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  #1  
Old 08-12-2006, 11:45 AM
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Default T206 Super Set

Posted By: Bill

The gaithering of data for a T206 Super Set has begun. I have received data from 4 other collectors and have started putting the data in my spreadsheet. Would like help from any and all. Just email me the front/back combinations from your collection. If you would like me to email the spreadsheet as it is now, just drop me an email. Lets fill up this spreadsheet. Thanks, Bill

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  #2  
Old 08-12-2006, 12:58 PM
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Posted By: Ed McCollum

Guesing it is an Excel document?

Thanks.

Ed

ed.mccollum@mosaicinfo.org

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  #3  
Old 08-12-2006, 01:24 PM
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Posted By: Steve M.

I couldn't open the file. So that I'm straight on this Super set I don't suspect you need me to let you know that I have a Powers with a Piedmont 150 back. Right? You would want to know if I had a Powers with a Hindu back or a Delehanty with a Carolina Brights back, something like that. Right? Sorry if there has been more on this. I may have just been asleep. Steve

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  #4  
Old 08-14-2006, 11:44 PM
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Posted By: barry arnold

I just looked at the super set in progress and it's absolutely fascinating!
T206 scholars please send Bill Brown data re: your fronts/backs so that
the 'portrait' may become more complete.
Thus far 9 folks have sent their set data in; much more is needed.
Bill has done great work putting collating the research and is eager to
do more, thank goodness.

all the best,

Barry

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  #5  
Old 08-15-2006, 08:14 AM
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Posted By: Bill,

Bill,

Send me your email and I'll attach my set details.

RayB

aja4rayb@msn.com

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  #6  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:28 PM
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Posted By: Scot Reader


I just wanted to encourage everyone on this board to send Bill your T206 front/back combinations so that he can plug them into his T206 Super Set spreadsheet. Bill plugged in my front/back combos today and sent me an updated spreadsheet in about an hour. An amazing response time! Plus, for your troubles Bill will give you a cutting-edge T206 checklist in Excel format.

Bill is doing the heavy lifting on this project by maintaining the spreadsheet and incorporating all of the reported front/back combinations. Please help him out by sending him your lists.

Ted Z., Art M. -- guys like you are absolutely critical to the success of this effort. Please send Bill your front/back T206 holdings when you can.

Thanks.

Scot

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  #7  
Old 08-21-2006, 12:21 PM
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Posted By: drew

Bill

Any updates on the T206 spreadsheet?


Drew

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  #8  
Old 08-21-2006, 12:48 PM
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Posted By: Bill

So far, 14 collected have sent me their data for the Super Set. Looking for many more to respond. Here is the data gaithered for each back:

Piedmont 150 153
Sovereign 150 44
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 25 52
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 30 113
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 649 27

American Beauty 350 Frame 78
American Beauty 350 No Frame 32
Broadleaf 350 20
Cycle 350 34
Drum 10
Piedmont 350 398
Sovereign 350 129
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 25 88
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 30 260

American Beauty 460 16
Broadleaf 460 1
Cycle 460 27
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 25 78
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 42 15
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 25 20
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 30 39
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 17
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 OP 43

Carolina Brights 48
El Principe De Gales 48
Brown Hindu 99
Black Lenox 11
Old Mill 72
Old Mill Southern 47
Polar Bear 137
Tolstoi 49
Uzit 8
Red Hindu 9
Brown Lenox 1

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  #9  
Old 08-21-2006, 12:54 PM
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Posted By: Joann

Just to clarify - are you looking for input from anyone that has T206's? I thought you were looking for some of the more unusual backs and/or combos, so I haven't responded because I didn't think I had anything to add.

If you are looking for input on any and all T206's I'll shoot you an email.

