Maybe disapproving parent is related to slightly overweight Tiger....

Slightly disapproving Tiger Parent looks like his son broke curfew and had beer breath.

Overweight Tiger just looks mean, and ready to bite your head off if you say or do the wrong thing. Let’s call that one the PMS-ing ex-wife Tiger. :rolleyes:

All I see is a white mustache and beard. Santa Claws.

��

Aw come on… not fair to Santa! I’ve never seen him irate like that.

Look at the glare in those eyes… the outraged look when your wife first discovers that you forgot to do the dishes, and then finds a receipt for something expensive you bought on eBay.

It’s an unmistakeable look… I’m positive that the artist was a married man and drew from his experience.

I think this came with a box of Frosted Flakes

It’s grrrrrrreat!

Well Greg, that is a fine observation; and I had wondered about that as well....

I think it's a combination of several factors. First, the Great Depression probably didn't help any. Not only were less people attending ballgames in the 1930s, they were buying less consumer goods in general. Money was tight. Advertisers used pennants to help sell all kinds of products. It's no surprise then that the single most common pennant of the late 1930s was the BF3 mini pennant. It could be made so cheaply, advertisers gave them away as promotional items. They were so collectible, apparently everyone forgot about the full size and oversize pennants that had dominated the first two decades of the 20th century.

Second, and this was likely the biggest reason, is the absence of children from ballparks until the 1940s, and onward. In the 1910s and 20s, no respectable family would take their kid to a ballpark. It just wasn't done. Kids had to sneak in or watch the action through a knot hole in the fence. So concessionaires, like Charles Shear and Harry M. Stevens, focused more on hot dogs and beer for the men in attendance.

This slowly began to change in the late 1930s and 40s, when ballparks began making a concerted effort to draw ladies and children inside. Not surprisingly, this is about when we see a huge influx in screen printed, 3/4 size pennants, right? It was the ideal souvenir to sell to a kid: it was cheap and its size was suitable to be waved from a dowel without really blocking anyone's view.

The MLB pennants we know surviving from the 1910s were probably made in really small batches. Nothing like the output of Trench, ADFLAG, WGN, etc. by the 1950s. In those days, pennants were more common on collegiate landscapes--not ballparks.

Fantastic observation. Makes sense for sure.

Great stuff Kyle! And yes it makes sense.

Great pickup that's a pretty rare pennant. I love team photo pennants. Is that photo glued on to the front of the pennant or is it fixed from the back?

Vintage or new?
 

I saw this 1955 Dodgers World Series pennant in a live online auction and the sellers kept remarking about how wonderful the condition was on this vintage pennant. I immediately felt like it was a modern fantasy piece. Anyone ever see this before?

Your instincts are correct. It's by Mitchell and Ness, ca. 2000s.

And, the auctioneer certainly knows better.... :mad:

Amazing how many people are "fooled" buy this one. I actually had to contact REA (sometime around 2010) to have this pennant taken down from one of their auctions.

Their consigner had a long-winded story about his father acquiring it at Ebbets Field. Nothing about it looks vintage, so I don't understand why people (who should know better) are continually duped by it.

The auction was one of these live Facebook group auctions, and it was a couple that I had never seen before or had never participated in their sales. I was 99% sure it was a modern piece, but since I didn’t have absolute certainty, I didn’t say anything during the sale. I saw it when they first brought it up and then I left the sale for a bit and when I came back, it had been sold already. I believe it sold for about $155.

I actually can’t fault the auctioneers but so much because they try to sell so many different things that they come across that they aren’t well-versed in much of anything. There are often times where I get really good deals on stuff because the seller just isn’t knowledgeable enough about the item that they’re selling. I now know that this is definitely a modern piece, so I’m going to message the seller and hopefully they’ll do the right thing and let the buyer out of their bid.

Edited to add: I just spoke with the seller and told them that it was a modern piece and they thanked me very much and said that they had bought it as a vintage piece and didn’t know so they were going to contact the buyer and cancel the sale.

Spot on description! :p

Nice job! You did the right thing and so did the AH, as the buyer paid about $125 too much.

That's a good result and auctioneer has built some good will for the future. For reference, I believe that Mitchell and Ness had a series of these pennants with the year screen printed on the spine. Here's another example.

For future reference, I don’t know of any vintage pennants with anything screened onto a stitched-on spine (like the year on these pennants).

On the subject of Tigers pennants, a heads-up, this one isn’t vintage to 1968. Should be obvious to many of us but this tends to fetch a vintage price, like some of those M&Ns bring discussed …

https://www.ebay.com/itm/33553649052...mis&media=COPY

There are a few.... Cardinals for sure, and I'm pretty sure St. Louis Browns as well. I have one that's 100% legit, but it's stashed away. Will post a pic when I find it.

Stellar pictures. :rolleyes:

You’re referring to the “grommet” pennants? Yes but those don’t have spines, just a screened-on strip. I was referring to a stitched spine (i.e. a separate piece of material sewn on).

