t202 Joe Jackson - Schaefer on First

[bn2cardz]

I was re reading the old t202 thread regarding Joe Jackson, but for the sake of not bumping an old thread and having this question lost in there I wanted to start a new one.

I know for the Lord card the visual evidence can be found in these links:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showpost.php?p=811686&postcount=243
http://www.net54baseball.com/showpost.php?p=811838&postcount=306
http://www.net54baseball.com/showpost.php?p=811911&postcount=344
http://www.net54baseball.com/showpost.php?p=811968&postcount=361

What I can't find is any visual evidence for the Schaefer on First card. There was a link to an newspaper article by BOTN (Greg) but that has since been removed. I don't recall if it had a photo of the play or just an article supporting the card could be Jackson.

Gregs post:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showpost.php?p=818263&postcount=584


Does anyone here still have that image they are willing to share? A lot of good evidence came out in that thread, but it is hard to sift through years later.

[bn2cardz]

Since BOTN (Greg) was banned I reached out to him through his email. Even with his ban he was glad to help contribute by sending me the PDF.

I cropped it down for what appeared to be the pertinent info for those that care to preserve it for future research on the subject.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32739034317_dd64a53208_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RT37hV)May 22 1911 Photo 1st base (https://flic.kr/p/RT37hV) by andy neubert (https://www.flickr.com/photos/bn2cardz/), on Flickr

https://luckeycards.com/paper.jpg

[Webster]

Reviving old thread - curiosity was peaked by item on BST. Was this ever explored more fully?

It does appear that the Panel Photo could be taken just before the Newspaper photo; the position of the sliding player in the panel looking like it would take him past the bag just a bit after completing the slide. Opinions?

439081

439082

[bn2cardz]

Reviving old thread - curiosity was peaked by item on BST. Was this ever explored more fully?

It does appear that the Panel Photo could be taken just before the Newspaper photo; the position of the sliding player in the panel looking like it would take him past the bag just a bit after completing the slide. Opinions?

439081

439082

There was one recently sold on Ebay with the notation of Joe Jackson.

The blackbetsy site has it listed.
http://www.blackbetsy.com/baseballCards.html

But I don't think a full consensus was ever agreed upon in the hobby.

[bn2cardz]

There was one recently sold on Ebay with the notation of Joe Jackson.

The blackbetsy site has it listed.
http://www.blackbetsy.com/baseballCards.html

But I don't think a full consensus was ever agreed upon in the hobby.

I just realized the one from the BST is the same one that I referenced selling on Ebay with the name.

[tedzan]

Here are the 2 remaining T202 cards from my set. The Walter Johnson card being my favorite T202. And of course, the Lord/Tannehill
card (with possibly Joe Jax in the centerfold) being a keeper.
My feelings that it is Joe Jax sliding into 3rd base is based on 3 factors.....

Cleveland's League Park in the background (Right Field wall)
Cleveland uniform of runner sliding
Joe Jackson's big ears (under his cap) :)

However, my certainty is only a 67 - 33% proposition.


https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/T202LordTannehill50x.jpg

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/T202LordTannehill50xb.jpg

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/tedzan77/large/at202walterjohnsonxknight.jpg

https://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/tedzan77/large/bt202walterjohnsonxknight.jpg


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.

[bn2cardz]

Here are the 2 remaining T202 cards from my set. The Walter Johnson card being my favorite T202. And of course, the Lord/Tannehill
card (with possibly Joe Jax in the centerfold) being a keeper.
My feelings that it is Joe Jax sliding into 3rd base is based on 3 factors.....

Cleveland's League Park in the background (Right Field wall)
Cleveland uniform of runner sliding
Joe Jackson's big ears (under his cap) :)

However, my certainty is only a 67 - 33% proposition.


TED Z

T206 Reference (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=237816)
.


I believe there is more hobby consensus that the Lord/Tannehill card does have Jackson. It is the Schaeffer on First card that hasn't gotten the same type of consensus.

[Mark17]

Reviving old thread - curiosity was peaked by item on BST. Was this ever explored more fully?

It does appear that the Panel Photo could be taken just before the Newspaper photo; the position of the sliding player in the panel looking like it would take him past the bag just a bit after completing the slide. Opinions?

439081

439082

The stadiums are different.

[Webster]

It's possible that the stadiums are different, but it is difficult to tell from the images: the photos are taken from different angles (one has the pitcher in view, the other is angled much more toward left field), and the newspaper image is heavily cropped with frame and scroll drawn in along the edges.

[bn2cardz]

I think you would have to look at the full conversation to understand the case for/against this being Jackson on the Schaefer card:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=818263#post818263

I started this thread in regards to that original thread because I couldn't find the image in that thread.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

The original thread to me was the greatest thread that was ever on Net 54. Unbelievable research into the cards.!!!

[babeshoeless]

The photos and newspaper accounts are only part of the supporting evidence for both cards. IMHO, the smoking gun is Joe Jackson's unique right-ankle wrap. It was widely reported in contemporary sources that Jackson injured his ankle in spring training and multiple 1911 photos show Jackson wearing the white ankle wrap through at least the Addie Joss benefit game on July 24, 1911.

Collectively, the evidence supports Jackson appearing in the action photos of both the Tannehill/Lord and Milan/McBride T202 cards. Here is a quick summary:

Tannehill/Lord/Lord Catches His Man

In-game photo: Chicago White Sox at Cleveland Naps, May 5, 1911
Supporting evidence: Uniform, ears, stadium, right ankle wrap (Jackson’s ankle injury during 1911 spring training was widely reported in contemporary sources and the right ankle wrap he wore was photographed in 1911 Cleveland team photo and the Addie Joss benefit photo on July 24, 1911), newspaper photo and game summary, Cleveland Plain Dealer, May 6, 1911


Milan/McBride/Schaefer on First

In-game photo: Washington Senators at Cleveland Naps, May 21, 1911
Supporting Evidence: Uniform, ears, stadium, right ankle wrap (Jackson’s ankle injury during 1911 spring training was widely reported in contemporary sources and the right ankle wrap he wore was photographed in 1911 Cleveland team photo and the Addie Joss benefit photo on July 24, 1911); Jackson was the only Naps player with a stolen base, justifying photo of Jackson being aggressive baserunner and sliding back into first; related game accounts in Cleveland Plain Dealer, May 22, 1911


Links to photos showing Jackson's 1911 white ankle wrap:

1911 Cleveland Team Photo

https://www.christies.com/lot/lot-1911-cleveland-naps-team-panoramic-photograph-6021685/

Detail of above: https://sabr.org/gamesproj/game/august-3-1911-cleveland-naps-top-new-york-highlanders-in-wacky-contest/

Addie Joss Benefit Photo, July 24, 1911

http://www.blackbetsy.com/imagefarm/addie-joss-day-panorama-6500.jpg

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-collectibles/photos/1911-addie-joss-benefit-game-panoramic-photograph-those-who-followed-our-october-2005-signature-auction-were-surely-struck/a/704-19433.s

[robw1959]

I don't know. I'm trying to be open-minded about it, but I think I need more that an ankle wrap. The figure sliding back into first is just too short & stocky for me to believe it's Joe. I don't see any facial resemblance either.