Joann

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  #10  
Old 08-22-2006, 06:38 PM
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Posted By: Bill

Here is the latest totals for the Super Set:

Piedmont 150 153
Sovereign 150 57
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 25 70
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 30 129
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 649 29

American Beauty 350 Frame 90
American Beauty 350 No Frame 32
Broadleaf 350 24
Cycle 350 60
Drum 11
Piedmont 350 419
Sovereign 350 138
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 25 107
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 30 284

American Beauty 460 27
Broadleaf 460 1
Cycle 460 30
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 25 86
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 42 18
Sovereign 460 38
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 25 22
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 30 41
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 19
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 OP 53

Carolina Brights 50
El Principe De Gales 56
Brown Hindu 110
Black Lenox 16
Old Mill 83
Old Mill Southern 48
Polar Bear 160
Tolstoi 54
Uzit 10
Red Hindu 10
Brown Lenox 1

Let keep the data coming. Thanks, Bill

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  #11  
Old 08-23-2006, 07:10 PM
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Posted By: RayB

Bill,

I sent a few of my new additions to your email.

RayB

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  #12  
Old 08-23-2006, 07:25 PM
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Posted By: Rick

so ...how many cards is it up to now?

over 2000?

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  #13  
Old 08-24-2006, 01:38 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Bill

I just emailed you a list of 61 additional T206's that you can add to my
initial Spread Sheet data that I sent you. With these, you should have
a total of 700+ unique T206 back inputs from me.

T-Rex TED

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  #14  
Old 08-24-2006, 04:34 PM
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Posted By: Bill

Currently, I have input everybody that has emailed me (22 collectors) with their data. The total number of front/back combinations stands at 2996 different. Keep the data coming. Thanks, Bill

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  #15  
Old 08-24-2006, 06:13 PM
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Posted By: Rick

damn ...how cool would that be?

3000 cards all lined up ...amazing

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  #16  
Old 08-25-2006, 05:24 PM
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Posted By: Scot Reader


Considering how advanced the collectors are who have contributed data so far I am blown away that only 2 different Broadleaf 460s have surfaced.

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  #17  
Old 08-26-2006, 12:34 AM
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Posted By: Lee Behrens

One thing when this is done there will certainly uncover some secrets about fronts and backs.

Bill, Are you keeping track of the backs for each card received, or just filling in data where it is empty?

I use to keep track of all the backs I had but never wrote down the fronts.

Lee

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  #18  
Old 08-26-2006, 01:15 AM
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Posted By: Zach S.

Bill,

Sent you an email w/ the T206's that I have on hand. It's not much but it'll add to the set. I'll be able to add more when I get back home.

Zach S.
zsmith@as39.navy.mil

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  #19  
Old 08-26-2006, 01:54 AM
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Posted By: barry arnold

Scot, i'm with you about the shock of seeing just one or two
broadleaf 460's,particularly when we compare with the Drum and Uzit
numbers.
I am getting more and more eager to see the SuperSet and
how it adds to and illuminates your research as well as others.

thanks much, Bill.

barry

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  #20  
Old 08-26-2006, 07:10 AM
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Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Guys,
I have documented a lot more than 2 Broadleaf 460's, and even have scans of several dozen. There were 2 on EBAY in the last couple of months, and 3 in a recent auction. I will be happy to provide the info on all the 460's I know of. LMK Brian

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  #21  
Old 08-26-2006, 08:35 AM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Barry A.

How about the 2% representation of EPDG backs in this survey ? That is darn close
to what your EPDG thread indicated. You have to love these Surveys on this Forum.
We should have more of them.

Ted Z

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  #22  
Old 08-26-2006, 10:04 AM
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Posted By: Scot Reader


Ted,
I think the 2% EPDG representation in Bill's survey so far is totally in line with the 1% discussed in Barry's thread when one considers that Bill is not counting duplicates--most of which are surely Piedmont and Sweet Caporal.
Scot

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  #23  
Old 08-26-2006, 10:36 AM
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Posted By: Drew



Hi Guys,
I have documented a lot more than 2 Broadleaf 460's, and even have scans of several dozen. There were 2 on EBAY in the last couple of months, and 3 in a recent auction. I will be happy to provide the info on all the 460's I know of. LMK Brian

Hi Brian
When you get a chance can you please provide the info on the Broadleaf 460's.

