450 now
 

And we're 90 percent of the way to 500 --- I'm looking forward to Mother's Day to face Stu Miller

Rich

Case decided in our favor!!!
 

A few of our customers wanted to know how ebay would rule on this case so here is the update:


Hi carterscards2006,
eBay Customer Support has reviewed the case and made a final decision.

We decided not to issue the buyer a refund. You don't need to do anything else for this case. The hold on this PayPal transaction has been removed. This case is closed.

Decision:
This case has been decided in your favor. The hold on this PayPal transaction has been removed.


Hopefully this ends this circus. Thank you!

Very intresting. I am glad that this is now over no matter what the "end" result was. Perhaps this thread can die now.
:rolleyes:

Congratulations. Finally, ebay got one right.

I highly doubt the outcome will be the death of this thread!

This thread is a zombie.

I would compare this victory to a NFL football team winning their opening regular season game, but then losing their all-star QB to torn ACL during the game.

Win the battle. Lose the war.

I have expressed no opinion in this thread, as to which side was correct. I will say, however, that a seller who does not respond to inquiries from a customer will never get any of my business.

Paul, your position in this matter, added to your criminal past, has probably cost you far more than it was worth.

Congrats.

I am sure the OP will chime in at some point :mad:

I'm agreeing with Tony
 

Tony is right! I bet this thread grows even more.

I say 500 posts is a lock.

Patriots in 2008! GQ coverboy Tom Brady went down in the first game of the season, which they won. Rookie backup Matt Cassel led them to an 11-5 record on the season, but they didn't make the playoffs.

I agree. The shill bidding, criminal past and everything else aside (that has nothing to do with this particular case), the seller didn't do anything wrong. However, I do believe he should have communicated with the buyer and hopefully has learned a lesson here.

Yeap, a phyrric victory if ever there was one.

A Pyrrhic victory.:)

Peter doesn't mind if I correct his spelling. That is a tough word indeed.

ouch!!
did I spell "embezzlement" right?

Would slugging someone with glass bakeware be considered a Pyrex Victory?

To Cartercards 2006
 

Please put me on your blocked bidder list just in case I have a senior moment.

Ebay ID: Jacklitsch

Congratulations?

If the glass bakeware turned out to be a priceless antique, it would be a pyrrhic pyrex victory.

ba da bum
 

and if that glassware was shaped like the male sex organ, it would be a phallic pyrrhic pyrex victory.

It's quite a shame that the buyer is now stuck owning exactly what he paid for. lol

2 choices
 

Please put your full name by your post or edit out your comment...thanks

Haven't we been through this before? I see many people commenting without their names being displayed. Is what I said really harmful to anyone? I kind of feel like I'm being singled-out when almost every time I post on this forum you ask me to post my name when there are many many others who you don't ask this of.

Trust me from past experience. Todd can rebuttal this through Paypal and more than likely win on the technicality of card type. Also I always contact a person and have them notate everything. Seems to work great IMO.

I must have missed something in the 500 + posts. Was the card actually removed from the GAI holder? Paypal never sides with the seller, it must be an aberration. Next thing you know ebay will allow sellers to leave negative feedback for bidders who never pay.

There is no more rebuttal through PayPal anymore from what I understand. If it is an ebay sale, they make you go through ebay since they are now one in the same company.

Actually you still lose because Id bet about half the people on this thread will never use your services again. PR > profit from one sale.

Looking at his sales from the past 15 days, I don't think he's too concerned about that. Seller hasn't missed a beat.

Sure hes still going to have business, but it will be less then it could have been if he had handeled this with more class. Im not saying he alienated everyone, but Id say the opinions are split about 50/50 on this thread. In terms of value creation or value destruction, he destroyed future value by alienating customers.

no...and why?
 

