There are not. At least that I’ve seen in almost 40 years. My guess would be 1950 or 51 following his MVP season. I’m glad to see there is another one out there. I thought it might have been a one off or few but fed as discussed. It appears to match the Harry Stevens style of many Yankees pennants from that era so maybe a few were made for a banquet or something. Either way, great pick up.

That was my thinking as well. I wondered if it was from an event like a banquet. I'd not seen another and when it came up for auction I remembered American Pickers...."the time to buy it is when you see it." :-)

Any ideas about which company produced it?

Personally I think it’s NY area mystery company. Here are two that I believe are from the same company, note the same gold streamer-like design on the ‘55 pennant. One theory is Trench - I think Domer might lean that way? - but the construction seems very different to me than known Trenches of the period. The graphics and artwork is also a vastly different style.

[QUOTE=Hankphenom;2264794]This pennant was originally sold by someone who had a similar fugazi Dallas Texans pennant, which I bought and returned. Same quality fake. The letters and graphic were cut out and glued - poorly - not even to the edges so you can see underneath. There is absolutely, positively no way that even a non-collector could hold this and conclude that it is anything but a homemade job.

[QUOTE=thetahat;2264843] Good to hear, as the picture made it look good. All the more reason Jonsstats has no business acting as if it might be real.

No doubt the Rizzuto is the same maker as the '55 World Series Pennant. I have seen the more common "Yankees" (not Rizzuto) version sporting the same exact fringe instead of tassels. I used to have one but stupidly let it go.

Yup, my opinion: the Rizzuto and the '55 WS pennant are by the same maker; and, I'm confident that maker is Trench :)

Mystery maker wasn't known for using tassels. Nor were they known for multi-colored graphics ... or team-specific artwork.

I was able to trade the first one for the one with the "waterfall" coming out of RF. Both are very rare. Thanks, bocca!

Marc also sold me this one at a good price. I have the same pennant but with no added color to the white graphics.

I’m seeing other differences in the stadium graphic. Like what appear to be bushes behind the first base stands area, at the base of the light tower. Could the “waterfall” just be an opening in uncompleted bleachers? I wonder if old Candlestick pics could help determine if one is older than the other.

Going to guess the one with the press box/scoreboard up on stilts is the older one.

I would agree.

It worked out well that Ooribay and I were both able to fill in missing pieces in our collections.

Reds pennant info request
 

Looking for a little more knowledge on this puppy. My pennant sense tells me this style is part of a series made for some or all teams and probably in the 40's but wanted to check with the experts ;)

Yup. I have seen that exact motif used for the White Sox, Yankees and perhaps a few others. Definitely 1940s, and rare to find a Reds version. Great score!

Thanks, Mark. I suspected that might be the case...

Never seen a Washington Senators/Nationals version and don't think they made one.

Here’s the Yankees version (not mine).

Thanks, Mike. Cool to see another team.

Anyone have any other teams to show from this style?

Close but no cigar...

Before and after pictures of my most recent pickup.

^^^^ Bleach? Oxyclean?

I started with warm water to to get the surface dirt off. Followed it up with a few rounds of Retro Clean to get the yellowing out. Thought about hitting it with bleach but decided to quit while I was ahead.

Nice pickup and a great job cleaning it.

Good call. I don’t think the orange would have handled bleach.

Read description. Thoughts?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20410095230...oAAOSwgr5jLjrT

You hear a lot of 70 year olds use the term “legit” in their daily vernacular. Seems “legit” to me

To me, the "felt" looks more modern than 1958. If original to '58, it would be made of cloth or a softer felt. Looks like an early '70s re-strike to me.

That's a reasonable description, Greg. Trench made that pennant; and, they made a 1960 and 1961 photo pennant using the same "LOS / ANGELES" script with team photos bearing 1960 or '61 dates--all shot at the Coliseum. So, the story checks out. See below pennant. (source: Doug Goodman's spectacular collection.)

...But, if it was purchased at the ballpark in 1958, it didn't come from Dodger Stadium; rather, the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum where they played in those early days.

I didn't think it was from the 50's because I didn't think they were using the flying ball logo then, but as Domer pointed out to me it did appear on some pennants in Brooklyn in 1955. I see the flying ball logo, although somewhat different than the eBay pennant, does appear on LA novelty items in the 1960 mail order catalog, so who knows?

Rick

Attachment 535557

My earlier post was a joke. This pennant is from the 70’s

I’m glad you cleared that up…. because I was confused! :p

For the sake of bumping this thread....JR got a pretty healthy price for this:

A recent pickup to keep the thread going.

I've not seen this pennant in Blue and Red before. The graphics aren't awe inspiring but the condition is great and the price was ridiculously cheap.

