NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post. Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #351  
Old 02-24-2018, 09:49 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyWonder089 View Post
Apologies if this is not the correct thread for this question, but I didn't want to start a new thread for what is probably a basic question.

My monster number is 1, so my T206 knowledge is very limited. I recently picked up a Bill Clymer in rough shape. I just happened to notice that there appears to be extra bright red spots on his face and hands. I have heard of missing red ink, but never extra red ink? Does anybody have an explanation as to what might cause this discoloration? Does it change any thing from a value standpoint?

Apologies for the photo, I am currently unable to take a decent scan.

Hi

The "redness" that appears on Clymer's cheeks, lips, and left hand varies from card to card. On some Clymer cards it is very faint, while others (like yours) it is more intense.

Good luck on collecting the T206's.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #352  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:03 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts.

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1)

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited)

Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 03-13-2018 at 08:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #353  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:05 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





522 of the 524 subjects** which comprise a complete T206 set were printed with PIEDMONT backs. The PIEDMONT brand
dominates the T206 population to the tune of 52 - 55%. The following is a complete list of the PIEDMONT cards with respect
to the Series they were printed in.

The SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 sub-set ranks 2nd in this category....as it consists of 469 subjects printed with this back.


PIEDMONT 150

150 Series..................156 subjects


Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Alperman
Ames (hands at chest)
Ames (portrait)
Ball (New York)
Bates
Beaumont
Bell (hands over head)
Bender (portrait)
Bergen (bat)
Birmingham
Bowerman
Bradley (portrait)
Bransfield
Bresnahan (portrait)
Bridwell (portrait-no cap)
M. Brown (Cubs)
M. Brown (portrait)
G. Brown (Chicago Nat'l)
Burch (batting)

Camnitz (arms folded)
Chance (red portrait)
Chase (pink portrait)
Chase (white cap)
Chesbro
Cicotte
Clarke (portrait)
Clarke (bat)
JJ Clarke
Cobb (green)
Cobb (bat on shoulder)
Conroy (fielding)
Coveleski
Crandall (no cap)
Crawford (throwing)
Criger
Criss
Dahlen (Boston Nat'l)
George Davis (Chicago)
Harry Davis (A's)

Delehanty (Washington)
Devlin
Donlin (fielding)
Donlin (seated)
Donohue
Donovan (portrait)
Dooin
Doolin
Dougherty (portrait)
L. Doyle (throwing)
Durham
Elberfeld (New York)
Evers (bat-blue sky)
Evers (portrait)
Ewing
Ferris
Flick
Ganley
Gibson
Gilbert

Goode
Griffith (portrait)
Hahn
Hemphill
Herzog (New York)
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Isbell
Jacklitsch
Jennings (portrait)
Johnson (portrait)
F. Jones (portrait)
F. Jones (hands at hips)
Tom Jones
Jordan (portrait)
Joss (portrait)
Karger
Keeler (portrait)
Keeler (bat)
Killian (pitching)
Kleinow (bat)

Kling
Konetchy (glove high)
Lajoie (portrait)
Lajoie (throwing)
Lake (New York)
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)
Liebhardt
Lindaman
Lobert
Lumley
Lundgren (Cubs)
Magie (portrait)....[ERROR]
Magee (portrait)
Manning (bat)
Marquard (hands at side)
Mathewson (portrait)
Mathewson (white cap)
McGraw (portrait-no cap)
McGraw (pointing)

McIntyre (Brooklyn)
McQuillan (ball in hand)
Merkle (portrait)
Mullin (throwing)
Murphy (throwing)
Nicholls (hands on knees)
Niles
Oldring (fielding)
O'Leary (portrait)
Overall (portrait)
Owen
Parent
Pastorius
Pattee
Pelty (horizontal)
Plank
Powell
Powers
Reulbach (glove)
Ritchey

Rucker (portrait)
Schaefer (Detroit)
Schlei (catching)
Schmidt (throwing)
Schulte (front view)
Seymour (batting)
Shaw (St Louis Nat'L)
Sheckard (no glove)
Shipke
F. Smith (Chicago)
Spade
Spencer
Stahl (no glove)
Steinfeldt (portrait)
Stone
Stovall (portrait)
Sullivan
L. Tannehill (Chicago)
Tenney
Tinker (portrait)

Tinker (hands on knees)
Turner
Waddell (portrait)
Waddell (throwing)
Honus Wagner
Wagner (bat on left)
Wallace
Walsh
Weimer
Doc White (portrait)
Wilhelm (hands at chest)
Williams
Willis (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-no cap)
CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)



