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  #1  
Old 08-15-2007, 08:12 AM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: Ralph

I just thought that there are many on here interested in the T-210 card set that I would list the toughies.I found this set rather easy to assemble as my first lot I bought had 125 cards & it included a Joe Jackson along with 124 others at $5.00 a pop & the Jackson at $125.00 & in Exellent ++ condition.Now the Jackson card has not only become a much higher priced card it is very scarce & I would add it as a difficult find.Before I start reeling off the toughies let me add that I have been reading a lot of replies indicating the condition of these cards.It is a very condition sensitive set just like the Baseball Mayo & I believe the 1971 Topps Baseball had a black border & these card's chip easily.The overall condition of my set was better than Exellent as I had numerous cards from series 6,7 & 8 that in some cases the cards were perfect as in no chips ,creases & very sharp corners.So where are these kinds of cards now?In private hands by people who won't sell them.I know of some friends that have 30 of the T-210 cards all in great shape & they tried getting just a few cards from each series & where do you suppose those cards are in their home?Their hanging on their living room wall in a frame & they look beautiful.I too have had the pleasures of finding cards in odd places & have heard true stories as to them being found behind the walls of older homes & in pristine condition for not seeing the light of day.Now that I have rambled on enough here is the T-210 breakdown.

The Most Difficult:
Burnett-Montgomery Series 8
Hart-Montgomery Series 8
Cantwell-Fayetteville Series 7(Very,Very Difficult)
Dwyer-Fayetteville Series 7 (very ,Very Difficult)
Hyames-Wilmington Series 7 (lots of luck on this card**)
Smith-Atlanta Series 8
Whitaker-Richmond Series 6
Doster-New Orleans Series 8
Kelly-Mascot-Goldsboro Series 7(The sweetest looking card in the entire set)
McLaurin-Chattanooga series 8
Gisler-Maysville Series 6
Robertson-New Orleans series 8
Van Landingham-Shelbyville series 6
Drumm-Greenville Series 5
Merchant-Goldsboro Series 7

Semi-Difficult:
Jackson-New Orleans Series 8(Not for myself,but in todays collecting field)
Stengel-Maysville Series 6(Same notation as for Jackson card)
Yeager-Winchester Series 6
Paris-Scheneberg Portrait series 6
Ham-Raleigh Series 7
Goostree-Winchester Series 6 (Hands behind back)
Goostree-Winchester serirs 6 (Leaning on bat)
Rogers-Atlanta Series 8
Gunderson-Goldsboro Series 7
Cooper-Wilson Series 7

Believe IT OR NOT'S
Smith-Lynchburg-(Batting) Series 2
Erlewein-Charleston Series 4
Waymack-Richmond Series 2
Schwietzka-Columbia Series 1
Wysong-Greenville series 5

The Hyames card is a very unique card & the card is very desireable.I would like to add my opinion that I believe more T-210 cards will pop-up from this team.There you have it.This is a breakdown of the cards that gave me the most difficulties,remember these are the cards that I thought I would never find but in time they popped up.The Smith-Lynchburg Batting card was one of the last ones I needed & that card today is quite plentiful. I hope you all find this useful & while I am thinking about it why don't some of you guys post any from these I have listed as I would love to see the little red trinkets that I once owned(Foolishly sold).If anyone would like more info as to other cards they have on their wantlist I would be happy to respond & help you as to the best of my ability.Also want to say good luck completing the set if your going for it as it is not impossible but I will add that when I did it I had no use of the PC but you know what,I had no one to outbid me etc... so with the computer being used it limits ones chances on completing the set.Just my two cents.Hope this helps & enjoy your day.


Want to add that Prim-Raleigh was added to checklist in 1984.

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  #2  
Old 08-15-2007, 03:12 PM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: scott brockelman

I never completed the set, but got to about 550 and had almost all of the ones you listed. As any large set, if you polled the collectors truely trying to complete the set you would get several different answers as to the toughies as these were probably all printed in equal numbers. Over time and attrition of individual players some may seem more difficult to one collector and easy to another.