Here are Cardinals and Browns with the year … I have seen Cards with 1937 and 1938. No other dated Browns.

I swear I have a non-grommet version. Now I’ll have to dig it out.

Stay tuned!

Get digging. I’m skeptical. :p

and I can’t wait to see who’s “right.” (I post in another forum that used to have a guy munching popcorn emoji. It would be perfect for this.) 🍿

We can both be right! I am merely saying that I don’t know of any such pennants. I can’t possibly claim that there are none in existence …

Make a giant batch of popcorn, as this could take some time. But it will happen!!

If it’s a Browns pennant I might need CPR …

Made with 8% Real Pennant!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25660950268...mis&media=COPY

While digging around for the "dated spine" pennant, I found a few "rare birds" that I thought I'd share. Nice to re-discover these...

More...

And lastly, the elusive Dated 1938 Cardinals Pennant with sewn spine...

Well, I’ll be…. :p

Only in the Steinberg collection, does the stuff above ^^^ get relegated to Rubbermaid tubs.

Mark - great pennants! That 1938 Cardinals is awesome! Truly a rarity.

Great stuff, Mark. I especially like the red Browns pennant and the Reds pennant.

Feel free to open more bins and take more pictures.

This might seem like a silly question, but have any of you big-time pennant guys ever seen one with the stick it came with? Obviously, removing the stick makes everything easier down the line, but I would still think you'd see some in the original purchased form from time to time, but I don't think I ever have.

Here’s one. This full-size pennant was made with no spine - I’ve seen other examples - and the wide end was stapled onto the dowel. Very strange but this is how it was.

Mark-
You have better stuff packed away in tubs than 90% of collectors have on their walls. Thanks for the peak.

Funny...I have a handful of dowel rods sitting on a dresser in my spare room. Have picked up a few pennants with them over the years and never knew what to do with the sticks...but can't bring myself to get rid of them.

Thanks Rob, Marc, Mike and Greg...

Regarding the sticks.... I agree with Hank that they are surprisingly few and far between. You'd think a lot more would have survived along with the pennants. Like Rob, I have saved a few though...

In the '40s-50s, many of them came with a red or green bamboo cane that had a curved handle. In the '60s, they pretty much exclusively used a plain dowel rod. I imagine the dowel rod was far quicker/easier to insert because it is smooth... it must have been annoying to slide the bamboo cane into the spine, as it would inevitably get caught in there more than a few times.

Can't even remember the last time I went to a game and saw vendors marching up and down the aisles with hoards of pennants and other souvenirs. It's now relegated to food and drinks, but the memories remain!

I have this 34 tiger pennant that came as a walking cane. There is no spine on the pennant as the long end is sandwiched between the metal tube.

And if I’m not mistaken, that’s made of a silky material, correct?

I have the standard version, felt with spine and two-colored tassels.

Weird thing is, that exact lineup was never used in all of 1934.

Best thread on the entire internet? :p

100%

The Steinberg Rubber Maid Collection is something else.

The pennant is made of silk which makes it somewhat difficult to display. I also believe there is another version of the silk kind out there where Cochrane's name is spelled wrong?

I've also never seen the non-silk version you have. If you ever decide to part ways with it let me know so I can decide what kid doesn't really need to go to college, lol.

Top to bottom, who made the 14 pennants from the Rubbermaid Collection?

I especially like the Athletics and the giant lurking behind the Capitol.

A cautionary tale for those inclined to clean pennants. Someone regrets it.

If it’s pre-1970, just don’t.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20488366037...mis&media=COPY

lol!

Been there...looks like it was soaked too long in Oxyclean. The dye bleeds through the cracks in the screenprinting. <bad memories>

I had a post 1970 one that I faded the crap out. Shit happens.

LOL! … will do!

I was recently able to make a deal for the top pennant. Still need to iron out the tip. This copy actually has the best/most color (i.e., spray paint) I've ever seen. Those that have evidence of painting are usually even more faded. It's more common to find what appear to be monochrome versions, although it's unclear if the monochrome versions had the paint originally (and the paint completely faded over time) or never had paint. My monochrome version has no evidence of the orange in Giants or on the batter, but maybe has hint of yellow in the "explosion" where the ball is hitting the bat.

Mine is buried in a tub but I did have this picture. It appears to have color in Giants, but very very faint. The spine seems to be a different orange. Maybe the bottom one had the color completely faded away?

About that spine, here is my last copy (it's not an illness, I swear). It has that spine and also has tassels (which is why I had the multiple copies). It has what appears to be a trace of orange in the "t", although I'd need to get it out to make sure that was not dirt. Starting to think they all had paint at one point.

Great pickup, Marc...

That should iron out beautifully. Let's see the "after" pic, if/when you have a chance!

I gotta learn how to airbrush. :cool:

from a commemorative ESPN magazine I just got...

I wonder where the Mays' Mays pennant ended up?

