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Browns after photos
Sprayed bleach and let sit for 90 seconds, then rinsed thoroughly with water using another spray bottle. Pretty easy and pleased with results. Now just need a nice orange spine.
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Round 2
Didn't get quite as lucky with this one. It was way more soiled and I left the bleach on too long trying to remove the more stubborn stains. The red started to run. Even so, anything would be better than it's previous state.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psvtvrlh8v.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psww3hypqx.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...pskd8mo8pw.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psdmnerrzk.jpg |
Going to try to work on that black spot a little more, without touching the lettering if possible. Maybe try to bleach out the red that ran in that area. Then a spine transplant and call it a day.
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Told you so! You gotta hang it vertically, point down and tape off the spine. Looks like you may have gotten some bleach on the Giants spine :confused:
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Yeah the spine was loose and pretty beat already and missing the tassels (the tassels that appeared in the before photos were actually from the Browns pennant laying underneath.)
I did hang vertically but what started to happen was the red paint began to run down the length of the pennant. It actually looked much worse while it was in process than it does now. I laid it flat to minimize the running which worked. I was able to dab up most of it. But I think the laying down allowed the bleach to seep under the tape. It was a lesser of two evils decision. I can replace the spine. I should've paid more attention to the graphics on the Giants pennant as they are painted on. I know from my old travel pennant experimentation that the painted on graphics run like hell when soaked. The Browns is silk screened and suffered no adverse effect at all. Live and learn. |
Interesting. Silk screening uses paint, too. :confused: I have never had any problems with graphics but the oldest pennant I've bleached is a 1962 NL Champs. Now, you've scared off the other guys. :p
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Yeah it's weird...The Browns pennant which I'd say is mid-60s held up like a champ and came out great. It was my first attempt so I thought this was going to be easy.
The Giants pennant was beat to begin with so almost anything would've been an improvement. The weird thing about that one...which is suspect is a few years older than the Browns...is the red paint ran like crazy, but the blue didn't at all. So tonight I did a soiled white 1970's era Redskins two bar helmet pennant. It's drying now but the early results appear to be an epic failure. Not only did the red in the helmet run all over the place...but the white background didn't seem to get whiter at all. The black NFL logo on this one appeared to run as well. The results are getting worse with each attempt. You didn't experience any running paint with yours? I'm thinking maybe a more gentle bleaching agent...Oxi makes a whitening spray that is supposedly better than bleach and not as harsh. I'm not giving up yet. |
This is scaring me from trying this with my 1976 Yankees World Series pennant. I do think paint was used on the pennant. I will have to look when I get home.
Mike |
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As I said, you've probably scared off anyone else who was thinking of trying it. As I also said, I've had 100% success. Here's another I did. The previous owner underlined "National League Champions 1962" with magic marker and that did not come out but the rest of the pennant cleaned up nicely. |
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The Redskins was a total loss. Fading and running everywhere and no improvement to the white background at all. I'll give it another go tonight...I've got a couple more hopeless pennants to risk. |
The next victim...
Trying to stay in Rob's sweet spot...circa 1962...give or take.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psyhpdis9m.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ps9tidkkbp.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psvx6ggbxk.jpg |
Still wet but early returns are promising...
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Awesome pennant, and great improvement. That one was the perfect candidate!
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Thanks Mark...I'm feeling cocky again. I've got some 1960's AFL pennants begging for a try. :)
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So, I've got a couple 70s MLB pennants I'd like to try it on. Dare I? Is the consensus that it needs to be 60s?
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Rob might have to answer that one...
