You got a good deal on that, but I don't think you have it yet. I also bid on it for resale. Be careful for unscrupulous gawkers or it may not make it.

Beautiful Cubbies pennant.

Mike

Agree.... that's a keeper!

Congrats, Mike :D

Thanks everyone! I now have 5 Cub 1945 pennants.

Beautiful Cubs pennants! Wow... How do you follow up after a post like that?

Hmmm...

Hey! I just got this...My second cereal box shipped pennant this year. Funny thing is this morning at the grocery store as we prepped for Hurricane Harvey to arrive, I mentioned I was in the mood for Lucky Charms. Then later this afternoon, I find this sitting on my doorstep.

https://i.imgbox.com/IBJjT1Jn.jpg
https://i.imgbox.com/lH4fNgh9.jpg

Good story Rob.... But what was inside the cereal box? Did it manage to survive OK?

We want to see the "sweet surprises" :rolleyes:

Also.... please disclose that seller so we know who to avoid, moving forward. :eek:

Mike...

Great stuff! That pennant in the upper-left is a real toughie.

Very cool displayed together like that :cool:

Thanks Mark. That World Champions was a bit premature. But it finally came true!

Cereal boxes....soooooo sturdy! :rolleyes:

How did you get that framed so quick? I was afraid you claimed it too quick and now you show it framed. Nice grouping.

Did it myself. I'm fast!

Nothing worth posting a picture of...Just a fairly common 60's Redskins pennant with a big indian head on it that I didn't already have but felt I should. It was fine...loosely rolled and wrapped in plastic. Seller isn't a pennant seller normally so I don't think anyone has to worry about running into him. I was amused more than annoyed. I know to lower expectations when I get "free" shipping.

But these also arrived yesterday...

https://i.imgbox.com/shUdagvP.jpg

https://i.imgbox.com/kPZswa0a.jpg

https://i.imgbox.com/cLafigtg.jpg

Beautiful pennants Rob. Even that Dolphins one :P

Mike

Thanks Mike...That Dolphins one is my favorite of the lot. Haven't seen that one before.

Someone got a nice deal on this pennant...Anyone from this forum? It still appeared in the search results as active but when I clicked the buy it now option, it was already sold. Must've just missed it...hate when that happens. ;)

http://r.ebay.com/rAzKC7

That is a good deal. I would have bought it for resale.

Not super thrilling, but 33 years after the event, this is the first of this variation I've seen. I find it kind of odd that they did (at least) six different versions for a one day event.

I am on the fence about bleaching it...:eek:

Those are some sweet pennants Rob. Now I want to see how many variations I can find for the 2 All Star Games held at Yankee Stadium in '77 & '08. The new Yankee Stadium has not hosted one just yet.

Mike

1984 All Star Game
 

Rob- I thought about bidding on that pennant. I went to several games in 1984, including old timers day (have the pennant listing SF Giant All Starts somewhere back at my parents house in CA).

Condition
 

I know we've talked about this previously but I'm too lazy to hunt through 100+pages to find the discussion. Apologies to anyone who doesn't feel like rehashing an old topic...

I was looking at the results from Hunt's Duke Hott collection/Super Bowl auction a couple years ago and I was surprised at the strong sale price of some of the pennants despite what I'd consider to be lower grade condition. It got me to wondering, is condition that important? Is there that much of a premium put on a pennant in NM condition, compared to one say in average condition? Or does rarity trump everything?

I'm also wondering what your condition down grader/disqualifiers are.

For me, above all else...a torn or missing tip really bothers me. A very slight bluntness I can live with as long as the tip still appears to come to somewhat of a point. But a tear near the tip or missing tip really turns me off to that pennant. Interestingly, a tear elsewhere on the pennant doesn't bother me as much. I can live with stains, fading, cracked paint, missing tassels and/or a moth eaten spine. I actually like my old pennants to look old.

What about you? What is the most egregious defect to you? Curious to hear everyone's thoughts....again. :)

You're going to get all kinds of answers. I know for many, a non full tip is a killer. Also, tears or significant fading also kills it. For me personally, it's about display. If it displays well, I am fine with it if it is very difficult or rare.

