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  #21  
Old 11-30-2017, 12:20 PM
btcarfagno btcarfagno is offline
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No. Some people, including Bud Selig, advocate electing Marvin Miller to the Baseball Hall of Fame because he "had an impact." I am trying to understand why anyone, particularly a baseball fan, would like to honor an individual whose activities were totally counterproductive to their best interests.

Instead of simply "having an impact," I think the criteria for election should include something like "having a helpful impact," or "having a desireable impact." If having an impact is the only thing that matters, why not elect Tony Bosch from Biogenesis?

Did you enjoy the strike in 1994? As I recall, most of the players did not even know what the goal was. Thanks again, Marvin Miller.

Helpful to whom? Desirable to whom? Who gets to define that one? You?

How about this.

The quality of major league baseball is as amazing as it is solely and completely because of Marvin Miller. If you enjoy watching the best possible players in the world playing baseball then you absolutely have him to thank.

Why?

Because the extreme money in the game draws people who may have done something else with their lives to playing baseball. While people would always play the sport because they wanted to, throughout the history of the game are examples of people leaving to "get a real job" or to play outlaw ball or minor league ball instead of major league ball because the pay was better elsewhere. So it goes to reason that the money in the game draws out the best possible talent.

How's that?

Tom C
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2017, 12:49 PM
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mattsey9 mattsey9 is offline
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Agree with Tom. Miller is a first ballot HOFer in my eyes for his contributions to building the MLBPA and improving the lives and working conditions of baseball's most important resource, its players.
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2017, 01:27 PM
Huysmans Huysmans is offline
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Originally Posted by btcarfagno View Post
Helpful to whom? Desirable to whom? Who gets to define that one? You?

How about this.

The quality of major league baseball is as amazing as it is solely and completely because of Marvin Miller. If you enjoy watching the best possible players in the world playing baseball then you absolutely have him to thank.

Why?

Because the extreme money in the game draws people who may have done something else with their lives to playing baseball. While people would always play the sport because they wanted to, throughout the history of the game are examples of people leaving to "get a real job" or to play outlaw ball or minor league ball instead of major league ball because the pay was better elsewhere. So it goes to reason that the money in the game draws out the best possible talent.

How's that?

Tom C
While I agree with most things you write on the forum, with all due respect, I think you're wrong on this one Tom... for starters, can you name ONE player who chose another career because baseball didn't pay enough? ONE?

Fifty years ago in 1967, the year before Marvin Miller became executive director of the Major League Baseball Players Assn. the AVERAGE salary in baseball was $19,000.00 - which equates to roughly $139,428.81 in 2017 dollars - while the MINIMUM salary was $6000.00 - which equates to roughly $44,030.15 in 2017 dollars. Baseball salaries in the past 50 years have increased 20,000%... but that's not ridiculous?

So are we really to assume that pre-Miller players would sooner take a year-round job not playing the sport they love because almost $50,000 wasn't enough to live on a year? And that was just the MINIMUM, not the AVERAGE. I'm sorry, but pro athletes have ALWAYS been paid well and have made more than the average worker/citizen, while it's true it's only within the modern era that we see considerably inflated sums.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/mlb/la...329-story.html

https://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm
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  #24  
Old 11-30-2017, 01:43 PM
btcarfagno btcarfagno is offline
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Originally Posted by Huysmans View Post
While I agree with most things you write on the forum, with all due respect, I think you're wrong on this one Tom... for starters, can you name ONE player who chose another career because baseball didn't pay enough? ONE?

Fifty years ago in 1967, the year before Marvin Miller became executive director of the Major League Baseball Players Assn. the AVERAGE salary in baseball was $19,000.00 - which equates to roughly $139,428.81 in 2017 dollars - while the MINIMUM salary was $6000.00 - which equates to roughly $44,030.15 in 2017 dollars. Baseball salaries in the past 50 years have increased 20,000%... but that's not ridiculous?