Seems like the best results are coming from those softer/more supple cloth type. Once you get into the '70s, the stiffer "felt" (or whatever it is) is a whole different animal. Not sure how that material would react to the bleach. :confused: I have passed on bidding/purchasing dozens of white pennants over the years, because of ugly staining. So am hoping to see some more good results! |
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I originally thought the Giants pennant I cleaned was older because the graphics appeared painted on. They were more raised than those on the Browns and Bears....and they ran significantly...but it depicts Y.A. Tittle who was a Giant from 61 to 64. So this one is probably very close in age to the other two. Maybe they're just a couple years apart and the technology shift occurred shortly after this pennant was made. I'll post the before and afters of my 70's Redskins pennant. You might want to shield your eyes. ;) |
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70's Redskins Before
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70's Redskins After
One note...It did appear to get somewhat whiter over time...ie days. Where as the ones I had great success with turned white before my eyes.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...pswrjtflii.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psq4jxrryw.jpg |
Wow... that one sure bombed. In retrospect, the "before" version wasn't all that bad. :o
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Here's my Jets pennant. I bought this off eBay a couple years back for next to nothing. I see this pennant goes for more now. I assume I got it cheap because of the bend near the tip. Is there anyway to fix that?
I bought this because it had Shea Stadium on the pennant. I don't see many Jets items with Shea mentioned. Because of the NFL Logo, I assune this is a 70s piece. Not sure of the year. Any ideas? I also wonder if its missing any pieces. Mikehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e9267557df.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...040a5768b8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f95a03e877.jpg Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk |
Looks like it never had tassels. Condition looks great... and the bend is not a big deal, but it can easily be ironed out if it bothers you.
Very easy process... just iron with some mild steam from the reverse side. DO NOT iron the front side. Use a medium heat setting and keep the iron moving. Do not leave the iron in one spot for more than a couple of seconds. This crease should come out with very little effort. Again... Do NOT iron the front side Do NOT use high heat DO keep the iron moving Best of luck.... this one is easy in the scheme of things :) |
J-e-t-s jets jets jets
The next test...1960's AFL New York Jets. Look away Mike. ;)
Any predictions? http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ps6ibvfcw1.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...pst20ppket.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psblzwtogy.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psmsqb0upi.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psbwrw2nyb.jpg |
I'll throw a prediction out there...
I am guessing this one turns our GREAT! (How's that for applying some pressure?) |
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One thing I noticed is that the pennants get whiter over time. I see an immediate change as soon as I spray the bleach on, which I'm pleased with. But then I let the pennants air dry for a couple days and they continue to get whiter. The pictures of the Jets pennant were taken about an hour after I rinsed it. I suspect that it will look even better in a couple days.
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Toying with bleaching the spine on the Namath Jets pennant...or maybe just replacing with a nice white one. Not sure.
The Rams is older and paint feels raised. Might be a mistake but I bought it for the sole purpose of trying. New Jersey Giants...Would love to clean up. But it's 70's era which I bombed with last time. Broncos...I feel good about my chances. Dolphins...Not too worried. Tittle Giants...Cautious but bought it to try. I suspect similar results to the other Tittle I have. Allie's Dream...Has a lot to gain by cleaning...But I'm unsure of how it will hold up. Different material than others from the 1960's, which I'm assuming this is from as he coached there from 61 to 68. Just noticed...the misspelling of "Alie" on the pennant. I'm sure that makes it even more rare and valuable. ;) |
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psxjku2yiv.jpg
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Running
This area ran quite a bit. Again, only the red paint, not the blue. Red doesn't seem to hold up as well...at least Giant's red. I've gotten pretty good at combating the problem by laying the pennant flat, spraying water directly at the white sections that have had red bleed onto them...dabbing immediately with paper towel (or Q tip for more precise areas), then blowing onto the area to arrest any further bleeding. The running paint does come right off if you treat it quickly. I haven't perfected it yet...but the results look better in the end than you'd expect when in process. And the end product looks much better than what I started with.
The black that appears around the knees of player #77 is just shadows. The pennant came out very white with no residual staining at all. Overall, happy with this one. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...pshryhgrim.jpg |
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Report Card: Browns
Done about a half dozen of these now. Let's see what we've learned...