Very nice Keezer pennant. Great shape, too!

Can you spot the red flag?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22518833606...0AAOSwNOBjOgXz

I can’t….but, then again, I pay no attention to D**gers stuff. :cool:

Fake spine. Looking at the stitching....

A. The vertical stitches are way too small/close together for Trench

B. The horizontal stitching at top and bottom of spine does not allow for a stick to go through

Trench never sewed them like this (nor did anyone else that I'm aware of).

Yep. You got it. Also I’m not sure this is cloth. The printing looks different, as if it is rubberized so that it wouldn’t crack. I think this pennant was reproduced at some point and this is one of them.

Wow, that is scary good. Who in the world would have the capability to make something like this, and for what purpose? Would it be worth their while to make just one, and if there were more than one, wouldn't you experts have spotted them coming out on the market? On the other hand, M&N and others have put out some realistic repro/fantasy pennants, so I guess the technology is available. But I'm amazed someone could think they could get away with faking these and go to the trouble of doing it to make a few bucks. Of course, as we've seen in cards and autographs, where there's money to be made, anything's possible, so why not memorabilia, too?

Good questions and observations, Hank!

Looking at the first picture of the full pennant, I can definitely see some puckering and cracking of the scroll portion. I am not sure about the "rubberized" graphics theory, as a result. Plus, all of his other pennants for sale are authentic. I know there are reproductions of this pennant, but think this one is authentic with a replaced spine.

I have seen countless pennants where the body of the pennant is perfect, but the spine has multiple moth nips and holes. For some reason, the bugs seemed to favor the spine portion for their "meal".

To me, it makes the most sense that this pennant was nicely stored away for most of its life (which would explain the lack of wear), but that moths got to the spine. I think someone replaced the spine at some point, and the "seamstress" simply didn't properly replicate the original style of stitching.

College Basketball

Gorgeous!

The seller is a good guy, I have bought from him before. I think it’s a genuine mistake. These are very good repros. I’ve seen these before. Below are pics of the scroll on (a) authentic and (b) the one in question. There are clear differences. (I have three of these and the scrolls all match.) You can see it with “ALSTON, Mgr.” and the alignment of “NEWCOMBE and WALKER” for example. Mark, I see the puckering you see but I think that’s from the material bring felt and not thin smooth cloth. I don’t see any cracking.

So that doesn’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it isn’t circa 1955, just that it’s a different screen, and I’m not sure why there would be two different with the same names … just my opinion

Here are a couple other versions of the ebay pennant, note the similar stitching and the use of blue threading on the back (which should be red). The third link is to an authentic '55. Can also see a difference with respect to the placement of the year.

https://auction.lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=88844

https://www.josportsinc.com/products...mpions-pennant

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16566251892...4AAOSwOY1jF3j1

I was inclined to agree with Mark's explanation: most likely, someone sewed a new replacement spine + tassels to a genuine '55 pennant. Why not? You've got a perfect, otherwise mint pennant that will sell for crazy money; but for some unsightly moth bites on the spine. Easy fix: swap out the spines. (Only us pennant nerds would notice!).

Sidenote: I always wondered why moths seemed to like spines and tassels over other parts. The reason is the spines + tassels were made with genuine wool even in the 1950s and 60s. That wasn't always true for the bodies, which were typically wool/rayon blends by the 1950s. So, if you were a moth, you wouldn't waste your time with the bodies unless it was a ca. 1910s pennant made from 100% wool.

Anyway, then I looked at the screen printed graphics and noted something that gave me pause. According to my research on Trench, and my conversations with Mr. Storm himself, these pennants were made a certain way. First they screen printed the graphics in white (called an underbase). Then, they applied all secondary and tertiary colors via an airbrush + blockout stencil.

I'm not sure I see evidence of this process/look on this '55 pennant.... The pink in the bum's shirt looks like it was printed using pink (not white) paint. We can even see evidence of the royal blue shining through it, because they used unleaded (contemporary) paint, which lacked the opacity that Trench's white leaded paints were known for. That's why both the white scroll and the pink shirt look a little blotchy.

Just an observation. I hope I'm wrong ... because it's a convincing reproduction and it would fool many a buyer.

Another thing that jumps out is that the black in Emmet’s derby and beard is jet black on the eBay pennant, the authentic versions like all with the bum have more a granite shade.

Also … you’ll love this … Emmet’s eyebrows are supposed to match his hair (gray). The eBay pennant has EK with black brows.

It has fooled many buyers, see the link to the one in the Leland’s auction.

The comparison clinches it, no doubt. Now the question is, why was it made? And that's where the scary part comes in: I hope we're not in for a generation of repros good enough to be floating around shows and auctions without question.