I said don't allow either. This board is for vintage baseball cards. If someone wants a religion or politics board they can find another one. That stuff always starts fights and hurtful words always get thrown around.

Well said, Fred.

I dont believe in a god (because Im scared of meeting heaven's residents).

But I think such a section could be entertaining!

Heck, I voted "dont care" to both and I will not participate if its installed (and shame on me if I allow myself to get sucked in), really Im now curious as all get-out on what Leon wants to post. I say if it gets shot down, we give Leon a moment of grace to post whatever he wants, one time, on his own board.

I hope Leon over rules the voting & says, as in the 1980's movie Risky Business, "Sometimes you gotta say ....."

http://forum.mydyingbride.org/images...s/beerchug.gif

No vote
 

I voted no as I look at this forum as an escape from that stuff. This can also be a very vocal group (that's a good thing) with strong opinions (also good) but it could undermine relationships otherwise based upon our mutual appreciation for the hobby. There are plenty of other places to hold those discussions anyway...

Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! Click on the icons below to visit the different areas. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com. Enjoy!

I vote NO
 

If no one liked Bruce's posts because they were quite a bit more than colorful, what the heck do you think a political/religious section will bring? Do we really want the threats and name calling to reach new highs, because it most certainly will. I would tread very carefully with that one!

Why do threats and name calling have to be a part of religious or political dialogue? Is the fine art of debate no longer taught in schools?

I voted no. And would vote again if I could.

Would someone go to a religious forum and start a vintage baseball card discussion? Someone try it and tell me how that goes over.

For the last 10 years I have worked for or with local governments in senior management positions. Never has politics been so bad.

On a daily basis I have people yell at me because there streets aren't plowed to the pavement because "I am not a member of XXXX party." Never before have I heard that. Never mind that here in NJ there is 1,345 feet of snow on the ground with no place to put it. It's because of the political party they belong to.

This is a vintage baseball forum. Shouldn't be anything else.

yes
 

I voted yes to both. I think people can disagree vehemently on things and still be on good terms. That is the art of Democracy. I got in a fistfight with a friend back in 2000 and we voted for the same candidate. We are still friends. My barber and I disagree on politics and we still get along. I do tend to agree with him more when he has sharp objects near my throat, however.

I voted yes.

You don't have to chime in or even view the thread if you do not wish.

.
 

Nobody said anything about a political/religious section. The idea was to allow these topics to be discussed if members wanted to.....not to start a new section all together specifically for this.

I voted for "neither"--I just don't see how it wouldn't end up spilling over to the other boards after a heated discussion. I just don't think it's a section that should be part of, or is needed, on this elite Net54 sports board.

couple points
 

Wow, you guys still have some great arguments for and against. Whomever said there would be a section for politics and religion didn't quite understand the section being debated. It will be open, not specific, and this debate concerns those 2 areas of discussion...not their own section.

Folks have said "do I really want that headache?" I guess I am jaded because I believe our membership can have discussions and debate without going at each other's throats every second. If it is a go I am still undecided on how much moderating would be done....chances are it would be less than the regular board but still looked at. Someone mentioned is membership or posts down? Quite the contrary. We had 65 new members join in November, 66 in Dec and so far in January we have had 40. We started with around 600 members after the first 3 months on the new board s/w (we couldn't count with the old board) and today we have approximately 2400 registered members. As for posts, I am not sure but I would guess they are up a little bit and the BST is up substantially. So, the board's health is fine. That is not the issue. As I said in my initial post I think it would be good for our members to be able to chat about ordinary stuff, since we are a family. And as I said, there are some times I would like to post about something that is way OT and I don't because I really shouldn't.

Whomever posted a bit of the rules earlier is correct in what our forum is about. However, I think it would be a better place with an area to chat with my friends if I want to, not pertaining to sports. The real debate is concerning politics, and to a lesser degree religion, as it probably won't be talked about much anyway. I mean really, who cares how others believe? That is their personal business and more power to everyone on that matter. I hope this gives a few more thoughts. I will say I am still almost 50/50 in my thinking of allowing the politics to be discussed. I thought it would be a bit more on the affirmative side but no, after reading everyone's thoughts, I am back to square one on the issue. Also, no, there is no burning desire to post some extraordinary circumstance. If there was I would just use my "freebie" pass for an OT and do it. This is more of a longer term solution to make the board better. That is all. Thanks to all who have voiced opinions so far. They are appreciated very much. regards

Water Coolers Suck! See, it's already getting nasty :)

Reading the responses from other board members, it seems that they are the kind of people that have a good grip on their self control, so I can't see them dragging down a friendly debate. Unless a no vote is their way of saying, "No, please don't tempt my inner a$$h@le"

I voted Don't Care. I won't get involved in a heated opinion debate anyway.

