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  #21  
Old 11-28-2017, 04:58 PM
MVSNYC MVSNYC is offline
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Jason, Re: Rose, you’re actually not correct.

One of the rules for election consideration on the Hall of Fame’s website is this:

“Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.”

Last edited by MVSNYC; 11-28-2017 at 05:00 PM.
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2017, 05:07 PM
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Dewey Dewey is offline
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Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 View Post
You're either a Hall of Famer or you're not. Plain and simple. Once you're in, you're in for good. There's a reason why there are committees for different eras - the game has changed and evolved over the years. Walter Johnson only through about 80-90 mph, and would most likely get crushed in today's game.
WJ threw faster than that (though maybe not by much). But why would it mean he'd get crushed if your range is right? Greg Maddux didn't get crushed. Neither would "get crushed" in today's game. You make two unsubstantiated assumptions and they are both wrong.
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  #23  
Old 11-28-2017, 06:51 PM
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Walter was timed at 122 feet/ second or 83mph on his fastest pitch according to one source. Another source sites his fastest at 134 feet /sec or 91 mph.
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2017, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVSNYC View Post
Jason, Re: Rose, you’re actually not correct.

One of the rules for election consideration on the Hall of Fame’s website is this:

“Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.”
Those two things are only tied together because of a rule set by the BBHOF. If they wanted, they could eliminate that rule and put Pete on the ballot. So the BBHOF is in control.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2017, 08:55 PM
btcarfagno btcarfagno is offline
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Originally Posted by insidethewrapper View Post
Walter was timed at 122 feet/ second or 83mph on his fastest pitch according to one source. Another source sites his fastest at 134 feet /sec or 91 mph.
I believe that the 91 was calculated at the point where the ball crossed the plate. Which is after they had already lost speed. And I doubt the accuracy of the 83. The 91 at end distance is tantamount to about 96 the way it is measured today.

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  #26  
Old 11-29-2017, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVSNYC View Post
Jason, Re: Rose, you’re actually not correct.

One of the rules for election consideration on the Hall of Fame’s website is this:

“Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.”
This doesn't change the fact that the HOF makes their own rules. They are not controlled by MLB. Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe, etc., could all be made eligible by the Hall by removing this statute, regardless of whether or nt their ban from baseball is upheld. Conversely, MLB could reinstate Rose, and the Hall still decide not to put him on the ballot. They are a totally separate entity.
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  #27  
Old 11-29-2017, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey View Post
WJ threw faster than that (though maybe not by much). But why would it mean he'd get crushed if your range is right? Greg Maddux didn't get crushed. Neither would "get crushed" in today's game. You make two unsubstantiated assumptions and they are both wrong.
It's debatable if he threw faster.

I said he'd probably get crushed, but that's not 100% definitive. I'm just assuming, in the early days of baseball, that the overall skill and technical ability of each individual player wasn't as good as today's players. Maddux probably had much better stuff than Johnson; Johnson was great for his era because the hitters probably weren't as good. Who knows.

Nobody can be wrong without definitive proof that they are.
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2017, 08:44 AM
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Arguments like the speed and effectiveness of Johnson’s fast ball in the modern era are futile. Would the dead ball era have been so dead if Kingman, Deer, Dunn & Judge (trying to avoid the PED crew and that discussion) had been playing then? It’s all speculation.

Dunn, or any of them, might have changed the hitting game before Ruth did and put up big power numbers with far fewer strikeouts, and their T206 cards would be just as valuable as the Cobbs.

If all the current major leaguers had played 111 years earlier, the Hall of Fame we see today would be entirely different. Who knows what names would be on the plaques? Most assuredly any Net54 board member would not know.

My original concept included an inner circle of immortality for this reason, but also required an interval of time to pass before achieving the most elite status.

All of the dead ball superstars would be included in the inner circle. A few of those closer to the “cut” line might drop off the board due to the unpopular concept of deselection.

WaJo was clearly one of the elite pitchers of his era and I would leave it at that, regardless of the speed of his fastball. Period.

By the way, did Babe Ruth have the optimal launch angle?
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  #29  
Old 11-29-2017, 08:47 AM
JasonD08 JasonD08 is offline
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Bad idea.
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2017, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
Arguments like the speed and effectiveness of Johnson’s fast ball in the modern era are futile. Would the dead ball era have been so dead if Kingman, Deer, Dunn & Judge (trying to avoid the PED crew and that discussion) had been playing then? It’s all speculation.

Dunn, or any of them, might have changed the hitting game before Ruth did and put up big power numbers with far fewer strikeouts, and their T206 cards would be just as valuable as the Cobbs.

If all the current major leaguers had played 111 years earlier, the Hall of Fame we see today would be entirely different. Who knows what names would be on the plaques? Most assuredly any Net54 board member would not know.

My original concept included an inner circle of immortality for this reason, but also required an interval of time to pass before achieving the most elite status.

All of the dead ball superstars would be included in the inner circle. A few of those closer to the “cut” line might drop off the board due to the unpopular concept of deselection.

WaJo was clearly one of the elite pitchers of his era and I would leave it at that, regardless of the speed of his fastball. Period.

By the way, did Babe Ruth have the optimal launch angle?
I think you just answered your own question, though. With the argument being futile, then it's impossible to remove players of different eras from the Hall of Fame based on modern day player performance.
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Last edited by KMayUSA6060; 11-29-2017 at 12:42 PM.
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