Pennant: Cleveland Browns Era: Mid 60's Issue: Rust like and unknown liquid stains Material: Soft felt Result: Stains gone. Pennant very white. No change to material or silk screening. Grade: A |
Report Card: Bears
Pennant: Chicago Bears
Era: Mid 60's Issue: Substantial staining and discoloration throughout Material: Soft felt Result: Cleaned up perfectly. All discoloration gone. Very white. No change to material or silk screening. Grade: A |
Report Card: Giants
Pennant: Tittle Giants #1
Era: Early 60's Issue: Significant staining and discoloration throughout. Material: Wool material similar but different than first two pennants. Result: Significant improvement but a couple stains remained. Red paint ran considerably but was manageable. Slight fading to red lettering. A few random loose threads emerged along the edges which I snipped with no lasting damage. Grade: B+ |
Report Card: Redskins
Pennant: Washington Redskins
Era: 1970's Issue: discoloration from age Material: Stiff felt Result: massive color running. Damage to material. Modest whitening which improved slightly over days. Pennant trashed. Grade: F |
Report Card: Jets
Pennant: AFL Jets
Era: Mid 60's Issue: Significant discoloration from age. A couple small stains. Material: Soft felt Result: Very white. Stains gone. No change to silk screening. Material feels slightly different. Maybe thinner. Grade: B |
Report Card: Giants #2
Pennant: Tittle Giants #2
Era: Early 60's Issue: Significant discoloration Material: Same as first Giants pennant Result: Same as first Giants pennant. Much whiter with a few loose threads and red paint bleeding. Grade: B+ |
Some very nice results on those last ones. Funny how the red paint reacts differently from the blue. Who'd have guessed?
Regarding that Jets/Namath pennant... one of my very favorites from that era. Hopefully the spine cleans up well, as it's otherwise in great shape. I would definitely try that one next, and only attempt the "spine transplant" if it bombs. Fingers crossed for you... please be sure to keep posting your results! |
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Double Sided Ali vs Foreman/ Aaron 714 pennant
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Hello,
Im a vintage baseball glove collector who resides in the far south Chicago suburbs. I usually head to at least one flea market a weekend, sometimes 3 or 4. I've posted a few times trying to sell stuff, but I'm a lurker. I like to follow the posts and learn, but have little to add. My username is the same on Brett's vintage baseball glove forum, I've had some cool glove finds the last couple years. Check them out. Anyway, heres my addition to the thread. It's a double sided pennant featuring Muhammad Ali/Cassius Clay vs. George Foreman on one side and Hank Aaron chasing down Ruth's HR record on the other. I contacted a fellow member and he said that pennants would be recycled if unsold, and that he'd never seen one like it. That initially made me think the Ali side had been reused to make the Aaron side due to the red strip of felt. A little research later i found the date of the Aaron side was before the October Rumble in the Jungle. It then dawned on me that if they were recycling pennants they certainly wouldn't remove the red felt strip and resew it on the new side. Let me know what you think, stepped out of my comfort zone on this one. I usually turn these finds into baseball gloves, still have a sweet uniform in the B/S/T section. Richie |
Fantastic pennant, Richie! I've never seen either side, which is somewhat surprising since you might think I would have seen the Aaron in my baseball searches or the Ali in one of the many auction catalogs I've received over the years. I assume the empty square on the Aaron was for a photo.
Didn't Ali fight Foreman more than once? If so, your pennant isn't necessarily Rumble in the Jungle. I love how they decided to do Ali's new name in a middle eastern looking font. :p I don't have an idea on value but I would think both Ali and Aaron are highly collected. |
I've seen both... The Aaron side is the original one. When it went unsold, they simply re-used the pennant for Ali/Foreman. Apparently the makers didn't feel that fans/collectors would care much about the felt strip being on the incorrect side. I've seen the same phenomenon with Colt .45/Astros and Boston/Milwaukee Braves 2-sided pennants. The felt strip is seemingly always on the original side.
The blank square was indeed for a photo insert of Aaron. So either it was removed, or more likely, never even applied. Appears there is no adhesive or residue to indicate a photo ever having been applied. So this was likely just left-over stock, used by the vendor to save money. It's a unique piece, and probably desirable to the right buyer. Probably won't get you a crescent pad, or even a Lutzke in return... but perhaps a nice Decker Patent (to put the value in "glove terms"). Still, great stuff! |
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Here's an interesting addition to the story. The pennant pictured below shows the Hank Aaron pennant with a photo. I'm sure this photo is not original to the piece. So I'm betting that a few (or perhaps many) of these pennants never had any photo attached. The photo would have been centered within the painted square.
