BODA accuses "thousands" of modern cards being sold currently.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1336745

The link to the DC5 song was appropriate:).

That seems to be the mentality?

Still can't believe PSA hasn't recalled slabs owned by some of these high volume submitters... and continuing to let known scammers have grading privileges to continue scamming the collecting community.
Tone deaf. The potential refunds keep mounting.

And where are these cards selling through? More liability to the PWCC reimbursement guarantee, fencing cards for a known trimmer. Recall the hat in hand Brent post from 6 months ago:
No posts on Blowout since that post. Last login 3 months ago.

Gary is only one of many problems he has, IMO.

Not surprising in the least. Undoubtedly the card doctors have been forming a conga line with their dubious submissions lately. Why else would PSA be receiving a record number of submissions in this day and age when there is nothing in the open market of raw cards to indicate a major increase in the supply of collectible cards? Yet CU and their stockholders are just blissfully giddy at the revenue they've generated of late.

Some of the largest comc submitters were show to be trimming everything. From a 2 dollar base card up. And why not? PSA can’t detect and for 10 seconds work you can turn a 5 dollar bill into a 20 or 50 dollar bill. Some will get rejected or damaged in the process but it is an incredibly easy way to make money.

Limitless greed and the almighty dollar.

Yet still the threads continue about sending in massive submissions and giving consignments to these crooks. :mad:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1336944

From BODA:
ALERT: Heritage Selling Trimmed PSA 8 1916 Sporting News Jim Thorpe- ENDS TONIGHT

That statement begs the question, If you are not a crook but support crooks does that make you a crook by association?:D;)

At this point is there anybody who does not believe PSA* and Beckett* are 100% in on it? At this point with the small % of the bad cards in SGC holders I will pull a PSA supporter and say it could be human error. Admittingly they do seem to be going down hill fast.

*at minimum they have employees in on it

Ironic typo in the Heritage description of the Thorpe card...

“Jim Thorpe is regraded as one of the top athletes of the 20th Century.”

Good eye.

Trimmed or not how is this a 10?
Top bottom centering? Back centering?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=197

is it time to just start viewing everything as trimmed? or, just buy items in an "A" slab, and take the eye sweet at a massive value?

right now, my perception is that a PSA 10 and a PSA "A" are at this point, the same thing, so just pay less and buy the trimmed card that is admittedly trimmed, over the fraudulent 10 at a massive premium, that's likely also trimmed.

Just on aesthetics alone, I like the 8 better than the 10. The trapezoid cut (or trim job) is more pronounced on the 10. Sadly someone paid a lot of money for a number rather on the overall merits of the card on it's own.

Looking through the entire thread, there's a lot of 8's and 8.5's getting either 9's and 10's on some 50 to 70 year old cards which should be a red flag in itself. Again, why are all these seemingly pristine cards suddenly surfacing in droves? The old adage "If it's too good to be true..." seems to apply quite nicely in this case.

It's not what you know.... It's who you know. :cool:

[QUOTE=phikappapsi;1936527]is it time to just start viewing everything as trimmed? or, just buy items in an "A" slab, and take the eye sweet at a massive value?

right now, my perception is that a PSA 10 and a PSA "A" are at this point, the same thing, so just pay less and buy the trimmed card that is admittedly trimmed, over the fraudulent 10 at a massive premium, that's likely also trimmed.[/QUOTE

You're right. All PSA is now is an envapsulator in my mind. They simply slab cards.

[QUOTE=iwantitiwinit;1936717]

We all probably should have been doing this all along. Doing one's own homework on a card regardless if it is slabbed or raw is probably the best course of action and make a purchasing decision based on this information.

It ain't me, Babe.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...68&postcount=1

They say you’re a 4 but we don't know
A chemical bath and watch that number grow
Well I don't know if all that's true
'A rebuilt corner, and baby I got you
A bump Babe
I got you a bump babe
I got you a bump babe

Thanks for Chering.

This post was not pro Bono.

Correct, sonny.

Green Cobb "vaults" ahead with a wrinkle removal.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...9&postcount=28

And a reglued Red. My.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...6&postcount=32

Wow this one is really bad changing or adding lettering ? What’s next front of card

Red Cobb, SGC 5.5, formerly PSA altered, in PWCC.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1337657

Altered Cards
 

Serious question here -

Does anyone know what these " card doctors" charge to do their " magic" ?

