However the only opinion which matters is what their attorneys and Insurance companies told them to do. Anything else just conjecture and "what if" scenarios with the peanut gallery trying score whatever points with whomever. Again, to be in their situation, would make a lot of people act differently as it could BK their whole operation

I understand what your saying, and yes I get the point that you're making. I'm not saying this was some sort of harebrained inside job or the likes. I'm not trying to score points with anyone. I feel bad for the collectors that are missing out on cards they thought they won, and even worse from the perspective that some of these cards might never see the light of day again.

Yes I cannot believe people who are not multi-millionaires also have opinions and some of those filthy poor people are against hosting fraudulent auctions. The audacity of those disgusting poors! Of course I concur that only the top .5% or so should ever have an opinion permissible to be expressed in a public place. Hopefully nobody richer than you comes along to disagree.

Do you have a home health care aid standing by to remind you to breathe? Agian as a plebian, you can't assume that legally they were fraudulent auctions, as the auction house owns the property. To put in print, May open yourself up for libel.

You might want to check the dictionary before you make those insults. Mirriam-Webster attached, but you may use any dictionary you like.

Is running an auction for cards you don't have and cannot provide to winners deceitful? Of course it is.

Is running an auction for cards which you do not have and cannot produce without ever telling anyone you don't have them deceiving or misrepresenting things? Obviously it is.

Is auctioning cards that you do not have as if you have them 'not what it seems or is represented to be'? Obviously that is the case.


This is why everyone else has argued that it is okay to do this, instead of trying to completely deny it. Please, file suit! I cannot wait.

You're right, if there's great stuff to bid on, people will continue to bid, but will potential consignors feel comfortable consigning?

Ph.il Gr0dsky

No doubt. I think I even posted that a few days ago. I doubt there will be a loss of business for the company.

What should stick is that now it behooves anyone who consigns to try to establish a value (for insurance purposes, not a guarantee of what the items will sell for) with the auction house prior to sending them your stuff. And an inquiry might be made to see if the items consigned will be away from the premises at any time and what that looks like.

I hate that this is the way I said above but it’s 100% factual. People will continue Running cover and speaking nothing but positive about parts of the industry because they feel someday they are gonna need them…there is always a motive behind it. When it comes down to it people who say it’s about the cards they’re sadly wrong. It’s about the money and people's greedy tail, it’s always about the money and their selfish selves. The Almighty dollar is the most important thing. People are just afraid to talk because they think it’s gonna lower the price of their cards or they’re not gonna get treated fairly when they need to liquidate them through an auction house.

Cards
 

Obviously a tough situation…I’m sure that the consigner of the “missing cards” would much rather see them paid for and owned by a collector / member of the hobby than disposed of. For all of us, I hope that they show up.

For the love of God, someone please put this horse out of it's misery!!

Can’t imagine what a consignor would say if they were able to give their honest opinion. Instead, there is the hope of being made whole and the fear of retribution if they express otherwise. Snowman experienced a version of that. Good luck to those affected but my fear would be that the AH will turn self interested.

Why?

It's a generally positive thing to exchange ideas and opinions regarding topics such as this.

You can choose to not continue reading the thread.

That's no fun and makes WAY too much sense. He is the type who apparently prefers to complain and then expose himself to the very thing he does not like.

They were not stolen

Had I known about the theft & not having a clue which cards were stolen, I would not have made 1 bid on anything. Therefore, I would not have won a thing. Kind of like Logic 101

Presumably you bid on cards you were hoping to win so I don't understand why you're not happy you actually won them. I am sure the people who bid on cards that were stolen aren't happy they won't be receiving the cards they though they had won.

Sad but true. This will be but a distant memory in the future.

In the end, it is a sad story and I do hope these are recovered.

I doubt we get any additional information on this unless the cards are recovered.

Pretty sure Ryan isn't afraid to share his real thoughts. If Memory Lane wanted to mess with him I think they would regret it. That being said, I don't doubt that all consignors are going to be made whole even if they but ML on blast.

Nothing to be afraid of Ryan is a professional and I believe it's in all party's best interests to keep quiet and let things play out.

We all have our opinions and that's much respected and valued. Nothing is going to change things will move on as usual.

The whole thing stinks.

Adding that Ryan, as well as Jamie (blunder) selling off, the precipice is very close now

That's an inductive leap. People sell for various reasons: personal finances, desire to do something else with the money, moving, etc. You cannot make macro conclusions from micro actions of a few people.

Vintage card prices have been declining (gasp) for a while now, but there are no 'precipices', just a normal correction off of some crazy market highs.

If you want to predict that the sky is falling, you are probably right...eventually. Most leading economists have successfully predicted nine of the last five recessions.

True, buuuuttt more akin to saying that the influx of covid stimulus and speficially PPP loans led to people into buying cards they shouldn't, couldn't or wouldn't otherwise.. when any big players starting out...be fearful. Heck I sold! That tell you something right there ...I kid

I didn't mean it in that way, I simply meant that Ryan is in a position where an auction company wouldn't be able to bully him.

it was in response to the "fear of retribution" line in what I quoted. Maybe I over-stated, but the idea that Ryan would be afraid of any auction company's "retribution" for expressing his opinion is pretty amusing to me. Of course Ryan is an adult and a professional and will conduct himself as such, but not because of the intimidation of some auction company.

Thanks for the question. While I don't feel I owe you or others an explanation of my vague statements, out of respect for the people involved, my respect for NET54 and it's members I'll try.

I don't really like doing business with companies I don't like or trust. I do believe what ML did before and after the facts are not right. Others have a different opinion. That's OK. I actually have stood up against big companies in my life never to do business with them again. I have fired GM (1983-2021-I really wanted that Corvette, :rolleyes:) over a car that blew up after 15K miles (I paid less for that car than I did the 3-baseball cards), Costco and American Express to name just a few.