The example pictured below was likely a home-made job, done to make it more saleable and attractive. |
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No problem!
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As for the Namath...I'm not sure if I should remove the spine and bleach it separately, or leave it on and try to block with painters tape. That would be less hassle, but way more risk. |
Regarding the Namath, there is definite risk both ways. Removing the spine is pretty drastic, given it will likely have two sets of stitching holes/rows, when completed. And how can you be sure that replicating the original sewing style is even possible? To me, that's a more severe alteration than just a cleaning.
It seems safer to thoroughly tape off the body of the pennant, and then do the bleaching with pennant hanging vertically.... but with the pointed side UP (so any excess bleach would drip/bleed off the spine and away from the pennant). In case it drips, you can place a bucket or newspapers below... or do it over a bath tub or sink. Just my 2 cents... GOOD LUCK, if you attempt it. |
Thanks for the compliments.
Mark, I found the same pics when i was originally was researching the pennant. The fact that no residual glue/paper is in the box should of been another clue that the Aaron side was recycled. Really was hoping for at least a Lutzke LOL. Fun way to value something!:) Any of you pennant guys have some early endorsed horsehide for trade? |
I've got a Mizuno I bought at K Mart about 20 years ago. :D
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It cracks me up that Mark, who is apprehensive to experiment on his own pennants, is right there with advice! :p I will say, for the era Mark collects, I doubt he has many white pennants.
Rob - I am thrilled that you have jumped in with both feet. Sorry about the failures but I think the successes far outweigh them. Here's what you might use on the Namath pennant. The bleach is more of a gel. |
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Aside from the Redskins pennant...which I have multiple of...just picked up another as part of a lot as a matter of fact...and which was pretty beat already...I consider them all to be success stories, compared to where they were in the "before" photos. I experimented on a cheap 70's Yankees pennant last night. It had a lot of red graphics and lettering and true to form, ran like crazy. But I discovered the right course of action is to apply more water, not less. I just kept spraying until the water ran clear. The running paint just flows away and doesn't stain the pennant. It seems the red paint degrades over time, more so than other colors and you need to wash away that dead layer until it stops bleeding. To soon to say it's a perfect solution but it worked on this one. |
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Thanks, Mike |
[QUOTE=ooo-ribay;1670522]It cracks me up that Mark, who is apprehensive to experiment on his own pennants, is right there with advice! :p I will say, for the era Mark collects, I doubt he has many white pennants.
Touche, Rob... The few white ones I do have were all purchased in very clean condition. So I suppose I usually pay too much. But if I win a cool one that closes on ebay today, I will jump into this endeavor with both feet. It is/was white, it is soiled, and it has all-red graphics (yikes). So it will be an interesting test, if I can just win it. If not for this thread (and both Robs' advice), I would've just watched it without bidding. It's a rare variation for a sixties pennant... really hoping the compromised condition keeps the price down! |
Yankees Pennant
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Here are after pics...Diluted mixture to 60% bleach and 40% water. Quite a bit of running red but it all washed away.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psetbhmqxy.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psilh3uovj.jpg http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psplamumav.jpg |
That is a gorgous pennant
Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk |
I wish your before and afters were on the same page. Is the red any less bright after you lose some of it? I can't really tell. Red is a color you rarely find on Giants pennants.
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Yeah Rob...I was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, it pushed over to the next page.
It's funny with this one. The red ran like crazy but was no worse for the wear. Doesn't look faded at all. The red of my Giants pennants did look slightly lighter. Not enough that you'd notice unless you had before and after pics but I could tell. This one the red looks just as dark. However...the blue does look slightly lighter. Which is weird, because the blue didn't run at all. The bleach must've just lightened it some. Not too noticeable and again the after product looks much better than the before...even more so than is evident in the pics. |
I can see the slightly lighter blue graphics. Did you dilute the bleach a bit this time, or did you stay with 100% bleach?