Thank You


Drew

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  #24  
Old 08-26-2006, 10:51 AM
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Posted By: Scot Reader

Brian,
I thought you had Latham with Piedmont 460/42 and Jones (St. Louis) with Piedmont 350 and noticed these cards are not on Bill's list. Did you part with them recently?
Scot

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  #25  
Old 08-26-2006, 11:24 AM
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Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Scot,
No I still have both cards. I sent Bill my Piedmont 42's, but haven't had a chance to send him the rest of my piedmont's. Besides, I was going to let Ted put all of his Piedmont's in and fill in the blanks. Be well Brian


PS Bill, send me an updated copy of the sheet and I will help fill in the blanks this weekend with my ungraded cards(including Jones Piedmont 350).

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  #26  
Old 08-26-2006, 11:50 AM
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Posted By: barry arnold

Thanks very much Ted and Scot for pointing out the
EPDG data. these surveys are great fun, particularly when
they corroborate our previous work and provide the potential for new discoveries.

Brian, we're eager to see how you fill in the rest of the survey---and also eager to hear from the rest of the
T206 scholars.


best,

barry

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  #27  
Old 08-26-2006, 07:05 PM
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Posted By: Bill

Here is the latest totals:

Piedmont 150 154
Sovereign 150 74
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 25 88
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 30 136
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 649 30

American Beauty 350 Frame 155
American Beauty 350 No Frame 34
Broadleaf 350 39
Cycle 350 77
Drum 14
Piedmont 350 427
Sovereign 350 171
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 25 146
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 30 332

American Beauty 460 34
Broadleaf 460 4
Cycle 460 35
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 25 95
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 42 27
Sovereign 460 40
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 25 28
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 30 43
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 29
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 OP 71

Carolina Brights 62
El Principe De Gales 80
Brown Hindu 116
Black Lenox 27
Old Mill 114
Old Mill Southern 48
Polar Bear 205
Tolstoi 76
Uzit 16
Red Hindu 20
Brown Lenox 1

We keep talking about how long the total for EPDG is, but look at the total Tolstoi. Keep the data coming. Thanks, Bill

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  #28  
Old 08-26-2006, 11:51 PM
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Posted By: Scot Reader


Bill,

Thanks for the data. It might be more useful to represent the data as follows:

Number found / Number possible

For example, Sweet Cap 460/30 is only possible on the 48 460-only subjects and the six 350/460 superprints, so that could be represented as:

Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30: 43/54

Just a suggestion.

Scot

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  #29  
Old 08-27-2006, 08:59 PM
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Posted By: mike mullins

Hi Bill,

I have sent you an email. Attached is an Excel file with all 192 of my T-206 cards. Hope it helps!

They don't call it "The Monster" for nothing, huh? Someday...

mm

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  #30  
Old 08-28-2006, 11:54 AM
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Posted By: Bill

So far there have been 29 collectors that have given me data for the "Super Set". As I was looking at the spreadsheet, I noticed that there were 10 fronts from the 150/350 series that only had data for the 150 series. Here is the list of 10 cards.

Ames Hands at Chest
Dahlen Boston
Ewing
Ganley
Hinchman Cleveland
Lindaman
Mullin Throwing
Pastorius
Schulte Front View
Wilhelm Hands at Chest

Today, a collector came up with a Wilhelm Hands at Chest (SC 350 back)

Keep the data coming, thanks, Bill

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  #31  
Old 08-28-2006, 01:14 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BILL

In the recent EPDG and 150/350 Survey Threads the following cards showed up
with 350 backs......

Dahlen....Ganley....Hinchman....Lindaman....Mullin ....Pastorius

TED Z

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  #32  
Old 08-28-2006, 02:24 PM
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Posted By: dd

Hey Bill,

Check your email, I just sent T206 data from my collection,,,

regards all,
darren

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  #33  
Old 08-29-2006, 07:12 AM
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Posted By: Martin Neal

Hi Bill,

450 plus front/back combinations in the mail. Thanks for the spreadsheet.
I was thinking that the rarer backs will be represented by a higher percentage in this survey than it's actual percentage in the general population. I think that many members of this board put an emphasis on the rarer backs. I (for the last 5 years) have tried to purchase as many Piedmont 350-460 factory 42s as possible. Maybe I am wrong and it will all even out in the end.