** Note......The Demmitt and O'Hara (St Louis variations) were printed only with POLAR BEAR backs.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 03-12-2018 at 09:22 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #354  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:06 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

PIEDMONT 350


350-only Series..................Major League subjects = 123

Abstein
Arellanes
Atz
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Beck
Becker
Bender (trees)
Bescher (portrait)
Bliss
Bresnahan (bat)
G. Brown (Washington)
Burns
Bush
Byrne
Campbell
Carrigan
Charles
Collins (A's)
Cree

Dahlen (Brooklyn)
Demmitt (New York)
Dineen
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Downey (fielding)
Joe Doyle (NY Nat'L)......[ERROR]
Joe Doyle (New York)
Dubuc
Dunn (Brooklyn)
Dygert
Easterly
Egan
Elberfeld (portrait-Washington)
Engle
Evans
Ferguson
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Fletcher

Fromme
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Gray
Groom
Hartsel
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (St Louis)
Hofman
Howard (Chicago)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hulswitt
Hunter
Jones (Detroit)
Killian (portrait)
Kleinow (catching--New York)
Knabe

Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
Laporte
Lennox
Livingstone
Lord
Maddox
Marquard (portrait)
Marshall
Mattern
McAleese
McBride
McCormick
Mc Elveen
McIntyre (Detroit)
McLean
Milan

Miller (Pittsburg)
Mitchell (Cinci)
Moran (Chicago)
Moriarty
Mowery
Mullen (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Myers (fielding)
Nicholls (bat)
Oakes
O'Hara (New York)
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelps
Phillippe
Purtell
Quinn
Raymond

Rhoades (arm extended)
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Rhodes
Rossman
Schmidt (portrait)
Scott
F. Smith (Chicago--white cap)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Stephens
Street (portrait)
Summers
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Thomas
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop

Willett
Wilson
Zimmerman



350-only Series..................Minor League subjects = 86

Abbott
Adkins
Anderson
Armbruster
Arndt
Barger
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch
Beckley
Blackburne
Brain
Brashear
Burchell
Burke
Butler
Carr
Casey
Cassidy
Chappelle
Clark

Clancy
Clymer
Collins (Minneapolis)
Congalton
Cravath
Cross
Davidson
Delehanty
Dessau
Dorner
Downs
Dunn (Baltimore)
Flanagan
Freeman
Ganzel
Grimshaw
Hall
Hallman
Hannifan
Hayden

Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoffman (Providence)
Jackson
Kelley
Kisinger
Kruger
Lattimore
Lavender
Lennox
Lundgren (KC)
Malarkey
Maloney
McGann
McGinley
McGinnity
McGlynn
Milligan
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Providence)

Nattress
Oberlin
O'Brien
O'Neill
Phelan
Pickering
Poland
Puttman
Quillen
Randall
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schlafly
Schreck
Shannon
Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle
Smith (Buffalo)

Strang
Taylor
Thielmann
White (Buffalo)
Wright
Irv Young



Southern League Series..................48 subjects

Bastian
Bay
Bernhard
Breitenstein
Carey
Coles
Cranston
Ellam
Foster
Fritz
Greminger
Guiheen
Hart (Little Rock)
Hart (Montgomery)
Helm
Hickman
Hooker
Howard (Savannah)
Jordan (Atlanta)
Kiernan

King
Lafitte
Lentz
Lipe
Manion
McCauley
Miller
Molesworth
Mullaney
Orth
Otey
Paige
Perdue
Persons
Reagan
Revelle
Rockenfeld
Ryan
Seitz
Shaughnessy

Sid Smith (Atlanta)
Smith (Shreveport)
Stark
Thebo
Thornton
Violat
Westlake
White (Houston)



Information on the PIEDMONT 350/460 series and the 460-only series will follow.



TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 03-13-2018 at 10:41 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #355  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:37 PM
Rich Falvo Rich Falvo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: RI
Posts: 311
Default

Ted - I think the 350-only minor league list needs Moran (Providence) in place of Maddox.

Thanks for putting together these lists. Great information.
__________________
Looking for most Cycle, EPDG, American Beauty or Tolstoi backs for Providence players.