So are we really to assume that pre-Miller players would sooner take a year-round job not playing the sport they love because almost $50,000 wasn't enough to live on a year? And that was just the MINIMUM, not the AVERAGE. I'm sorry, but pro athletes have ALWAYS been paid well and have made more than the average worker/citizen, while it's true it's only within the modern era that we see considerably inflated sums.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/mlb/la...329-story.html

https://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

Bill Lange? There are others certainly. That one off the top of my head.
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:05 PM
packs packs is offline
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I highly doubt anyone plays baseball because of the money you can make. You're either a baseball player or you aren't. People play professional lacrosse because that's what they are, lacrosse players. You can't convince me your average lacrosse player isn't playing any other sport because of money when the guy's already not making any. He just loves lacrosse.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:13 PM
Huysmans Huysmans is offline
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Originally Posted by btcarfagno View Post
Bill Lange? There are others certainly. That one off the top of my head.
According to the SABR website....

"Then at the close of the 1899 season, Lange abandoned it all, quitting the game in order to take a bride whose well-heeled father would not countenance a baseball player for a son-in-law. Sadly, the marriage did not last, but Lange’s departure from the diamond did. He never returned to uniform, having played his final game at the age of 28."

Lange later went on to numerous baseball jobs after hanging up his cleats as a player including spring-training outfield instructor for the Chicago White Sox and European talent scout for Ban Johnson and John McGraw. This hardly sounds like a man disgruntled from the sport by his income.

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/6a073842
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:24 PM
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trdcrdkid trdcrdkid is offline
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Originally Posted by btcarfagno View Post
Bill Lange? There are others certainly. That one off the top of my head.
Mike Donlin took three entire years off from playing for the Giants at the height of his career (1907, 1909, 1910) to perform in vaudeville and on Broadway with his wife Mabel Hite, because it paid more than baseball.
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:28 PM
packs packs is offline
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Mike Donlin took three entire years off from playing for the Giants at the height of his career (1907, 1909, 1910) to perform in vaudeville and on Broadway with his wife Mabel Hite, because it paid more than baseball.
Donlin was always known to be a huge Broadway fan. Can you point to anything that supports it was purely for financial reasons? After his wife died he went right back to playing baseball.
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:36 PM
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trdcrdkid trdcrdkid is offline
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Originally Posted by packs View Post
Donlin was always known to be a huge Broadway fan. Can you point to anything that supports it was purely for financial reasons? After his wife died he went right back to playing baseball.
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/3b51e847

"In the spring of 1907 he demanded the same $3,300 he had been paid in 1906, plus a $600 bonus if he stayed sober all year. Owner John Brush declined. Mike held out and eventually went on the vaudeville circuit with his wife, missing the entire season. With characteristic confidence, he proclaimed: "I can act. I'll break the hearts of all the gals in the country." Critics generally disagreed. One said that Donlin "never was the actor he thought he was or wanted to be.""

"On October 26, 1908, Hite and Donlin's one-act play, Stealing Home, opened at the Hammerstein Theater in New York. Though the play was acclaimed, reviews for the ballplayer-turned-actor were mixed. Variety raved: "Mike Donlin as a polite comedian is quite the most delightful vaudeville surprise you ever enjoyed." But another critic wrote, "Hite was so good she could carry him." For the next three winters the pair performed Stealing Home in front of sold-out houses from Boston to San Francisco. Donlin vowed never to return to baseball because he was making more money in show business."
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  #30  
Old 11-30-2017, 02:46 PM
Huysmans Huysmans is offline
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Originally Posted by trdcrdkid View Post
Mike Donlin took three entire years off from playing for the Giants at the height of his career (1907, 1909, 1910) to perform in vaudeville and on Broadway with his wife Mabel Hite, because it paid more than baseball.
Considering the argument is that an overwhelming plethora of players have left baseball or pursued other careers due to a lack of compensation...

yet Turkey and Lange - players from a past century - are the only examples?
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