As a social experiment, if this section does exist for a period of time, we might find out that people of a particular party collect specific cards more than people of another party. That would be weird, wouldn't it? You might hear angry remarks like, "You left winged T206ers are all alike...." :D Or not ;)

The problem with society today is those damn Right Wing Old Judge Collectors...

Leon - I voted "yes" to both before reading all the posts, because I know that I can read your liberal Republican (do I sense an oxymoron here?) views without going ballistic on you, and I'm sure you can react likewise when you read my conservative Democrat views! :D

But, after reading all the posts, I now think it would be best not to allow either because these two subjects are too divisive - why risk ruining the good thing that you/we have going?!

Having said this, I suggest that if you do allow both, that you establish separate sections for each in addition to the water cooler section (in which neither politics nor religion would be permitted).
Val

r and p
 

as i said in my earlier post, i have been on this board for a number of years and am amazed and happy to see how much less the ad hominem has been in the last couple of years with the new forum.
the discussions and scholarship regarding the beautiful pieces of cardboard
have excelled in many ways, too, even though we have many who come on board as admitted newbies.
I like what we've become.
I remember full well over the years when discussions of religion and politics slipped in.
These tended to be the worst of times for our board with ad hominem at its height.
I say that we stay loyal to the cardboard.
And by doing so, I believe we will continue to stay loyal to each other as colleagues, friends, and family---the last word underscored ably by Leon---
without ad hominem.
My dear friend, Barry Sloate, i'm surprised that you indicate a 30 day trial, for
i've seen you deeply hurt at some comments in the area of religion over the years. I,too, was hurt by the comments. I don't want this to happen to you or anyone again.
I've said enough. I'll be on this board for ages---just like i've already been on it for ages---no matter what is decided. The one who mentioned Pandora's box earlier speaks to the heart of my own fear.
all the best,
barry

Posts 2, 4, 7, 11, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24, 26, 28, 29, 33, 34, 43, 44, 49, 51, 56, 57, 58, 60, 64, 69, and most especially 19 and 50, speak for us. An Anything-Goes (sub)forum will instantly invite politics and religion as the main topics there. Vehement animosity on a politics/religion forum is inevitable, and the ill feelings that will generate will inevitably and unstoppably spill over onto the main boards and the relationships between members. We know from experience. We run our own little podunk forums. So we vote no, just to encourage Leon not to entertain the idea any further. That said, we hate being told how to run our forums, and this forum is Leon's, so it's entirely his call. He can, and should, do as he likes and as he thinks best.

I voted "Yes" before I voted "No."

At Net54, I would keep the discussion to Ty Cobb vs. Honus Wagner rather than Creationism vs. Evolution.

I voted in the "I don't care,do what you want to:)" section, mostly because I can't make up my mind. I see both sides, the pros and cons. But I also agree that if you don't want to participate in it, just don't click on it ;).

I'm sure other topics would be going on in there, maybe other than religion and politics? I've often wondered how many board members are into the show on the History channel called "Ancient Aliens"........I love that show- to me, it is fascinating (just an example :D)

Sincerely, Clayton

Hi Barry- I was hurt over some comments about religion? You know, I don't remember. In fact, I can't even recall a discussion we've had on the board regarding it. Politics yes, but not religion. Is it just the old memory not working?:(

It doesn't matter whether or not Leon does decide to expand the board, because the fact is nobody has to even look at a new section if they so choose. I never look at the golf section, and if someone discovered the cure for cancer and posted it there I wouldn't even know about it.

You can either read and participate in a political debate; or just read and not participate; or not even open it at all. In that respect, there's no harm in Leon starting a new area of the board.

Barry, we know you haven't been watching the Golf section -- we've been killing you in there the past few months. Carry on.

I voted no religion and no politics. It brings on arguments and noone's mind is ever changed. I would participate in water cooler if it was about music or some other topic but when it gets into politics especially it can become nasty. I want all aspects on net 54 to be enjoyable and nin-stressful.

Jim

Jim! Welcome back.

Am I missing something here? I thought Baseball was a religion! :D

Now because of what Jeff said I felt obligated to check out the golf section...not a whole lot of activity over there.

A section on popular music, as Jim suggested, would be hugely popular. Of course it too has nothing to do with vintage baseball cards, but there probably wouldn't be too much arguing going on.

Not having read any of the posts on this thread, I voted against discussion of politics and religion. I feel very strongly about it. It only brings animosity and serves to divide the board. If people want to discuss that stuff off the board, go for it. I do every day. But I don't want that stuff souring a refuge from the storm
JimB

Religion
 

Hi I'd like to change my vote and be the first and only to vote for religion only but not politics. I can handle a food fight over Jesus but not so much politics :) On a serious note I think "media" should be one of the topics tossed in there with "religion" and "politics"

I don't have strong feelings about this but think that allowing controversial topics will likely impose additional responsibilities upon the moderators to try and ensure civility.