Successful transactions with Luke, frankbmd, Dougscats, Baseball*Collectibles, Thromdog, Lug-nut, Ronnie73, cammb
Reply With Quote
  #356  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:24 AM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *



A sample of 6 subjects from the 350/460 series


Initially, these 63 subjects were printed with PIEDMONT 350 backs. Circa Fall 1910, American Lithographic continued printing these guys with 460 series backs (AB 460,
BL 460, CY 460, LENOX, UZIT, red HINDU, PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42, etc.)
Illustrated here is my concept of the 72-card sheet depicting 66 subjects (including the 6 super-prints). The arrangement of these cards is arbitrary, however it is valid,
as it is based on the fact that all of these cards were printed with the "apple green" SOVEREIGN 350 backs.
Three of these guys (Joe Doyle, Simon Nicholls, Bob Rhoades) were not continued into the 460 series, since their Major League careers had ended.


v.................................... Six super-prints ....................................v









PIEDMONT 350-460


350/460 Series..................63 subjects


Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)

Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 03-15-2018 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #357  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:26 AM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

350/460 series backs


A picture is worth 1000 words......so, here are the 22 tobacco advertisement backs that are available on the T206 Subjects in the 350/460 Series......


460-type backs




. .

............. Factory #42 .............



350-type backs




Assorted backs






Stay tuned for the PIEDMONT 460-only Series info


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #358  
Old 03-13-2018, 08:29 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys...PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

460-only series

The 460-only T206 cards were issued in late 1910 thru early 1911. American Lithographic documents appear to place the last T206 press runs in Feb - Mar 1911.
The AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, UZIT, red HINDU, LENOX, and PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 cards were printed in the final press runs of T206's.

Two print runs make up the 460-only series. The 1st group includes the 12 subjects which I refer to as the "Exclusive 12". These 12 guys were printed separately
on their own sheet. I base this hypothesis on several factors. Foremost being that these 12 subjects are the only ones in the 460-only series of 46 subjects found
with the red HINDU backs.

The 2nd group lists the other 34 subjects in this series.


PIEDMONT 460


460-only Series..................46 subjects


Group 1 (Exclusive 12)

Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummel
McGraw (glove at hip)
Pfeffer
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat


Group 2

Abbaticcio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (pitching)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (arms above)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arms at side)
Camnitz (arms over head)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Doyle (portrait)
Frill
Herzog (Boston Nat'l)
Howell (hands at waist)
Lake (with ball)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)

Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Seymour (portrait)
H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)



Illustrated here is my concept of an Exclusive 12 printed sheet....based on American Lithographic's 19-inch wide press.
And a standard size 19" x 24" cardboard sheet.

.. v ............................................ 19" x 24" sheet .............................................v




TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #359  
Old 03-14-2018, 08:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Falvo View Post
Ted - I think the 350-only minor league list needs Moran (Providence) in place of Maddox.

Thanks for putting together these lists. Great information.

Hi Rich
Thanks for catching the Moran omission.
Haste makes waste when doing lots of "cut-n-paste"

And, thanks for the kind words.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #360  
Old 04-05-2018, 06:59 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206

This T206 trivia quiz, I think may be somewhat tougher than the previous ones on this thread. Unless one of you Net54 T206 geniuses are already aware of it.


There is one (and only one) T206 subject in the set that was not printed with a period after it's team letter Y in it's caption.

Can you identify this T206 subject (and it's pose) ?

First correct answer wins a T206 card.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #361  
Old 04-05-2018, 07:24 PM
njdunkin1 njdunkin1 is offline
NJ Dunkin
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Eagle River, WI
Posts: 721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post

Can you identify this T206 subject (and it's pose) ?




TED Z
.
Mr. Ted,

Great question--is it Wiltse (pitching)?

I looked through some cards and initially thought it was a trick question--Crandall (cap) has "New York" spelled out, but then I noticed that Devore, Ford, and McGraw (G@H) all have this.

Last edited by njdunkin1; 04-05-2018 at 07:36 PM. Reason: changed pose name to clarify
Reply With Quote
  #362  
Old 04-05-2018, 07:43 PM
mybuddyinc's Avatar
mybuddyinc mybuddyinc is offline
S Gross
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,578
Default

Hooks Wiltse (Pitching)




Of course he was at the end of going through entire set .....


wiltse.jpg

Last edited by mybuddyinc; 04-05-2018 at 07:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #363  
Old 04-05-2018, 07:52 PM
mybuddyinc's Avatar
mybuddyinc mybuddyinc is offline
S Gross
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,578
Default

Looks like NJ's edit beat my initial response ...........

............. way to go NJ !!!! .............
Reply With Quote
  #364  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:25 PM
Sean's Avatar
Sean Sean is offline
Sean Costello
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Woodland, California
Posts: 3,610
Default

Nice going N.J. and Scott. I couldn't find anyone missing the period.
Reply With Quote
  #365  
Old 04-05-2018, 08:35 PM
HobokenJon HobokenJon is offline
Jon.than We.il
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 88
Default One and only one?