At any rate thanks for the input, perhaps others will post at to their experience.

Below are the cards I needed when I gave up.

Scott


series 3-billiard, gear, malloy, merritt, mills, pendleton, slaven, thebo.
series 4-carney, geary, kane, moye, o'connor, waldron, zurlage.
series 5-cashion, lave cross, f.b. derrick, jackson, johnston, kelly, mangum, wehrel.
series 6-barnett, beard, callahan, chapman, cornell(winchester), dailey, edington, elgin, ellis, goodman, goosetree(leaning on bat), harold, hicks, kuhlman, mulvain, moloney, ross, scheneberg(fielding),
tinford, yancey.
series 7-biel, brandt, brown, cantwell, carrol, crockett, evans, galvin, handibe, macdonald, malcolm, mayer, merchant, morgan, noval, o'halloran, richardson, sharp, sherrill.
series 8- allen(memphis), bauer, bay, berger, brooks, burnett, carson, cohen, collins, crandall, cross, davis, demaree, e. demontreville, dudley, elliott, farrell, fisher, fleharty, foster, fritz, jackson, kelly, keupper, laftitte, larsen, manuel, marcun, maxwell, mcbride, mclaurin, miller(chatt), miller(mont.), newton, owen, paige, patterson, peters, pratt, rhodes, schlitzer, thomas(portrait), wagner(birm.), wagner(mobile), walker, welf, whitney, wilder, yerkes.

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  #3  
Old 08-15-2007, 03:31 PM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: Ralph

Agree with you Scott but it also depends on the certain era here.What years did you start?If you had Cantwell-Fayetteville then you had one tough card.I made the list just to give some of the collectors on here a chance to see the cards that are indeed more difficult than others.But it depends on the year you started.I am not saying your wrong Scott but I just think that now with the use of the computer these cards are going to give collectors fits.If you collected them back before the PC you would find these cards a bit easier but now it is going to be very challenging for them today.Also was wondering on the T-209 Type II's if you could let me know how many different cards your checklist shows.I have counted 226 I ask this because if you collected the Contentnea B&W cards there may be a card you have or had that never got catalogued. Thanks for your reply.
Regards,
Ralph.

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  #4  
Old 08-15-2007, 04:05 PM
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Posted By: judson hamlin

As someone who has a few 210's but hasn't really dug too far into the sets, what is it about the Hyames card that makes it so tough? Very short print, unique pose, something about the player? Thanks

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  #5  
Old 08-15-2007, 04:13 PM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: Shawn Chambers

I second the above! I would like to see it and especially the coveted Kelly-Mascot. A card (apparently) so fabled and beautiful that not only did it inspire your login...I will probably wander the face of the earth seeking my own upon one glance at it's cardboard splendor!!

Waiting patiently,

Shawn

PS...thanks for all your insights in to your battle with the set. I now have 3 series 6s thanks to Frank Wakefield and Paul Stratton. Hoping to slowly add more and always pulling for Frank to find his two.

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  #6  
Old 08-15-2007, 04:20 PM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: Ralph

The Hyames card from what I have read from other T-210 collectors is a SP card.So with this card being short printed plus the fact that a lot of collectors collect only certain teams because of where they live makes this card a real tough card to locate. Now I would like to pose this question to you T-210 collectors,If there are new T-210 card additions which team do you think these additions will come from?

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  #7  
Old 08-15-2007, 04:24 PM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: Ralph

The Kelly-Mascot card is a card of a small boy no taller than 3 feet in height holding a bat 3 times his size & what makes the card so electrifying is the bat has a glimmer of blonde coloring to the huge bat.I'll keep ya posted if one comes my way

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Old 08-15-2007, 04:31 PM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: barrysloate

When Bill Goodwin offered a big collection a few years ago he pictured the mascot on the website. That was the first time I had ever seen it. I don't know if he keeps an online archive but if so, it's there (wish I could remember the date, but the collection sold for six figures and garnered quite a bit of discussion on the board).