Mark

"Am I missing something here? I thought Baseball was a religion!"

Nice.

Wow!--What controversy! Responses coming in faster than you can read. You've stirred the pot, Leon; love it.

My initial reaction is, however, that you're asking for trouble.

Religion and politics can be very destructive issues, in many unforeseen ways.

I'm an advocate of free speech myself, and it seems it's already practiced here, within the limits of "collecting" [for want of a better generalization].

For myself, I do appreciate this forum as a tremendous resource of expertise and a friendly place for a baseball card collector.

Whatever, thanks and good luck.

Doug

New Section
 

Having seen the level of civility that has appeared on this board over the last few years when any serious (or not so serious) controversy has occurred, I think this new section is a Pandora's box, especially if the subjects of religion and politics are allowed. There are plenty of other public forums where people can rant and rave all they want on these topics. I like the board the way it is now and I would not like to be the moderator trying to keep a lid on potentially explosive rhetoric if this new section comes to pass.

John

Another, more concise thought...
 

If we all come here because of our joint love for pre-war cardboard, it is foolish to think that any other discussion will bring us closer together.

I don't think it's needed, and I'm real sure it will not enhance this forum in any way. Quite the opposite might happen, so I voted "please forget about it".

Why in the heck, would I ever feel the need to discuss whether it actually really really snows in Hawaii, with a bunch of baseball card aficionados. I can find a thousand people to discuss snow in Hawaii, but if I run into a prehistoric baseball card dude, I'm talking baseball cards. Simple as that!

Lovely Day...

There is no such thing as an adult conversation when it comes to these two topics. They may start out that way but seldom end in such an easy fashion. By the end of most of these conversations guys are screaming in their own homes and pulling out their hair, and I can't afford to pull any out. I voted no on both ends, but I know if they are on here I will have to visit. OH Lord. Frank

I went with "I don't care, do what you want to", but then again I'm not really religious, politically inclined or easily offended. :)

Here's something funny regarding the internet:

I just clicked on Google News and went to a story about Mayor Bloomberg and the snowstorm we just had. Some of you may know that he really screwed up the blizzard cleanup a few weeks ago so all eyes are on him today (we had about 8-10 inches last night). Would you believe at the end of the article people are commenting, and they're cursing and fighting with each other...over a snowfall! How can you get combative over such a benign topic? What is it about internet chat boards that often brings out the worst in people? Compared to some of these sites, Net54 is like the boy scouts. I think we are the best behaved internet group around!

Well said Doug !! :D

The members have spoken
 

Why do the poll if only to ingnore its clear and convincing result?

By better than 2-1 the answer is no.

If the Moderators are ready for more work I say why not????

It does indeed snow in Hawaii. Probably doing so right now on Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa on the Big Island as we are presently experiencing a very wet and unpleasant winter storm at lower elevations. That and anybody who doesn't agree with me sucks.

Jeff,

Thanks. I will save my political comments for your radio show. :)

Yes
 

I voted yes to both. It's not like anyone is holding you at gunpoint to read this section if you don't want to. I feel it will be worth it to watch Brucii make at least a few posts. If this section turns into an absolute nightmare, it can always be shut down. Arguments happen all the time, everywhere. I enjoy discussing politics & feel I can have an intelligent and constructive discussion here more than anywhere else.

I don't think Bruce will be doing any posting around here.

We're all adults until we strongly (vehemently) disagree with someone about politics or religion. Then the gloves come off and people lose all control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO_QntXc-c4

Ya know, when's the last time we saw a good train wreck of a thread?

Wow. I was looking forward to this. This is incredibly disappointing. Similar to when I found out Santa wasn't real.

solution
 

Easy solution. You don't have to look at it.... :)

As far as why vote if it won't be used......because it helps make a more informed decision. Does that answer that question? As of right now I have changed my mind and am leaning to not allowing politics or religion on that section.

I see no benefit in adding this section and many potential problems. Everything should be done to encourage more vinatage card talk, not to offer alternatives to it. Is the purpose of the board to maximize vintage card interest or to maximize eyeballs? If it is the latter the new area may make sense; I hope that is not the case.

Jay
 

Jay, as stated earlier, and evidenced by the 93.4% approval voting for this section, I feel this is a family. Family can talk about other things than baseball cards. You don't ever, ever have to look at that section. I find it hard to understand why people want to deny others from doing something they want to do that is harmless. It makes 0 sense to me. Please help me understand why you don't want me to chat with my friends when you neither have to look at that area or be involved in it? regards