Now wait a second, before we declare any winners . . . What about all of the players for Jersey City, Kansas City and Montgomery? Their team names end in Y. The team names on their cards are in all capital letters. There’s no period after the Y at the end of their team names. The question didn’t say the team had to be New York or be abbreviated. What do you say, Ted? Do I win? :-)
Reply With Quote
  #366  
Old 04-05-2018, 10:06 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206

NJ Dunkin is the winner of this quiz and the T206 card.


Email me NJ....and we'll talk about the T206 card that I'm going to send you..... tedzan11@comcast.net


.



Quote:
Originally Posted by njdunkin1 View Post
Mr. Ted,

Great question--is it Wiltse (pitching)?

I looked through some cards and initially thought it was a trick question--Crandall (cap) has "New York" spelled out, but then I noticed that Devore, Ford, and McGraw (G@H) all have this.



TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #367  
Old 04-10-2018, 07:45 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED

.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts.

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1)

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited)

Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 04-16-2018 at 11:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #368  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:09 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 Reference....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

* * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * *





It's interesting to look back on what our thinking was regarding the Wagner, Plank, Magie, and Joe Doyle Nat'L cards 12+ years ago.

Check-out this Net54 thread (Oct 8, 2005)...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=78693

It is early Net54 threads (such as this one) that "sparked" our imagination and research which have resulted in developing a keen
understanding of the complexities of the T206 "Monster".

Any one here want to reminisce some more about this subject......feel free to chime in.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #369  
Old 04-17-2018, 06:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206

This quiz involves 2 ballplayers which were not featured in the T206 set.

Although, they should have been in this set.

Can you identify these 2 guys ? And, explain the strange situation why they were traded for each other ? ?


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 04-17-2018 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #370  
Old 04-17-2018, 07:43 PM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,699
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
This quiz involves 2 ballplayers which were not featured in the T206 set.

Although, they should have been in this set.

Can you identify these 2 guys ? And, explain the strange situation why they were traded for each other ? ?


TED Z
.
Bris Lord and Joe Jackson?
Reply With Quote
  #371  
Old 04-17-2018, 08:30 PM
nat's Avatar
nat nat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 581
Default

Just looked up that deal. Who would have thought that Joe Jackson would be a player to be named later?
Reply With Quote
  #372  
Old 04-17-2018, 11:26 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE, Reflections, Theorys....new TRIVIA QUIZ..1st correct answer wins T206

Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Bris Lord and Joe Jackson?

You correctly guessed the 2 ballplayers that were involved in one of the most bizarre trades in BB history.

Email me and we'll talk about the T206 card which I will send you..... tedzan11@comcast.net




.



Bristol Lord traded (July 23, 1910) by the Cleveland Naps to the Philadelphia A's for a player to be named later. July 30, 1910, the Philadelphia A's
sent Shoeless Joe Jackson to the Cleveland Naps to complete the trade.


Connie Mack was a great Manager with a keen talent for recruiting some great ballplayers (especially from the College ranks) for 50 years.
However, Connie Mack certainly did not give Shoeless Joe a chance to show his extraordinary hitting ability with the A's.





TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 04-18-2018 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #373  
Old 04-18-2018, 09:02 AM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default Connie Mack

. .



Connie Mack believed that ballplayers in College received better training **......than the ones in the Minor League Farm system.
Connie had a keen sense of talent, and he (and his brother) would scout out young recruits from College campuses.
Here is a list of the A's in the T206 set who started on College teams......


Jack Barry (Holy Cross)
Chief Bender (Dickinson)
Eddie Collins (Columbia)
Harry Davis (Girard College)
Harry Krause (St Mary's College)
Simon Nicholls (Maryland)
Eddie Plank (Gettysburg College)
Doc Powers (Holy Cross)

and, missing from the T206 set
Andy Coakley (Holy Cross)
Jack Coombs (Colby College)......(1910 W-L = 31-9, ERA = 1.30)



** Note....Connie Mack (the Early Years of Baseball), Norman Macht

Hey guys....I highly recommend this book.
While reading it, you'll imagine the guys in your T206 set come alive. Almost every player from that era is covered in this book.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 04-24-2018 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #374  
Old 04-18-2018, 11:35 AM
slipk1068's Avatar
slipk1068 slipk1068 is offline
Dav1d Sh1p$ey
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 811
Default

I read somewhere that Connie Mack knew exactly what he had in Joe Jackson. He basically gave him away as a gift to Charles Somers, owner of the Cleveland Naps.

