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Nolan ryan
6 no hitters all time strikeouts leader...will Never have this record beat. To me that soldifies him on this list...too bad he played for generally bad teams |
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I was pretty happy with the 4 that were chosen - Stirred lots of memories for me all in the matter of just a few minutes.....Awesome
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Aaron---Mays---Koufax---Rose
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Joe T. |
I have primarily collected Nolan Ryan since 1988, when I was 13. However, I would not put him on the 'Four Greatest Living Players' list. His accomplishments will never be duplicated, BUT his ERA was higher (though many teams would love to have him today) and look at the number of walks he issued in his career!
Great guy, yes. Hall of Famer, yes. One of the top 50 greatest living players, yes. |
Aaron, Mays, Rose, Seaver.
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Just looking at the stats on the field I'd go with Bonds, Clemens, Mays, and Aaron.
But if you want to disqualify any or all of those four guys for PEDs, here are the next four: Seaver, A-Rod, Randy Johnson, Schmidt. |
3 of the 4 were spot on...but Bench? No way...he's not even the greatest living catcher. Yogi should have been there...that 4 I could have 100% agreed on!
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Not saying I don't get Koufax…I do, but another pitcher who played at the same time and hasn't gotten any love is Juan Marichal. ERA and srikeouts are comparable but she won 80+ more games and won 100 games more than he lost.
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Just to be different than others that were mentioned so much:
"The Big Hurt" Frank Thomas "The Big Unit" Randy Johnson "Pudge" Carlton Fisk Joe Torre |
Mays, Aaron, Rose, Bonds
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You say strike outs and era are comparable? Marichal's high for Ks was 248. Koufax had seasons of 382, 317, and 306. Ks/9 Koufax 9.3 Marichal 5.9. Marichal's best era was 2.13. Koufax's last 4 seasons were 1.88, 1.74, 2.04 and 1.73. How are those comparable? There is good reason why Koufax won 3 Cy Youngs, 1 MVP, 2 MVP runner-ups and 2 World Series MVPs during those years and Marichal didn't get a single Cy Young vote. |
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Did Juan go the same route that Bruce Jenner went ??? Is she know known as Juanita ? ;) |
Offensively, I would go with:
Aaron Mays F Robby Bonds Pitching-wise, I would say: Big Unit Seaver Maddux Pedro |
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There are only 3 pitchers in history to have won the Triple Crown three times:
Sandy Koufax Walter Johnson Grover Cleveland Alexander Those three names belong together. Juan Marichal does not. |
Cal, Brooks, Eddie and Palmer. What can I say? I'm a homer!
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I believe we already saw it at the turn of the century, with 2 different pitchers. |
top 5
Vintageclout remarks on the height of the pitching mound - and how it helped Koufax. I have even heard stories of the Dodgers fooling with the mound even more for additional help for Koufax (only rumor to my knowledge, but?) Ryan started to throw his insane stuff after mound was dropped. Can you imagine how many no-hitters he would have had if he played a decade earlier? Oh, My! Ryan is a very unique pitcher that you have to analyze "outside the box" for full appreciation - not so cut and dry by just looking at a few mathematical numbers. And the poor team he played for, come on, sure didn't help. I saw him live many times at Anaheim Stadium, The Big A. The crowd was on a special heightened awareness of anticipation each time he pitched. Many times (not always) pure awesomeness! Like M.C. Hammer said, "Can't touch this".
Back to 4, how about 5: Berra, Ryan, Mays, Aaron & Koufax. |
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You simply can't use JAWS for Koufax. First of all, bringing up his early years makes me question your knowledge of baseball history. In 1954, the Dodgers signed a player named Roberto Clemente as a bonus baby. Because they sent him to the minors, the Pirates were able to draft him that fall from the Dodgers. So, when the Dodgers signed Sandy Koufax in 1955, they weren't going to repeat that mistake. Koufax couldn't be sent to the minors. Unlike Tom Seaver, Randy Johnson, etc. , Koufax couldn't develop pitching against weak competition, he had to pitch against the best and his stats suffered. Second, we don't know what Koufax would have done after 1966. He didn't have access to the modern medicine of today and chose to retire in his prime. There is no doubt in my mind that if he had chosen career over long term health, he would have continued to be the best pitcher in baseball, winning Cy Youngs, MVPS and World Championships and this wouldn't even be a debate. |
I would go with
Nolan Ryan Hank Aaron Cal Ripken Willie Mays |
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My living four:
Sandy Koufax Hank Aaron Greg Maddux Rickey Henderson |
YOGI BERRA
WHITEY FORD SANDY KOUFAX WILLIE MAYS TED Z __________________________________________________ _____________________________________ Still searching for these 4 cards to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 subjects) CAMNITZ (hands over head)....DOYLE (portrait)....McGRAW (portrait-cap)....TINKER (bat off shoulder) . |
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Don't forget the dominance of Big Ed Walsh either. From 1908 to 1912 he won 127 games with a 1.71 ERA and gave up 400 less hits than innings pitched.
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Kind of a shame that none of the newer folks make a compelling enough case to be strongly considered for this list ... with the exception of Maddux or as a stretch Jeter IMO.
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Best 4
Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr. , Willie Mays, Hank Aaron
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Koufax's teams were more successful because Koufax was so great. Marichal had Mays, McCovey, Cepeda and Perry as teammates, but came up short vs. Koufax and Drysdale. They only overcame the Dodgers in 62 when Koufax injured his hand in July, missed 2 months and was ineffective pitching injured in September. |
Marichal's 63-66 is obviously a little short of Koufax's, but by surprisingly little if you look at up. He won 94 games in that stretch compared to 97 for Koufax, and his ERA and WAR while not as good are not that far short either.
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Peter I can never tell when you're serious, or just jiving ? Anyhow, Yogi is first in my book. Tell me....what other living BB player has contributed more to the success of his team than Yogi ? Yeh....go ahead and check-out the stats of other players currently living....then compare. I don't have to waste my time searching thru numbers....for I'm fortunate to be old enough to have seen Yogi play from 1947 to 1963. And, trust me I saw many, many Yankees games over those 17 years. Furthermore, I followed the Milwaukee Braves from 1954 thru 1964. They were my favorite NL team when I was young. From a young kid, I have always contended, that for the most part, the key to a Championship team is a "super-star" catcher. And, Yogi's all-around performance exemplifies this. TED Z . |
Only slightly off-topic:
Had sports talk radio on the other night, which I almost never listen to because, well, the callers are all idiots who clearly don't know as much as me! So they were choosing the Top 4 from each team's history. Finally, an interesting topic. The broadcaster throws out 8 names, you have to pick 4. When I turned it on someone was putting out a case for Jack Morris, which was fun. Then a caller wants to talk Twins/Senators: "Bert Blyleven." Announcer agrees. "Rod Carew" duh, check. "Harmon Killebrew." Check. Now, I'm not expecting this guy to know about Goose Goslin or Sam Rice, but he next says "Joe Mauer." The broadcaster says "Hold it right there, aren't you forgetting Walter Johnson?" "Yeah, I know about him, I just love Mauer." THIS IS WHEN I PUNCH MY DASHBOARD!!! Sorry, just had to share that. |
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