, and short of the descendants of Sy Berger discovering a secret cache of 100,000 52 Topps Mantles, I strongly doubt it ever will. If that's the card that keeps the hobby thriving, and keeps attracting newer generations of collectors, then it's a good thing in my book. |
Ted Z.----What a charming post, with all 5 of the cards you pulled from your nickel pack. That is SOMETHING! I well recall the "52 Topps Mantle I owned was the Type 1. I cherished the deeper, richer colors, chroma, or whatever it was. I even loved the background color better on the Type 1. My best to you, sir; thanks for posting your as always relevant contributions to Net54. -- Brian Powell
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Hey James, that post you made at 1:57 was very well expressed. Thanks, Seven! --- Brian Powell
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Sometimes I think it's hard to separate players from their cardboard, especially ones that are no longer with us. Cardboard is really how they live on, especially for some of the guys that played in the pre-war era. In some ways I'm glad for these debates and discussions. Shows how much passion and feelings we have about our wonderful hobby! |
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I really appreciate your very complimentary words. It is now 3 months shy of 70 years, since I carefully opened 5-cent wax-packs containing 1952 TOPPS Hi #s. Yet, I still remember that day as clearly as if it occurred yesterday. I gave the Candy store man a Quarter, he gave me 5 packs. Other than Gil McDougald, I don't recall the cards in the first 4 packs . It was the 5th pack that included the Mantle. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan7...wrapper100.jpg TED Z T206 Reference . |
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I've told the story here before of my grandmother finding two of my (born in 1943) father's old baseball cards many years ago. One was a '53 Topps Whitey Ford, and the other was a Mickey Mantle that we never saw, because she gave it to my cousin instead. Have always assumed (for many reasons) that the Mantle was very likely a '53 T as well, but you never know for sure. What do you think the chances would've been that a 9 year old living in the boondocks in southern WV would've had access to '52 T high number packs that fall? |
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An old friend of mine grew up in the Great Smoky Mountain region of North Carolina, and he collected 1952 and 1953 TOPPS cards when he was a youngster. Furthermore, he remembers opening up 1953 TOPPS wax-packs which also had 1952 TOPPS Hi #'s mixed in with 1953 TOPPS cards. Apparently, the TOPPS Co. had lots of left over 1952 Hi #'s which they stuffed into the 1953 wax-packs in the Spring of 1953. So, it is possible that the Mantle card you alluded to could have been a 1952 card. TED Z T206 Reference . |
Ted,
I always enjoy your wealth of knowledge and great stories. I think you need to write a book or do some kind of video documentary. Thanks for sharing! Such a cool story. Chad |
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Appreciate the input! |
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I had the privilege of seeing Mantle play at the old Yankee Stadium on several occasions. When he came to bat, there was an electricity in the crowd that was palpable. I recall one game when he hit HR's from each side of the plate and the Stadium erupted.
I have never owned a '52 Topps Mickey, and probably never will but, in my first year of collecting, I pulled his RC. Where I grew up in Schenectady, NY was fortunate enough to receive a bounty of the last series of the set. |
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I think this bodes well for my friend to find a nice six 52 Mantle at the National with his budget in cash.
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[QUOTE=tedzan;2231140]1st.....as a dedicated "SET collector".....Yes, this card is '"OVER-PRICED" (and so are most other Star cards in this hobby, nowadays).
"OVER-HYPED"....as a long-time Yankees fan, who saw him play, 1951-1968, I do not think so. Mantle generated a special excitement very similar to Babe Ruth. 2nd.....I guess I'm one of the few guys on this forum who have experienced the thrill of pulling a Mantle card from a TOPPS wax-pack in the Fall of 1952. The two Mantle cards from my Master 1952 TOPPS set...... Type 1 .................................................. .............……............. Type 2 Let's not forget Ted, Your type 2 Mantle was cracked out of the slab by some numbskull and put into a new SGC holder. And now resides in my collection:D Not centered, but I'm more than happy with it for what I paid for it. ;) |
I have been in the over-priced and over-hyped crowd since I got back into cards in the mid-80s. I figured as those of us who were able to watch him play die out, the demand would drop along with the price. I hadn't counted on it gaining the statue that it has. Nor did I count on the younger generation picking up his mantle, as it were. :) Also, after almost 45 years of thinking it is over-priced, I'm positive that as soon as I get it, if I do, the price will drop.
I have over almost 700 different Mantle items, with around 60 items on my want list. The '52 Topps tops the list. Unfortunately, I want both versions. Also unfortunately, there are other rarer cards that don't cost as much. I would therefore be more likely to get them as the chance arises. Lastly, I have tended to not pay as much attention to the auctions since there are so many. And I regret that now. If I had known about the SCP auction, I would have been in play for that Mantle. I may not have gotten it, but it definitely would have gone for more than it did. :mad: Congratulations to whoever got it! Also, as someone else said, the price is encouraging. Maybe I'll be able to get both versions in a 4 or 5. And more lastly, to all you youngsters, stop it!! Let us old-timers get the Mantles. And stay off my grass!!! :D |
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and like the Wagner...it has a Story (SP+ dump in wateR) |
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Fuddjcal.....Hey Chuck
I'm glad that my 2nd 1952 Mantle (Type 2) is in a Net54 member's collection. TED Z T206 Reference . |
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When you do, and a Mantle is in one, I hope it's in the middle of the stack in the pack....so it doesn't get an ugly gum stain :) TED Z T206 Reference . |
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