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  #34  
Old 08-29-2006, 09:19 PM
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Posted By: Dave

Bill,

It's great that the list of unique front back combos is over 3000.

How may cards were submitted in total to get this? In other words, how many duplicates are there?

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  #35  
Old 08-30-2006, 12:14 PM
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Posted By: Bill

Dave,

That is a good question, but unfortunately I did not keep track of how many cards each collector submitted to me. The "Super Set" currently stands at 3164 different front/back combinations. If I was to guess, the total number of cards submitted by collectors is around 15,000. Obviously there are a lot of duplicates with the Piedmonts and Sweet Caporal. If the collectors that already submitted to me, email me their total number of T206's I would be glad to add that to the spreadsheet. Still looking for data. You don't have to have a big collection to help the cause. Thanks, Bill

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  #36  
Old 08-30-2006, 12:34 PM
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Posted By: Ed McCollum

Had 170 cards to go through to be able to contribute 36.

Special thanks to Bill for all his work on this project.

Ed

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  #37  
Old 08-30-2006, 06:36 PM
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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Bill

Could you email me your latest up to date Spread Sheet. I'm acquiring more
T206's and I'd like to see if I can provide you some more inputs. However at
the level of inputs that you presently have it will probably be tough.

Ted Z......ccooney@princeton.edu

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  #38  
Old 08-31-2006, 07:45 PM
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Posted By: judson hamlin

Bill, I'm new to the forum- generally preferring to "fly below the radar" but my set is up to 499 cards and I have a broad variety of backs (only 83 Piedmonts), so let me know what you want. I've also (sporadically) kept records of the front/back combos on ebay/auctions/card shows since 1991 or so and would be willing to send some of that info as well.

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  #39  
Old 09-03-2006, 12:39 PM
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Posted By: jackgoodman

Hi Bill,
Was wondering if you'll be providing an update on your totals to date. Thanks for undertaking this project.

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  #40  
Old 09-03-2006, 01:18 PM
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Posted By: Bill

Here are the updated totals:

Piedmont 150 154
Sovereign 150 80
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 25 95
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 30 139
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 649 31

American Beauty 350 Frame 159
American Beauty 350 No Frame 34
Broadleaf 350 42
Cycle 350 81
Drum 14
Piedmont 350 431
Sovereign 350 178
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 25 153
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 30 335

American Beauty 460 40
Broadleaf 460 4
Cycle 460 40
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 25 96
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 42 35
Sovereign 460 43
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 25 32
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 30 47
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 33
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 OP 74

Carolina Brights 64
El Principe De Gales 91
Brown Hindu 118
Black Lenox 27
Old Mill 123
Old Mill Southern 48
Polar Bear 218
Tolstoi 83
Uzit 18
Red Hindu 20
Brown Lenox 1

Keep sending in your data. Thanks, Bill

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  #41  
Old 09-06-2006, 09:50 PM
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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hey Bill, I've finally got my list completed, just over 500 of the little rascals... and sent it via email. Good luck with the tabulations, Frank.

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  #42  
Old 09-07-2006, 10:51 AM
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Posted By: Louis Despres

Bill, please send me your email address and will forward the list I have. Thanks, Louis

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  #43  
Old 09-08-2006, 05:58 PM
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Posted By: Bill

Collectors are still sending in data for the Super Set. Here are the current totals:

Piedmont 150 154
Sovereign 150 93
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 25 100
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 30 140
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 649 32

American Beauty 350 Frame 163
American Beauty 350 No Frame 34
Broadleaf 350 47
Cycle 350 951
Drum 17
Piedmont 350 433
Sovereign 350 188
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 25 170
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 30 338

American Beauty 460 42
Broadleaf 460 5
Cycle 460 44
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 25 97
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 42 37
Sovereign 460 46
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 25 35
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 30 47
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 33
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 OP 75

Carolina Brights 68
El Principe De Gales 107
Brown Hindu 123
Black Lenox 28
Old Mill 139
Old Mill Southern 48
Polar Bear 226
Tolstoi 97
Uzit 198
Red Hindu 20
Brown Lenox 2