NO, I am not singling you out. I don't know you at all. There would be no reason to do that. I am getting sort of tired of reminding folks though. The last several times I have just put their names out there and not said anything. The only one I see in this thread is jezzeaepi that is going to be next. He needs to put his name in his post too. I promise it's not personal and I promise I am getting tired of asking for names to be put in posts. Yes, if you get sarcastic with someone, or a comment, your name needs to be by your post. If I said something sarcastic to, or about you, you would want to know who is saying it. If I didn't asked someone to do it then it's because I missed it. regards

Not at all. But I do understand that it is your policy. I don't ever want to know anyone's name I meet on message boards because I simply have no use for it, but that's just me. We had a 7 page thread about this once, so that is why I brought it up. No harm intended.

I strongly disagree. Look at the prices he realized in his past auction and they're all in line with VCP. Sure, he probably alienated some buyers, but does he really care as long as his sales are around VCP average?

For example, If he has a card with a VCP of $500, it's still going to sell for about that price no matter how many bidders the auction has. Does he care if he has 10 bidders or 20 bidders as long as the result is still the same?

In other words, if you have a small business and your goal is $10K a week in sales, do you care if you have 10 customers that each spend $1000, or 5 customers that each spend $2000? No, you care about meeting your goals and making a profit.

The bottom line is that it may have cost him some customers, but it didn't cost him any volume.

Edited to add: If anything, it cost Todd because I know for a fact that he's ended up on several seller's BBL.

mine and the board's
 

Yes, we have had many discussions about this privacy issue. Personally I would want to know who I am debating with or who is getting sarcastic with me. Not that it's a really bad thing but just because I like to know the source of my rebuttals. I do believe the vast majority of the board wants this policy too. Again, nothing personal at all and please don't take it that way. IF folks just put their name in their sig line then they would rarely hear from me concerning these issues.

It's a great place here
 

I agree with this simple policy. I had a guy blast me and I needed to know who it was and get to the bottom of the messy situation and resolve it.
Leon is doing us a HUGE service by providing us a nice home here on net54.
I thank God every day I can visit, learn, buy, sell and have fun with this great group of hobbyists. Give Leon a break and just follow the rules, please.

David, I agree with the post above. I'm a happy customer of yours and Leons and I value what all of you gentlemen have posted here.

Thanks,
Bill Hedin

I'm guessing you don't run your own business. Yes, it is extremely important to keep ALL customers happy--the funny thing about running a business is that you NEVER know the business that you lost. Even though he may be averaging near VCP, if he is losing even one high paying customer he is losing out on money and this thread and his responses have alienated at least one (Todd) and several other shave expressed their feelings towards not bidding with him.

"In other words, if you have a small business and your goal is $10K a week in sales, do you care if you have 10 customers that each spend $1000, or 5 customers that each spend $2000? No, you care about meeting your goals and making a profit."

This is very short-sighted as business doesn't work this way, why be happy with the 5 customers vs. the 10 when you could have had 11, 12 or 13 if you had just played your cards right and not pissed people off?

Rhett there is no winning with this one. He will be right no matter if the wall is blue and he says its green.

Actually I have owned my own business (Dealer Advertising Solutions, LLC) and I have worked for eBay and later served as a consultant to eBay Motors. However, you totally missed my point. Let me give you a real example. In Catererscards2006 last auction, he had a T206 Evers Cubs on Shirt PSA 5 that sold for $520. The VCP average is $528 and the last one sold on eBay for $504, so I think the card was in line with what it should have sold for. The auction had 19 bidders. My point is does it matter if the auction has 9 bidders, 19 bidders or 29 bidders as long as it sells for what it should? No, who cares about the number of bidders? The only thing that matters is the hammer price and I repeat the statement I made earlier. He hasn't missed a beat.

Sportscardtheory- I've been involved in this same discussion many times and it is not only about whether or not you care who you are talking to on a chatboard. In a sense it doesn't even matter; your name is now by your avatar and since it's not a name I recognize it probably doesn't change anything for me.