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  #9  
Old 08-15-2007, 04:43 PM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: robert a

Ralph,

Thanks for your informative post and for starting an interesting discussion.

By the way, the only cards I've had in my collection from your list are:

Waymack (2)
Drumm (5)

Robert

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  #10  
Old 08-15-2007, 04:48 PM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: Ralph

That's great as those listed are the more difficult cards so your on a roll,congrats

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  #11  
Old 08-15-2007, 05:26 PM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: Zach Rice

Ralph, thanks for the detailed post and for unveiling some of the true rarities in the T210 set.

As a collector who has only recently changed his focus from strictly the second series, I can’t offer much information on rarities other than those of the second series, and even then, I’d hardly consider any second series cards “rare”. I’m down to needing five-

Eddowes
Jackson-Norfolk
Levy
Powell
Zimmerman


Like I said above, I wouldn’t consider any of these cards “rare”, however, a few cards tough. Both Zimmerman and Levy don’t show nearly as often as the others. Zimmerman is on many T210 collectors’ want lists. Levy is apparently a Jewish athlete, and as a result, his card has multiple audiences chasing it.


Ralph, i'd really enjoy seeing your T209-2 checklist with 226 players. I don't think others would mind it posted in this thread, but if so, you could email it to me or make a new thread about the T209 set.

Zach Rice

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  #12  
Old 08-15-2007, 05:41 PM
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Default T-210 Red Border Break Down

Posted By: Ralph

Yes I can email you the list of T-209 type II's.The Hyames card is nice but that Mascot card I tell ya I would trade a wagner in order to own it once again.Hyames pose on the T-210 shows him getting ready to release the ball as he has it up by his ear.Great action shot.

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  #13  
Old 08-15-2007, 05:55 PM
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Posted By: Jay

Ralph--Nice post. I looked through my dups and had four from your list (scan posted--sorry but I can't reduce it): Robertson(8), Rogers(8), Cooper(7) and Gunderson(7). These are all available for trade (oldjudge@gmail.com). I would also be interested in seeing your list of 226 T209-2s. I was only aware of 222.

Best---Jay

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  #14  
Old 08-15-2007, 06:16 PM
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Posted By: Ralph

Very nice cards.I want to say that the cards I listed were tough for me at that time.Now we are talking 23 years ago so at the time I was collecting these cards there have been more newer finds as I said there will likely be more finds in this set.But I should do a spin-off on the sister set of these cards.Anyone want to take a guess what that set might be by designation? It is very interesting & I remember the stories told to me in letters as to why these cards were actually produced.If anyone can guess I'll do the post but guys I gotta go & eat,LOL. I have been emailing the T-209 B&W C.List & replying but it's worth it

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  #15  
Old 08-15-2007, 07:25 PM
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Posted By: Bill Stone

While focusing primarily on the Series 6 set I started to pick up the Lynchburg team in series 2--I found the following fairly easily :
Beham
Brandon
Eddowes
Gehring
Griffin
Hoffman
Lucia
Michel
Smith -fielding
Sharp
Woolums and
Zimmerman
I continure to try to upgrade my Frankfort team in Series 6.

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  #16  
Old 08-15-2007, 07:28 PM
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Posted By: scott brockelman

I also pursued this bad boy at one time and know of several collectors still working it. Come on and spill the beans

Scott

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  #17  
Old 08-15-2007, 08:25 PM
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Posted By: Ralph

I'm off to the boob tube and wait for the wife to come home. Good Night guys

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Old 08-15-2007, 08:31 PM
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Posted By: paulstratton

Schwietzka


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Old 08-15-2007, 09:56 PM
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Posted By: barry arnold

Ralph,
I appreciate very much the wealth of information that you've brought and offered to the board and the responsive, deferential manner in which you
presented your fine collection.
My small 210 collection is long gone but it was wonderful to remember that
world in the vivid detail with which you presented your collection and the
history of your collecting.
Many, many thanks.
all the best,
Barry

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  #20  
Old 08-16-2007, 05:40 AM
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Posted By: Ralph

Barry thank-you very much for the compliment as I had many different collectors sending me cards all the time.I thought by showing the cards that were tough it would let the collector today see which cards gave me fits.I know the list has changed somewhat but only because of the different era.The only other collector to finish the set his last card was Dwyer so that card I would say is very much limited & if anyone on the boards has either the Merchant,Cantwell cards I would love a scan.What are the chances of that happening,like me winning the Lotto.
Regards,
Ralph.