I had a few new arrivals. They need an iron and a clean.

The Expos pennant isnt very expensive but I love the simplicity of the design. Is it Keezer or WGN?

The first two are definitely by Keezer. I believe the Expos is by ADFLAG....

Thanks Kyle.

The cool thing about airbrushing in the early 60s...Nobody was good at it.

The Expos font bears a resemblance to the 1967 Montreal World’s Fair pennant, which is also where they got their name.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16679729159...mis&media=COPY

The bigger mystery is the 1950 Yankees. Kinda looks like Trench design, but construction is very different. Many, but not all, of those are made in extremely soft and fragile felt. Almost like Kleenex. Yours looks nice and better quality. I think Mark has it and can confirm. The sister Phillies pennant has the same graphic.

You know, I never knew that about how the Expos got their name.

With regards to the 1950 Yanks pennant,it is extremely soft and feels very fragile, just like you described.

Yup, just another mystery in Trench's rich history....

Why is the 1950 Phillies version made with such nice thick substantial felt, while the matching Yankees is almost like soft cotton that you can practically pull apart with your fingers?

If you really want to torture yourself, try getting that Yankees pennant to slide into a rigid toploader. And be sure to set aside at least an hour. :eek:

Is that original color or owner applied?

I think Rob figured out that the Dallas pennant, this attached Giants pennant, and a number of other colorful versions all came from the same auction lot (I forget which auction).

This Giants clearly has more paint that the typical pennant. The batter is painted pretty carefully. The bat and bridge? Not so much.

Looks like their block-out stencil had some holes in it....

I honestly can't tell. If it's owner applied, he knew what he was doing. It's pretty intricate.

Watching a series called The Americans on Hulu, which is set in early 1980s Washington D.C. … noticed this amazing specimen. Keri Russell also not half bad …

I haven't had the pleasure of getting the 1950 Yanks pennant into a toploader yet. Something to look forward to tomorrow :-)

Just checking is the 1950 Yankees pennant by Trench or Epstein. I had a note that it was Eptsein Novelty from when the topic was discussed starting in post #7173

My guess would be neither. I suspect Domer will disagree, though, and he may know better given his research. The black pennant is Trench, the red has nothing in common with it besides the player graphic.

I think the best argument out there is, yes, Trench is the manufacturer of both. :)

For me, there's too many similarities between the two pennants to ignore. The tapered four-digit year on the tail-end of the pennants is identical, both in terms of location and script. Trench did this throughout the 1940s and 50s. it was practically their signature in those days. See below.

As to the artwork of the catcher + runner duo--it's pretty much the same on both pennants, too. This is a significant connection, for me. I don't know if it was original to Trench's art department, or they simply copied it from a team publication or logo, but ... the fact that it appeared on at least one Trench pennant suggests they would have no objection to its further use on another design. I know that's simple logic, but it makes a lot of sense doesn't it?

I can't speak to the composition discrepancies you all noted; however, the Phillies and companion Yankees pennant were both league championship pennants, i.e., they were made for and sold at the world's series. This means the manufacturer had limited time to make these. They undoubtedly would have cut corners here and there. They may even have contracted with other printers in Philadelphia to make some, which would explain why the felt may not look like that which we'd expect to come from Buffalo, NY (Trench). We've all seen evidence before of this. Might that just explain why these were composed of unusual materials?

Maybe that paper thin cotton-like stuff was super cheap? Maybe it absorbed the ink better? Trench was known for being an innovative company and they experimented with several types of felt throughout the 1950s.

I picked up a great group of football and baseball pennants. I know that at least a couple of them are really good, but would love some thoughts as I'm more of a college guy.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...cc2df81aee.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7d00a9b773.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...de276ce9ab.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6c05391654.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...cd5400915b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...db4d7352b9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...dc67b14856.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...527dbae7db.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0a951bfbb3.jpg

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Picked up a Montgomery Rebels pennant recently, not sure why it is so tough to find Montgomery related items but I was happy to snare it!

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=37874

The Giants Playoff and Bears are the rarest. The Eagles and Browns are really good too but not as rare. I'll let the baseball experts speak to the baseball though that's not a Pirates you see every day.

Those are all fantastic, and most of them are very rare. I can’t say that I’ve ever seen the 1958 pennant and that’s in great condition … those tend to fade easily. Great pickups!

I’m a Giants football fan and I love those pennants!

Cool, but I guess not surprising, that the baseball Giants have the exact same font.

Nice, Casey!

Was this part of a big find? Were all of the pennants about the same age/era? I ask because the Bears pennant is of a style that many of us believed for a long time was from the 1940s or early 1950s (and may still be). They have been found for several teams from that era, but not all. And they are rare.

Then one showed up for the Atlanta Falcons??? 1965 or so? It could be something the pennant maker made in the style of the older pennants, but it seems like an odd design to pick because it is uncommon and only 3/4 size.

Here is Rob's Falcons pennant and my 49ers.