This one definitely went from a "trader" to a "keeper". Looks so much better.... great job! |
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There was a point in the process, when the red was running everywhere that I thought screw it. Lost cause. Then I noticed the running red started to run off completely with each successive spray. If I was in love with the pennant I probably would've stopped sooner. But because I was willing to risk it all, I got better results. |
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Happy George Burns Day.
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Namath Pennant
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Decided to go with a spine transplant on this one. Didn't want to risk bleach on the green and I had an era appropriate white spine in my closet.
I did a little internet research on local tailors and seamstresses...read reviews, etc. Decided to try one that's right down the road from my house. When I called to explain what I'd be bringing in, I was little nervous to hear an Asian woman on the line. Wasn't sure she would grasp what I was going for...wasn't sure how vintage sports pennant would translate...but she said sure bring it in. When I got there I explained what I wanted. I didn't want it to look new. I didn't want it to look like a repair. I brought in a nice example for her to compare. Then I left. For the next 48 hours I had visions of everything that could go wrong. But to my surprise, she got it completely. When I saw it, I was very happy. Then she pointed out that she purposely sewed the spine on a little crooked, as the original spine had been....so a second set of holes wouldn't be visible. She totally got it and nailed. I told her she'd be seeing more "flags" (as she called it" in the coming weeks. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...ps21hcc3uo.jpg |
I love it! I'm sure some may not like our penchant for "improvements," but I have always been one to try and clean things up.
Mark - did you get the soiled pennant you were after? |
And now for something completely different...
On a bit of a cold streak with sellers on eBay lately. One problem after another...This was two different sellers but both happened to arrive on the same day. Yes...There are pennants inside.
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This one wasn't quite as bad...but not the way I'd do it...or want it.
This is actually the second Saran Wrap roll up I've gotten in the past few months...Interesting technique. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...psogyisdpd.jpg |
Haha, Rob.... I've gotten the dreaded "Saran Wrap Roll" a few times myself.
Interesting technique, and like you say... not the preferred method. But it definitely beats that horrific Redskins fold-over job. I'd return that one just on principle alone.... even if it does iron out. :rolleyes: Excellent work by your seamstress... that's about the best result you could've hoped for on the Jets. Looks great! So did she do both the removal of the old spine and the addition of the new? Beautiful work and great pennant! |
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But it might have still been a great candidate for bleach. I liked it because that particular Running Cardinal Mascot is always associated with Football (never Baseball). A rare one, and a Championship Season... pictured below. |
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Yes...She handled the removal too. And saved the original spine for me so I can give it a bleach job and hopefully reuse it. Can't wait to bring my Giants pennants over to her. The rolled up lot of pennants I just rec'd I actually purchased for their spines...Lots of orange and red ones which I need. But now that I've flattened them out...They're kind of growing on me. Just a bunch of 1969-70's era baseball. Might keep a couple of the nicer ones...Unfortunately, the nicer ones also have the nicest spines. Notice my Redskins replacement pennant...that was the look I was going for. But, missed it by that much. ;) http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b5...pshlvy0dtf.jpg |
That was a cool one Mark. Too bad it got away.
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Wow Rob, I am blown away by how cool that Namath Jets pennant came out. Kudos to the seamstress for a wonderful job.
I was never really much of a pennant collector. Then I started reading this thread from the beginning and seeing how cool the vintage pennants look and dragged out a couple of the ones I owned. Now I have the fever and placed a few bids on some 70's Yankees, Jets, Knicks & Islanders pennants. Hope I win at least one to jump start the collection. There is one pennant in particular I am looking for. It was given out by the Yankees back in 1982. It features the 1981 AL Championship team. I want it because it was from one of the first games (second one, actually) I went to and it's one of the happiest memories I have with my grand mom who is now passed on. I actually still have it, but its all dark with age and grime. I don't think its a candidate for the bleach treatment as it's a darker pennant and has a team photo on it. I just want a cleaner one so I can display it. Mike |
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