Unfortunately, most of what I buy is for resale and I don't buy anything that is not in ExMt or better. If the tip is blunt from the original cut, I'm fine with that for resale. If it's altered in any way I completely pass for the most part.

Condition is a topic that's very near and dear to my heart. I've learned that it differs for many collectors, and that I'm pickier than most. But here is how I see it...

Acceptable/Expected:
* Pin or small nail holes (but not right up against a border)
* Puckering and/or slight cracking to the painted graphics
* Very minor surface soiling or fading
* One tassel (but not both) missing from either the top or bottom
* Loose stitching to spine, at very top or bottom
* Blunt (but not torn) Tip... many were simply made that way

Not Acceptable:
* Rips or Tears anywhere on the pennant (especially those that emanate from any border).
* Holes 1/4" diameter or larger
* Any holes close enough to a border that they're in danger of tearing through to the edge
* Ink writing anywhere on front of pennant (reverse side is ok, as long as it doesn't show through)
* Any alteration... especially when someone tried to re-create a pointed tip.
* Significant surface soiling/toning/fading
* Both tassels missing from either the top or the bottom


I can make exceptions for exceedingly rare pennants or oversized pennants from the teens. But otherwise, those are my guidelines. Eager to hear from others!

And then this leads to "What constitutes restoration" and what does not...

My view is as follows...

Not Acceptable Restoration:
* Cutting or trimming anywhere on the pennant
* Coloring in missing portions of painted graphics
* Filling in holes with felt from another "donor" pennant
* Replacing, re-stitching or re-gluing the pennant's spine.
* And yes, I'd say that bleaching is alteration as well... albeit a slightly "lesser evil", perhaps.

Acceptable:
* Dabbing or cleaning of excess dust, dirt, grime, etc. with a cloth or towel
* Removal of Pet Hair or Dust with tape or a lint roller
* Ironing out excess wrinkles/creases (done from reverse side)

If any of the above practices deemed "Not Acceptable" are done, I feel it is incumbent upon the Seller to disclose them.
Just my opinions.... others will vary ;)

For me, since I am a beginner at collecting pennants, I will pretty much add any pennants to my collection unless its really dirty, bent badly, torn or the pin holes are noticeable. I can always upgrade when funds are available.

Mike

I agree for the most part. Tassels to me, however, are no big deal. If I see I pennant I want, I can't remember ever thinking "if only it had tassels". :) It just doesn't bother me...in fact, I've removed the tassels from pennants that had some missing or had badly mangled ones.

Writing or the recreation of a pointy tip are deal breakers. I bought a rare early 70's Giants (football) pennant a couple months back that looked fine in the pictures. But when I held it in my hand, it was obvious the tip was shave into a false point. I got it for a great price and now I knew why. I guess the seller thought the price told the story, so he didn't have to. There was no mention of it in the listing.

I've noticed puckering on a few of my pennants (typically 1960's pennants) and wondered what caused that. It's usually near the spine, so thought maybe a production error? Or maybe the pennant was washed in someway and shrunk? What's the explanation on that?

I agree...It's all in how it displays. A little patina works for me. Missing tip to me kills the display.

Where do you sell?

If I have a chance to get an SF Giants pennant I "need" or have never seen before, I am going for it, regardless of condition. If I can upgrade at a later date, all the better. That said, condition WILL influence the price I'm willing to pay.

Speaking of "needs," here they are. I'd take an example of any of these in almost any shape. I have seen these offered once, maybe twice or never (only pictures).

I think I have the black one with Batter and Candlestick Park.

I'll pm you Rob, if I'm able to find it. It will be a bit of a challenge, and will take some time. I've never seen another, but need to be sure mine is that exact variation.

Please stay tuned!

Looking forward to that! It is definitely a variation and a melding of a couple of different styles. I own many that look close but not quite the same.

Edit: I just looked and I do have that exact pennant except on mine the grass has no color. It's possible the grass was hand colored in the pennant I posted (or not, as I have seen pennants that didn't "get" all of their intended colors).

In regards to restorations and alterations I agree with everything Mark said. I think for the most part, most would agree with these. I would highly caution those that are somewhat newer to pennant collecting to be very careful buying on eBay as there are many many people altering pennants for resale.