Currently, I have paid ML over 5K in commissions for goods I do not have. I don't like that I have to go pick up the cards that I'm "hoping" are there. I hope Santa Claus comes down the chimney Dec 25th too. I had 2 choices. Not pay them like a big fat loser and damage my reputation or Pay them and move on. I conduct ALL my business with Integrity, which is why I believe I have this type of $$$ to piss away on baseball cards in the first place. I paid them immediately.

I would not have bid at all on this auction had I known there were still many "unidentified" cards stolen from it so they could continue to run their sham of an auction. I don't really give a sh** the reasons. IMHO, it was not right or just. That's how I live my life. You or others are free to make your own decisions. I've made mine and I will stick to it. I did not appreciate how they handled the cards going into or out of Shitsville. Memory Lane is just that after my pick-up TUESDAY...a BAD MEMORY. I hope that helps? ;)

A little thing one of you put together for me long ago. But I think it's appropriate to post it.

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=25382

Doesn't want to be part of the "billion dollar fraud"

It needs a guy with a stick hitting the horse.:D

This is another writeup about the theft:

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/cr...a-965bf2018411

The only additional information I see is The collection of 54 missing cards includes rare Cracker Jack cards, along with high-quality Mickey Mantle and Roberto Clemente cards.

Exactly!:D At least you've come around Teddy to it ALL being a billion dollar fraud now:D:D:D:)

I realize their hands are somewhat tied due to an ongoing LE investigation and insurance concerns, but I cannot belive they haven't issued a one page statement to the collecting world "DEAR OUR LOYAL CONSIGNORS, CUSTOMERS, AND OTHER LOYAL SUPPORTERS" and said . . . . well, . . . something. Even if we wish we could say more, but are really honest folks, have always appreciated your loyal patronage, thank you [nine different ways], and we will keep you informed as this plays out. That seems like basic public relations and crisis management 101. Saying nothing is not a smart move to limit reputational harm.

auction stolen
 

I get the jist of this sad tale, but not understanding one part -

OK, these stolen cards. Why were they going to Best West OH ?

I thought they were all in the Mem Lane auction ?

Was the plan to display all cards at show and try and drum up more bids ?

Or last day of bidding coinciding with last day of show for excitement ?

In the real world that is what should be done but this is our hobby. They just have to have some amazing stuff in their next auction and all will be forgotten.

It's pretty standard at big shows to display cards that will be in an upcoming auction to attract bidders.

I agree. Even if they’re not permitted to say much, they can say something.

Almost 4 weeks now since the theft. I don't expect anything now from them, except an email announcing their next auction.

Or to pay them for the items you won and they are in possession of.

On a positive note…. I will say, when I win items of value from Memory Lane, it comes in a very nice ML box, and on my birthday they send a card with a couple pieces of candy. So, they do acknowledge their customers and do the little things right.

Yay!

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Mmmm, candy.

As a along time lurker around here, I love this type of thread

Would anyone have concerns if ML did the exact opposite? Scenario:

Immediately after the theft, ML informs the consignors about the stolen cards and removes those cards from the auctions. Auction runs without the cards.

If that happened, would we still have a 600 comment post on net 55?

Yes as no matter what they done it would have been wrong for a few and news to the rest of us.

I think there are 3 people left reading this but that is an interesting question. I think it was posed early on but I think the usual and customary thing we see is that when a house has an issue with a lot (whatever the reason) while the auction is going on, they pull the lot. For whatever reason the house decided the lot cannot be sold, shipped, etc. I have seen this with larger auctions where 3 or 4 lots are pulled.

54 key lots is a big deal. It would not be a forgone conclusion the remaining lots would have done better because those bidding on the 54 stolen lots may have had zero interest in other lots in the auction. Also you might have lost bidders too because those 54 lots were drawing people into the auction but that in and of itself is not a reason to let the auction go on with the missing lots.

Generally speaking I think we all prefer to be bidding on things we are relying on the house to have and be able to ship. It is why when we get something from an auction where the image and/or the description do not agree with the item once in hand, we are disappointed.

As has been said over and over this was a no win situation for the company once they shipped the cards to nobody in the middle of nowhere.

I think few, if any, people would've had an issue with that.

Nobody would say, "Wait! They should've deceived all their bidders so they could see what people would've been willing to pay, for purposes of filing their insurance claim."

There'd probably be a split, one could credibly argue that removing 54 of the best cards would lose some bidders interest and could be bad for consigners, just as one can credibly argue that smaller consigners may have lost some bids by people budgeting for the bigger cards that were not actually for sale.

When people argue from the outcome that is most beneficial to them instead of what makes sense or is honest, there will always be a split because somebody doesn't do as well in each scenario.

The difference, of course, is that the other path is actually honest and the path taken of hosting a fraudulent auction (still waiting for the lawsuit) is blatantly dishonest. I have learned from this board that dishonesty that is beneficial to certain people is a good thing though and the truth should not ever intrude and the common sense 'being honest is the right path' is a silly absurdity and I am stupid for wondering how Memory Lane acquired this bizarrely unique insurance plan that requires hosting of said fraudulent auction.

There'd be a groundswell of support for the AH and the consignors who were victims of a crime, and the thread would have died about 100-odd expressions of support into it. Instead, we have a polarizing, endless debate essentially over whether two wrongs make a right.

Of course, that would be on "net 55". On Net 54 it would pretty much turn into a dumpster fire regardless.

Please, don't let this thread die, it deserves life!

That’s exactly what they should have done, Bottom Line…you nailed it.

Thank you, I'm sure their legal team may or may not agree.

Which is truly the bottom line...for them.

Regardless of the opinions of the Supreme Court of message boards.