TOTAL of 3342. 36 collectors contributing data. Thansk, Bill

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  #44  
Old 09-08-2006, 06:03 PM
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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Bill,
I think you made a mistake on the Uzit number, 198??? Be well Brian

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  #45  
Old 09-08-2006, 06:50 PM
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Posted By: Bill

Brian,

Didn't I tell you I found over 100 Uzit's last week. That should have been 19, instead of 198. Thanks, Bill

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  #46  
Old 09-08-2006, 09:09 PM
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Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Bill,
That's great!!!! Send me a Cobb and I'll be happy. Or a Matty, Or a Johnson, or any old Uzit. Thanks for your efforts Brian


PS Send me an updated list when you have time, and make sure when you send the Uzit it doesn't have a Military front.

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  #47  
Old 09-09-2006, 11:05 AM
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Posted By: Scot Reader

Here are Bill's current totals in relation to theoretical possibilities:

Format: back #found/#possible(theoretical) = %complete

Piedmont 150 154/156 = 98.7%
Sovereign 150 93/153 = 60.7%
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 25 100/155 = 64.5%
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 30 140/154 = 90.9%
Sweet Caporal 150 Fac. 649 32/35 = 91.4%

American Beauty 350 Frame 163/213 = 76.5%
American Beauty 350 No Frame 34/56 = 60.7%
Broadleaf 350 47/214 = 22.0%
Cycle 350 95/214 = 44.4%
Drum 17/214 = 7.9%
Piedmont 350 433/462 = 93.7%
Sovereign 350 188/413 = 45.5%
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 25 170/413 = 41.2%
Sweet Caporal 350 Fac. 30 338/414 = 81.6%

American Beauty 460 42/54 = 77.8%
Broadleaf 460 5/109 = 4.6%
Cycle 460 44/54 = 81.5%
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 25 97/109 = 89.0%
Piedmont 350-460 Fac. 42 37/109 = 33.9%
Sovereign 460 46/54 = 85.2%
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 25 35/109 = 32.1%
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 30 47/54 = 87.0%
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 33/109 = 30.3%
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Fac. 42 OP 75/109 = 68.9%

Carolina Brights 68/214 = 31.8%
El Principe De Gales 107/470 = 22.8%
Brown Hindu 123/190 = 64.7%
Black Lenox 28/109 = 25.7%
Old Mill 139/461 = 30.2%
Old Mill Southern 48/48 = 100%
Polar Bear 226/317 = 71.3%
Tolstoi 97/317 = 30.6%
Uzit 19/109 = 17.4%
Red Hindu 20/109 = 18.3%
Brown Lenox 2/109 = 1.8%

As can be seen there is still a lot of work to do--especially on the tougher backs.

Scot

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  #48  
Old 09-09-2006, 12:18 PM
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Default T206 Super Set

Posted By: Lee Behrens

I think we have a bit of a problem with the Piedmont first theory. Look at almost all the card that have not showed up with a Pied mont 350, they have Sweet Cap backs, many Sweet cap only in 350. Were there actually 2 differrent offices handling the cards and distribution? Were there maybe regional additions?

How far away was the factory for the Piedmaont cards from the Sweet Cap cards?

Lee

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Old 09-09-2006, 12:47 PM
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Default T206 Super Set

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Lee B

1st....They were all printed by Am. Litho Co. in NYC and then distributed to the
various Tobacco Co. in NY, VA, OHIO, NC, etc. to insert in their Cig. packs.

2nd....If you carefully read my current Thread it explains why certain 150/350
T206 cards with P350 backs are tougher to find. Also, if you are not convinced
of my theory regarding Piedmont cards being produced 1st, then at least read
Bill Heitman's comments on prior posts, as he agrees with me on this subject.

T-Rex TED

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Old 09-09-2006, 12:50 PM
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Default T206 Super Set

Posted By: Lee Behrens

Ted, I don't question theory but why all the Sweet cap 350 only's right now?

The more we go through this set the questions that will arise.

Lee

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