With that being said, I buy quite a bit on there myself for resale so it is o w of the best places to go. Just saying, there's a lot of garbage on there too. Be careful.

Mike,
What about the 1960 game?

Those are gorgeous Jason.

Mike

Would you pay more for an all original 68 Camaro that looks terrible, doesn't run and sits like a paperweight in your driveway or one that's fully restored? :)

This is an interesting topic to me as well as I've often wondered about making repairs, outside of just cleaning/bleaching. Do you think a rare pennant with a rip in it, is more valuable or desirable with the rip left as is, or if it was stitched shut?

As far as unacceptable restoration for me...Mark's first 3 bullets definitely hit the mark (no pun intended). Those are all deal breakers for me. Bullets 4 and 5 however, wouldn't turn me off. It would be virtually impossible to tell if a spine has been restitched anyway...unless it was done very amateurishly. Bleaching doesn't really bother me either. Would you lose interest in the 68 Camaro because the seller didn't leave on 50 years of dirt?

Has anyone cleaned a flocked pennant?
 

Hey I am deciding on whether or not I want to clean a pennant I just purchased and remember seeing somewhere on here a conversation about cleaning pennants.

My pennant is a flocked pennant with airbrushed paint on the graphics. As far as I know, when the paint gets wet, it puts watermarks on it and ruins it. I am not as concerned with this portion, and would rather focus just on the white parts of the pennant.

Any suggestions?

Can you post a picture of the pennant? I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "flocked" and "airbrushed."

So the pennant is actually not in terrible shape, but it just seems a little dirtier than my others. The white border and red background are just felt (the 70/30 wool/rayon type) and then the "STANFORD" and all the indians are flocked onto the pennant. I think maybe you are familiar with "raised felt". The issue is that they are all flocked in white and then gone over with paint afterwords. That paint gets water damage (as seen on the Indian's right shoulder sitting atop of the "F")

I may not even worry about it, but if there is a safe way, I might go that route as well.


Thanks!

That's beautiful. I wouldn't touch it. The patina does not detract from it's appeal at all in my opinion. Wouldn't risk it.

How old is that? Have any others?

It's from Chicago Pennant Co and judging by the tags I think its 50's-60's. I have seen others that are easier to date (use the word "university" instead of "college" with the same tag) and those are generally in the late 50's or 60's. I think I am going to leave this one alone.

I do have some others. I am very interested in these types of pennants. I created pinterest page that I continue to update. It has most of the one's I have seen. Some are hard to get good pictures of so they havent made it. Check it out:

https://www.pinterest.com/cmonkeydew...llege-banners/

Those are just fantastic. Especially love West Virginia, Texas, Miami and Va. Tech.

All of them are great, though... And I would not touch that Stanford Banner either!

Rob and Mark are big time "pennant guys," as am I. That said, I would not be above a little light cleaning on your fantastic Stanford pennant. If it were mine, I would use a mild dish or laundry soap and a soft bristle toothbrush on the white border.

But that's just me. :p

Thanks for the advice guys!

Beautiful pennant!

Mike

Hey guys, I know it's Canadian, but I'm curious if anyone is familiar with this particular pennant. I'm wondering if it's a CFL Eskimos pennant (the modern club has existed since 1949), or possible an earlier example, as Wiki states that two early football clubs in the city used the "Eskimos" moniker, one from 1895-1923, the other from 1929-39. The use of the term "Eskimo" instead of "Eskimos" along with the leather-style looking helmet and somewhat melon shaped ball makes me think it could be from the second club to use the name...
Or is it just a 1950s CFL example?

What do you think?

.... Sorry the image turned out so poor..

I hope this is better...

This appears to be a mini pennant, not that it matters but you sometime see some different colors and styles on minis. I would say due to color and font on pennant this is a classic 50's maybe up to early 60's.

Thanks Jason! I appreciate the information.

Brent,
Just so you know, I have little knowledge on Canadian football league other than running across some of the Grey Cup pennants over the years. You may want to do more research to see if you can link it to the late part of the 30's team. I just think it is more likely 50's. Good luck.

