How about a guy who jumped UP a cliff. Puckett -- first two full seasons, 0 and 4 HR, third year, 31.
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Yoenis Céspedes.
In 2015, he basically singlehandedly got the Mets into the World Series, as his half a season with them was superhuman, but that cliff came quickly in Game 1 of The Series and he's been pulling a Thelma & Louise ever since. |
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1972- 5 HR 1973- 43 HR 1974- 15 HR |
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I think our newest member, Owner 3, might fall off of a cliff soon.
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edited to add, after phone tag with the member mentioned, we are all good for now. Please carry on.... |
Mark Davis went from Cy Young to sayonara.
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Eddie Gaedel. Luckily, it was a short drop, and he was fine.
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Please refer to the "Poll: is Mariano Rivera one of the top 10 pitchers of all time?" thread. |
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Steve Stone lost 7 games in each of 1980 and 1981. Only difference was, he won 25 one year and 4 the next. And after that, he literally was gone. A very good example of Cy Young to Sayonara.
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Maris didn't do much after 61.
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KC didn't pay $10m to a Cy Young Award-winning closer to bring him in as a long reliever and spot starter. |
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Physical and emotional toll of that season has to be taken into account too. Maris is only 30 years old here in 1965. He looks withered beyond his years to me:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/894/4...177e08158e.jpg |
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I know Maris fell apart quickly and his career numbers are short. But with 2 mvp and 3 ws and the 61 season I think he belongs in the HOF for the same reason Koufax is in. A short and powerful career.
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Joey has better numbers but Roger has 2 mvp, 3 ws and 61. Belle has none of those. Advantage: Roger.
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I'm sitting on a minor nest egg if Joey ever DOES get elected:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4712/...f8fa35f47a.jpg |
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I would not even think about considering Maris who at most had 4 top years, and really only 2. |
Anyone (other than Bonds) who the Giants have extended lately.
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For a player with a short career to go in the hall it has to be spectacular. Sandy has 3 cy and an mvp to go with 3 ws rings. Joey has no MVP awards. No World Series. He was caught using a corked bat. He was a huge slugger and had a very nice career. I would agree that he should be strongly considered for the HOF. But I think Maris, Mattingly and Murphy belong first. They were all the best players in baseball at one point in their careers. Belle was not.
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Plus Belle was "VERY DIFFICULT" to like! It's NOT supposed to matter, but...
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So you are talking about a guy who should have won at least 2 of the 3 MVP awards he nearly won and a guy who drove in 100 runs or more the last 9 years of his career. What exactly did Jim Rice do to end up in the HOF that Albert Belle didn't? |
1994. 36/101/.357/1.152 in just 106 games. I'd say that year he was the best player in baseball, and damn close to it quite a few other years, if this is somehow the test.
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Johan and Gooden have fair cases - edge to Johan. Oswalt has none. Oswalt has no CY. Gooden and Johan each have 1 20 win season. All HOVG.
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A name that should be mentioned is Bill James, the hurler for the 1914 World Series champion Boston Braves. He went 26-7 with them that great year. Bill also won 2 games in the Series, and must have been Manager Johnny Evers's ace, for they sweep the A's in what was their swan song season of that era.
Mr. James followed with 5-4, for what I am sure is a plausible reason, but sadly, a long fall from the cliff. Thereafter, no wins in MLB. Returning to Roger Maris, while he never returned to the season numbers and performance of 1960-61, a major cause was the near-constant emotional and mental abuse heaped upon the poor man from the kazillion Yankee fans who believed Roger did not deserve to be the single season home run king. In tandem were the writers, who almost to a man wrote him off as surly, grouchy, and ill-fit to carry the Babe's jockstrap. In his memoirs, Roger Maris wrote that the worst season he felt all this was not 1961, but 1962. Thereafter, I imagine the drive to hit homers the way Yankee management had traded for him to do so had left him entirely. His trade to the Cardinals was a win-win for the Cards and Roger. The Cardinals' management and moreover, all their loyal and non-front running fans took the beleaguered and tormented Roger into their huge hearts. The Rajah's regal World Series performance was a fitting climax to his first season in St. Loo, and no doubt Yank fans were gnashing their teeth about it, while bashing whoever they had turned upon once Mr. Maris left them.....Joe Pepitone perhaps? Anyway, it took Yank management a long time to realize what they had had in Roger Maris, and I salute George Steinbrenner for his tenacious efforts and humility to bring Roger back to the Stadium, and lavish long overdue praise, nice treatment, and build a monument for him in their exclusive little park for such better Bombers. In my mind, Roger Maris is still MLB's single season home run king. I'll leave it alone. ---Brian Powell |
Actually, the degree to which the hostile atmosphere of the New York press and public was responsible for Maris' decline has long been exaggerated. Yes, he was treated badly by the press, but that changed from abuse due to his not being Babe Ruth (totally unfair, of course), to abuse over the fact that his performance declined catastrophically (unfortunate, but entirely normal - it would have been amazing if he DIDN'T get some grief over that).
The REASON for the decline is rarely talked about, given that all people remember now is how mean the newspapers were. The real reason is that Maris broke his hand in 1963, and the crude x-ray technology of the time completely missed the hairline fracture. He wasn't properly diagnosed for several years, by which time he'd been playing with a broken/improperly healed hand for several years, which ultimately caused permanent damage. I'm at work so I don't have access to all the details, but that's the real cause of his decline - injury, not emotional abuse. It's not as interesting a story, which is why it's not remembered that way. |
The Boston press ravaged Ted Williams for most of his career. He hit .345. I don't think Maris' on field play was due to his treatment by the press.
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Brian:
I don't disagree with you regarding the case for Maris' enshrinement. He had several good years as an up-and-comer, two outstanding MVP seasons, and another (1962) that wasn't bad either. That's not enough. If he hadn't broken his hand, had played three or four more years, and had put in one or two more top quality seasons, would he be at least an arguable HOF candidate? Sure. But he didn't. It's fine to give someone the benefit of the doubt, but this is much too speculative. Maris' career reminds me in some ways of the late Al Rosen, who had a ten-year career with Cleveland, was a consistently very fine batter and third baseman, won an MVP and could have won another, and who was forced to retire very suddenly at 31 or 32 when he injured his hand quite badly, bad enough so that he felt there was no question that he couldn't play anymore. If he'd been able to play another four or five years, with only one or two more at the level he'd shown previously, he'd be a very strong candidate. But he didn't, and he's just short of inclining me to speculate. Rosen is my working example of a player who's just about as good a player that you can be without being a Hall of Famer. |
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I sure wish I knew how to spell blassfulmy, . |
It Is Hard To Follow....
.... the sad story of Roger Maris that aKlein and Brian shared. He was a great player and person in my opinion. But going back to the "Cliff" theme I would like to submit Bo Belinsky. It seems that the last image I have of him is sitting in his tomato red Cadillac with his arm around Mamie Van Doren after his no hitter. Then.......a career W & L of 28-51. He is sadly deceased.
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Tragic story anyhow. Read this. http://www.lamag.com/longform/fallen-angel-1/ |
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