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  #21  
Old 08-18-2007, 08:48 AM
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

A half dozen of gentlemen from the Blue Grass League of 1910, 7 of the more difficult series 6 Old Mill red border cards, T210, according to Ralph's estimation.

When I acquired Gisler, the price seemed high to me, the seller was certain that his cards were less plentiful. And I believe that. A few folks on the board have Goostree leaning on his bat, and I think that is a very difficult card. I suspect that in the old days some collectors doubted that Van Landingham was available with a Shelbyville designation.

I'm after Angermeier fielding, and Whitaker. I'll play tambourine and dance at your wedding if you can find me either of these cards.



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Old 08-18-2007, 09:23 AM
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Posted By: Bill Stone

Frank--thanks for posting these gems---I still think that the cocky pose of Yeager of Wichester is my favorite of all vintage cards. It just has everything !

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  #23  
Old 08-18-2007, 09:27 AM
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

You're right about that pose...


He looks like he's looking in a bar, sizing up who he's going to whip first. He musta been a Kentucky boy.

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  #24  
Old 08-18-2007, 03:10 PM
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Posted By: Ralph

Frank great cards there & I see that the Whitaker was one I had on my list too along with other series 6 which are tough little buggers.Thanks for the show.Just curious what make is your scanner????
Regards,
Ralph.

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  #25  
Old 08-20-2007, 01:56 PM
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

An old HP 3300C, that I got from my kind little brother.

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Old 08-20-2007, 03:49 PM
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Posted By: Andy Cook

Are all series 3s available in both red and orange borders? Andy

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  #27  
Old 08-20-2007, 06:27 PM
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Posted By: Ralph

No you can't find them all in both colors as they do vary.You may find a few that have both colors but that's another story

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  #28  
Old 08-20-2007, 07:10 PM
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Posted By: scott brockelman

When I sold my near set, I believe I had about 20 orange border dupes of reds, that is a very good percentage of the series. There is no reason to believe all could not be found with orange borders as in all probabilty the entire sheets were produced that way, I also had orange border dupes so several sheets were probably printed with the orange ink, actually probably 100's of sheets, as the reds probably hads 1000's of sheets, as we would expect only 2-3% of them to survive today.

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  #29  
Old 08-20-2007, 09:22 PM
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Andy, I think that was one fine question. And I'm surprised it hasn't been asked before.

Initially, my thinking was that all 3s can be found with red, some with orange. But I have no precise proof of that. And I then thought what we should do is have folks try to post a red and an orange of each. What Scott says makes sense, and I think that if we did start a thread that sought to post one each, orange and red, of all series 3 T210s, we'd eventually get there.

I've sold most of my series 3 cards. I think I've kept one orange and one red. I'll get those out of lock up in a few days and post them, either in a new thread about orange and red series 3 cards, or in one someone starts before me.

Great question! And while we might not be able to post 95 different little orange cards, I think we'll get close.

Frank





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  #30  
Old 08-06-2017, 03:58 PM
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I believe there are only 20 Series 3 cards with orange borders but if anyone knows of any OBs besides these, please let me know.

tbob (trophybob@sbcglobal.net)

Alexander
Billiard
Blanding
Burch
Curry
Firestine
Gordon
Hooks
Johnston
Jones
Kipp
Leidy
Munsell
Nagel
Northern
Slaven
Stringer
Stinson
Thebo
Yantz
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  #31  
Old 08-06-2017, 04:07 PM
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Guaranteed that is the existing list. This by the way is one of my favorite threads of all time. I have read it countless times.

Last edited by Jason; 08-06-2017 at 04:08 PM.
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