Ive seen loads of cards that get worked on, then get a huge bump in price, but what about the cards that end up getting " just : a $500-$1000 increase...,is a profit made on those ?

Does the " doctor " have a price list - cleaning - 350, trimming 650, recoloring.etc...

Always wondered about that ??

haha - this is intriguing. like the college admissions scandal! Pretty sure these guys are doing it for themselves in a closed loop, and it's not a 'random stranger bring me your vintage raws, and for 10% I'll turn them into gold' thing.

Dick Towle offers his services to customers. His work and people's views of it have been discussed at length.

fair enough - i meant the people doing it in secret. like moser (not a well kept secret, but he's attempting (successfully) to defraud. at least these guys are telling the world they're doing it - on the front end at least. wish their work came with a watermark.

My belief is that the card doctors work alone or sometimes partner with a money guy. For example, my belief is that Johnny Adams, Jr. was not himself working cards.

After a lot of soul searching I think we should NOT avoid PWCC. Everyone should bid high, early, and often. Seriously we need to keep the values up so it doesn't affect they honest collectors and dealers. After all the majority of participants in this hobby are good honest people. If people boycott sellers it will drive prices down, how is that fair.

Then we have to consider there are really only a couple of bad people with a few altered cards. Hell there might not even be any altered cards. Plus this is all new so how could anybody have known. It could also be the people on BO are pulling a hoax and photoshopping some cards to prank us.

On a real serious note if I ever post about this again please call me a moronic idiot for even caring. Hell the moronic idiots who actually collect this stuff don't.

I'm not even putting any of his auctions on my watch list.

Red Cobb 17K, sure hope it was not in fact altered as PSA graded it.

There's a small spot upper left ish in the background that might be recolored. I just can't tell from the scan, even that really nice scan.

The surface was peeled, and it looks like they glued it back in place.
Oddly, they missed the "E" from series, which was floating loose near the lower border of the upper area.

outed cards
 

Obviously, these guys are making money with the trimming and modifying .

I wonder if it was a deal of - " lets see what some suckers pays..then we split the difference ? "

:D

Big gainer for Jake.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=431

Statute Law ??
 

..after almost three years , and assuming the buyer of the ''9'' sees this post , is there any recourse to a refund ? From whom , ? The auction house or PSA ? I'm in awe of both those selling prices....
..

4K plus gain
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=435

PSA

If the sale was real

Hatchet job on a 52T Rosen.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=438

And a 4K corner job on another 52T.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=444

52s
 

So disgusting. How are those 8s? This certainly doesn't help some of the "on the fence if there is an insider at PSA grading these cards crowd)...which I am.

NO normal person submitting those cards would ever receive an "8".

I would be thrilled if it came back with a 6 in that condition, and would fully expect a 5 (or an "A", to be more specific). WTH is going on in Newport Beach? :confused:

They Are printing money

Bingo. And won't stop unless they are directed by a higher power.

Some submitters are more equal than others.

Yes... and if there's a totem pole of hierarchy, I am touching the ground!

Meanwhile, even without doctoring, people are making fortunes on bumps.

A slice out of the Big Dog.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2160

It amounts to that, doesn't it? It would be fascinating to see how much of these whopping profits actually gets reported to the IRS and then we'll find out if there is honor among thieves?

Hmmm ...
 

There are many different outlets for these doctored cards. Based on everything I have been reading so far, it looks like PWCC is the preferred choice for the majority of these card doctors. However, the earlier posts reveal that Will Jaimet was selling his cards through Memory Lane. What percentage of these doctored cards go through PWCC in comparison to the others? For example, would you say that at least fifty percent of them go through PWCC? Eighty percent? Thirty percent? What about Memory Lane, Heritage, REA, COMC? How would we divide the remaining percentage up among them?

My purpose of asking this question is to see which of the above companies have been hit the hardest, and most importantly, why they were selected in the first place. What made them so attractive to these card doctors? And as for the companies that have sold the fewest of these tainted cards, why is that? Do they have people running them who could spot some of these alterations even though they were encapsulated?