People need to put their name out because it holds them accountable for what they say. I think twice before I post because whatever I say reflects who I am, and given the choice I'd prefer to put my best foot forward. But if I posted anonymously I could say any damn thing I wanted to without consequence. I could slander people on the board, curse people out, and say whatever I wanted, no matter how hurtful, because nobody would know it was me. But with my name out there I feel I have to post intelligently (debatable, I know), and with consideration towards others.

David, believe me I didn't "miss" your point! I understand what you were trying to say, I just think it is fallacious logic.

from your logic in this thread i'm amazed that you have the capability to earn an income and collect cards. that's a feat in itself. i saw a couple t206s i wanted this past weekend but guess who the seller was? there are enough crooks and scammers in this hobby, i try to only support the good guys.

well done CC2006 on the outcome. as we know ebay is never wrong in their decision or judgement.

http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/a...casticclap.gif

See that is where I disagree. You have a higher chance of getting more money for an item if there are more bidders(not more bids, more bidDERs). So yes, it is an auction system, and his cards will still sell no matter what, but the point is that the price wont get driven up as much since there won't be as many interested bidders. That is economics 101 and I won't argue it any further.

The second point is that what did he GAIN by not refunding? Since it is so easy for him to sell items, he could have just as easily issued the refund, and then re-listed the card, and resold it(unless of course the under bidder was his shill account =P). Would have cost him a few shipping fees to save all this negative PR. Now, whenever you search for carters cards on Google, this thread is the number one result, and I guarantee that most people who are checking him out will see "beware of carters cards" and not bother reading 50+ pages of postings.

Peace,
Jesse Rosen

Well, my logic also said Todd would lose his case and I was right.

Leon, I don't think you intentionally singled him out, but there are still some without their FULL name - pup6913 and chaddurbin.

I agree and strive for the same integrity as you do. Everything I say or do on this board reflects on who I am and I hope I come across as a decent fellow. Anyone who ever does business with me will certainly know my name, address and phone number, but having just anyone on the internet, who might stumble across this board, know who I am, sort of freaks me out a little bit.
I've had private conversations with people on this board, good people, who if they want to know my information, I would not hesitate to share it. In fact, I've learned from reading this board that there are some people who I would not hesitate to give my name to if they were just curious, because I can see they are trustworthy, respectful people and would not share my information if I asked them not to.
If there ever comes a time when I feel I have to slander someone (not likely), I'll do it to their face, away from the public board. Unless it's Leon, who already has all my information :D

So that's the other side of the coin, if anybody cares.

Holy crap, this thread was dying a nice death. Almost nothing posted to this thread for 48 hours. Then out of the blue the seller (Carterscards-Paul) has to bring it back to the top to let everyone know that paypal sided with him. I understand why they sided with him but personally, that's not exactly news that I'd rather share if I was a seller. Maybe, technically, paypal got this one right but as Jim said - won the battle, lost the war....

Paul, honestly, you should have just let this die.... sadly (for your business) that $1K card will probably cost you much more than that now. On a different note - The hits from coast to coast.... this thread not only busted the top 5, it is now #4.

I think I am already banned as a result of merely questioning whether he was protecting a card during an ongoing auction through witness0202 (he didn't deny it, just wrote back that "we are done doing business"), but even if not, I wouldn't bid in one of his auctions to save my life.

Tsaiko, I agree. But it got me thinking.

Leon, are our names made public to non-members when they view this forum? I kinda like the idea of our names only being available to members.

Tsaiko- you don't have to post your name if you don't want to, as long as the posts stick to noncontroversial topics. But I for one find anonymity to be one of the oddities of the internet, and see no precedent for it in our daily lives.

Imagine any social or business situation where you interact with somebody for the first time but refuse to give out your name. But on the internet that is considered acceptable. I find it odd, and don't understand the notion of not wanting anybody to know who you are. After all, this isn't a site for child molesters to congregate. It's just baseball cards. Who cares if any one of us likes to discuss baseball cards? The need for anonymity goes right over my head, but that's me.

Thanks David. Spelling corrected.

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