Seals pennant thoughts
 

So, I bought this Seals pennant on ebay suspecting that it was probably some kind of modern reproduction. The seller had it listed about a month ago, pulled it, but then listed it again. I thought it was intriguing enough to buy, given the price. I paid about what I would expect for a repro and was the only bidder. But, I can't find any other examples of it. If it was a repo (e.g., sold at SF Giants games or something like that) it should be more common. I'm no PCL expert, but do keep an semi-regular eye on Seals items.

I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this pennant, has a thought about it, or has seen it before. It is soft felt, with no tags. The Seals graphic is raised a bit above the felt and "soft" to the touch.

Definite Reproduction... albeit a nice looking one.

Great contemporary display piece!

seals
 

Yeah... repo was my thought as well. I wonder where it came from? Seems like there would be more floating around.

I've attached a photo of a similar one that is posted online. I wonder if that one is real or a repro as well.

This all made me realize that I don't really know much about new pennants, as I haven't purchased one (other than maybe this one) in years.

The distance between the two sets of tassels and the raised velvet graphics are the two biggest tipoffs that it's a Mitchell and Ness. The graphics should be painted/screened on, and not soft to the touch. The paint should show some evidence of cracking, rippling, puckering or other general effects of age.

Other factors become more apparent when you touch it / have it in your hands... the style of stitching (where the spine is applied) the limp composition of the felt, and the design itself, among other things.

When you've seen enough of these M&N Pennants, you know immediately. Still, some inevitably make it into Catalog Auctions, like any other decent reproduction (Ad Signs, Lemon Peel Balls, Autographs, Reprint Cards, etc.)

I suppose it's cool that people can own a Seals Pennant for a fraction of the "vintage cost"... But I still wish they'd stop making these near-exact copies of the originals. Or they could simply print their company logo on the reverse side.

The way they are currently sold is with a paper hang-tag that ebay sellers "conveniently" like to tear off... leaving no evidence that these are repros. Here is the way that Seals Pennant was originally packaged...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yankees-CLAS...cAAOSwfpVZInYz

And here's one that actually snuck into the last Huggins & Scott (before they removed it...)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MITCHELL-NES...8AAOSwqJRZpCg0

I'm with you Mark. It's really annoying. Mitchell & Ness put their label on their jerseys, why not their pennants? I'll never buy anything of theirs for this reason and always include '-Ness" in my eBay searches.

Just checked out their website and they currently don't offer any pennants. When did they produce these? Did they only do baseball?

Mark,
That White Sox one is one of about 3 that I see regularly trying to be passed off for original. That one seems to be the lest obvious or so people think. I'm sure you see the same as me.

Raised felt
 

Thanks, Mark. Based on those other two, it looks like Mitchell and Ness for sure. That was what I was looking for.

I have seen "raised felt" (or something like it) on vintage college pennants (see the Alabama and Santa Clara pennants), but never on a baseball pennant. Although, again, I am no true expert. Does anyone have a real vintage baseball pennant with raised felt?

The Seals pennant cost me all of $15 and I suspected that it was repro all along. I think I'll add it to my son's room (see below), which I've somehow managed to fill with pennants....

I like those posters! ^^^^

Board member andypcl shared a picture of his real Seals pennant with me...

I love this thread. I have learned more about pennants from you guys then I ever knew.

Mike

Good buy on the Seals... sure it's a repro, but a very good one for $15.

As for the others with raised velvet.... also often called crushed velvet or "flocking" by some... Yes, it was a common practice for college pennants, especially during the 1940s-50s. Some beautiful examples have been posted in this thread (many by Matt Z.). Same process as for the rectangular College Banners posted above. But I am not aware of any Baseball examples, outside of the 4 great 3D pennants (Brooklyn, Giants, Yankees, Red Sox) which appear earlier in this thread.

I'm away from the computer, but perhaps someone can throw up a photo or two of those 3-D beauties. Other than those four, I believe ALL Baseball Pennants had painted/screened-on graphics.

Mark, yes, the 3-D pennants have print with a felt-like texture to it, but it does crack. I have 1960s picture pennants (Orioles and Phillies) with the same type print, and also this otherwise common 60s Phillies pennant. All have felt graphics. The 3-D pennants were Collegiate and these other ones are, to the best of my knowledge, Trench.