Latest uncovered is three known trimmers all in the same PSA sub. All cards were sold by PWCC, with PWCC as possibly the submitter.

What a great system. Sell cards that have restoration potential to a group of large dealers. Bring these cards back in house post restoration. Sub them on favourable terms. Get favourable results. Slap a HE sticker on them. Allow same dealers to shill the cards up.

Pretty incredible really, what a racket.

It's obvious, though not sure it is provable in court. I'll defer to counsel.

Many examples show:
High end consigned examples were shilled up to a point were either a doctor would buy and restore it, amd relist, or someone would be left holding the bag.

So who is the in-house person at PSA who is approving and bumping all of these cards for this high-profile account? Who is the PSA representative in charge of PWCC and their band of trimmers? They're getting authorizations and multi-grade bumps at an astronomical rate, as compared to the "normal" submitter.

The latest evidence in this thread is very damning for both PWCC and PSA...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...333320&page=14

I doubt we will never find out. If there is someone caught via evidence that can be proven, to include emails, phone call, ect at psa doing the alleged above it would destroy PSA.They will stop at all means to not have exposed. It will be all handled via Money, Buying Back to avoid charges and exposure.. I expect PSA walks away squeaky Clean not exposed and or implicated. After all PSA IS TEFLON

outed
 

Yes, Id love for that info to be uncovered.....but what would happen in the end ?..somebody gets their " pound of flesh"...they things continue along as they were

Does anyone have a recommended process for investigating one’s own cards for possible alterations? For example, if I bought a Psa 6 graded card in 2014 are there certain internet references that people can recommend I go to look for that same card in a possibly lower grade and/or raw prior to my purchase? I have access to Worthpoint and VCP but if anyone has any other sites I would appreciate your input. Thanks.

Not that anyone should follow my example but I posted my process in this thread within the past few weeks.

OK... Now they've crossed the line. You do not mess with one Tony Perez!

This warrants jail time :mad:

Thanks Peter, found it

Brief jump over to modern for one of the worst I've seen.

Wow. Just wow.

Why trim if you can get a 10 on a card like that?

PSA pretty much has to be selling grades.

FOR 15 YEARS PLUS. Think about it...

And today, just another 4 K between friends...for a Sid Gordon and Alvin Chipmunk...LOL

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=354

ya know, this scandal pisses me off as it does everyone - but - if you're spending the same amount on a 1954 Sid Gordon; as you could spend on some very attractive playing day Babe Ruth's - then you almost deserve this nonsense. I understand the appeal of graded cards. I even understand the appeal of going after specific items in a particular grade which I've done. But if you're spending thousands of dollars on a common card, that nobody would EVER forge/reprint; that's readily available for $3-$5; then you're a fool.

+1

The best reveal from those blowout threads is PSA has a program where favoured dealers could sit with a grader in person and that grader would pick through the dealers cards and pull cards that would 10. Cost is 10 pee card, minimum 600 cards, and you only get slabbed 10s back.

Amazing how much of an idiot Orlando is to let these shenanigans go. What a small game they are playing, a 500mm company giving breaks to their hobby buddies. With that level of access - one on one’s with graders- pretty easy to see corruptible the process is. Imagine the influence a dealer like PWCC had been on their own grades. Or 4 sharp corners. The game is clearly rigged.

Blame the victim?

one could see it that way. or...

caveat emptor

or

a fool and his money...

You can hate the massive fraud, and still believe some of those whom the fraud is perpetrated against are idiots. They aren't mutually exclusive in my mind.

Hear! Hear!

Brent to Johnny (to doctor to Johnny?) to Brent to PSA to Brent to victim.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=362

Does anyone know if the individuals who discover these frauds or anyone else for that matter lets the owner ie set registry owner know they purchased altered cards? I would think that short of legal action the only way PSA will step up their game is if people start demanding refunds for monies spent on these cards.

I think they attempt to make contact. Or they were trying at one point.

Been saying this for months on this thread! It’s a shame most people don’t care or know. This Should he disclosed to the collecting public.... these private Invitational Meetings with graders ....WTH

Perhaps Joe correctly saw this as a way to lock up PSA's market domination.