(I have pics to send, including Yankees and Giants 3-D, but for some reason this isn't allowing me to attach them, something about a missing security token.)

That's right... thanks Greg!

I have seen (and completely forgot about) those picture pennants.

Not sure I've ever seen the Phillies version, though. Would love to see a pic, if you can access it without too much trouble. Thanks!

Mitchell and Ness actually started my pennant addiction. Around 1996 or so the company used to run a 50% off sale in their old Philly on Super Bowl weekend. They did it for a few years. Anyway that's where and when I bought about a dozen of their early repros. I thought they looked cool and I still had my "original" ones from going to Phillies games in the 70s and 80s as a kid. At the store they had some vintage pennants displayed on the walls, including a Phillies "Blue Jay" pennant, and I thought they looked better. Eventually, I came to want only the real ones, and then I discovered eBay.

Mark, I think I have your email, will try that, and if you wish to repost (and can have better luck then me) feel free to do so!

Picked this up this morning. Not the prettiest Tiger pennant, and I think it's faded a bit, but I haven't seen it before.

Attachment 287326

Here's a few for you...
 

Attachment 287343

Attachment 287344

One more...
 

That Mays is nice. Tough pennant.

Nice! Where did you find it at?

Brian -
Very nice Mays Pennant.
I have placed a Willie Mays Pennant that you may be interested in.
It will be in the upcoming Goldin October Legends Auction.
Jerry sage

I might be interested too!....if I hit the lottery between now and the auction. :rolleyes:

Tremendous stuff as always Jerry. For those interested, Jerry's stuff is in great condition and this pennant too is extremely rare in any condition. Good luck in the auction.

Some real nice NY Giants/Willie Mays pennants!

Mike

New to the boards...was wondering if anyone could help me identify the year and authenticity of a few pennant pick ups I've recently made. I've checked around for sites and was told this is the place to go to get answers. Please PM me if you're able to help. Thanks in advance!

If you are able to post pics (it's easy on this site), you will have no shortage of informed opinions.

Welcome!

Don't you hate it when you've been watching an auction for a few days, hoping to get an item for a good price...then suddenly it disappears from your watch list because the auction was ended early and you discover somebody contacted the seller with an offer less than you were willing to pay...and the seller accepted!

Hate when that happens...and yes I may have even been guilty of it once (or thrice). So you win some and you lose some I guess...

Anyway...Anyone here want to declare victory on this?

http://r.ebay.com/neDuXq

That's the worst :mad: . It wasn't me....what would I want with a Lions football pennant?

Not even the most die hard baseball collector can resist the pull of an extremely rare Detroit Lions pennant!!!

Or is it just me? ;)

Rob

My stance on this is if you really want a pennant or any item that's listed, just message the seller and make an offer. I can't tell you how many times I've done this and it's worked with the seller ending it early. Sometimes it doesn't, but it's worth a try. Anytime I see a rare item I want, I ALWAYS message the seller to try and end it early.

The all blue on white came today. I already had the red and blue on white. 1962.

gorgeous piece Rob!

Mike

Here are the photos. (Please excuse the ugly yellow walls lol) Again, any help you can give me would be extremely helpful.

I am skeptical in regards to how authentic this Rangers pennant is as it is in pretty amazing condition and I've yet to see it printed on red felt.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4398/...be83128ab4.jpgIMG_0950

I just received this in the mail today. Couldn't believe how great the condition was and spent enough on it. I love it, which is why I took a chance on it, I'm just hoping it's not a repo. I'm really wondering the year on it...1960s/70s I'm assuming.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4364/...8046031871.jpgIMG_0952

And finally, my pride and joy. I absolutely love the aging of this pennant (I know, I know). I saw a similar one before this one and missed out on it so I had to have it once it surfaced. The seller said he believed it was 1930s/40s.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4398/...dfd0366950.jpgIMG_0951

I'm new to the pennant game and I actually have enjoyed snagging some vintage of my favorite teams. I am preparing to get the framed for the man cave one day, until then they will hang in my infant son's room lol.