Without Somers support, the American League would have folded in its early years. Around 1910, Somers was struggling financially, so Connie Mack sent him Joe Jackson as a gift. There should probably be a Charles Somers monument in every American League ballpark

I don't remember where I read this, but I believe it was Connie Mack's own words. Maybe someone else can confirm this?
Reply With Quote
  #375  
Old 04-18-2018, 02:55 PM
Sean's Avatar
Sean Sean is offline
Sean Costello
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Woodland, California
Posts: 3,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipk1068 View Post

Without Somers support, the American League would have folded in its early years. Around 1910, Somers was struggling financially, so Connie Mack sent him Joe Jackson as a gift. There should probably be a Charles Somers monument in every American League ballpark
If this is true there should be a Connie Mack statue in every American Ballpark. Except perhaps Chicago, where Joe Jackson's tenure didn't end well.

Still, if they could keep Comiskey's name on the ballpark for 80 more years, perhaps they've forgiven Jackson as well.
Reply With Quote
  #376  
Old 04-18-2018, 08:22 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipk1068 View Post
I read somewhere that Connie Mack knew exactly what he had in Joe Jackson. He basically gave him away as a gift to Charles Somers, owner of the Cleveland Naps.

Without Somers support, the American League would have folded in its early years. Around 1910, Somers was struggling financially, so Connie Mack sent him Joe Jackson as a gift. There should probably be a Charles Somers monument in every American League ballpark

I don't remember where I read this, but I believe it was Connie Mack's own words. Maybe someone else can confirm this?

David
With all due respect to you, I cannot buy this bit regarding the American League folding. In the first decade of the 20th Century, the American League under the command
of Ban Johnson outdrew the National League in attendance by wide margins.
For example, check out these headlines of Opening Day at Shibe Park (April 12 1909) in Philadelphia..........................





Shoeless Joe Jackson's performance with Greenville (.346) in 1908, and Savannah (.358) in 1909 impressed Connie Mack. However, Joe Jax just couldn't "hack" it playing
with the College bred guys on the A's. In part, because some of them were not too kind to this "rebel rookie" who they considered "illiterate".
Believe it or not....some were still "fighting the Civil War in the beginning of the 20th Century. You can check-out this fact....during the T206 era there were very few Major
Leaguers that hailed from the "Deep South" (SC, GA, ALA, Miss). Of course, Ty Cobb was one, and therein lies a lot of his problems.

Connie Mack saw a chance to recover Bristol Lord from the Cleveland Naps, so he traded away Joe Jax. Very quickly, Joe's Cleveland teammates took a liking to him and his
performance reflected this as he batted .408 in 1911.

That's the story, as I understand it.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #377  
Old 04-20-2018, 06:00 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default INDEX to this T206 Reference thread's posts and story's....UPDATED

.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Post #1......Introduction....starting with Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

Plus, an early and very significant T206 thread was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
Lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's in this thread exploring various aspects of the T206 series (including surveys). Resulting in 363 meaningful posts.

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1)

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131..Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 234.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #242 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Post #262.....T206 Southern League cards (re-visited)

Posts #263 >> 270.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #271 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Posts #369 >> 376.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-19-2018 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Updated INDEX.
Reply With Quote
  #378  
Old 05-16-2018, 07:52 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default Jantz Morey

Thanks to Net54, I first met Jantz Morey at the 2008 National. And, I looked forward to each subsequent National to get together with him.
We became instant friends, talking T206 cards and trading them. Our conversation started by Jantz bringing up the subject of my "Elite 11"
thread (posted in the Fall of 2007). He was fascinated by these rare PIEDMONT 350 cards. He was happy to show me 8 of these cards that
he had acquired in less than a year. Plus he had two duplicates (Lindaman and Mullin).

I mentioned to him that I was missing Mullin with the PIEDMONT 350 back. He gave me his extra Mullin and did not want anything in return.
That's the kind of guy Jantz was.
Subsequently, I returned the favor by sending him POLAR BEAR cards for his T206 run.

At the National's, we would talk T206's for what seemed like hours. Jantz really impressed me with his keen insight into the complexities of
the T206 set. We would delve into the nitty-gritty details of this set. Also, Jantz loved finding printing anomalies in T206's. He would contact
me when he found one, so we could compare notes. Here's an example where he noticed that occasionally a Mullin card would be found with
a printer's mark above the arm. Between the two of us, we found 8 of these cards with this identical printer's mark.

.............................................v






There is so much more that I could write about regarding our 11 year old friendship. I still cannot believe Jantz is not with us anymore.


GOD Bless his soul....and, may GOD comfort his family.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #379  
Old 05-21-2018, 07:09 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theorys...New TRIVIA Quiz, 1st correct answer wins T206

Approx. 12 weeks before a tragic event in BB....there was an occurrence in Griffith Stadium which eerily portends this tragic event.

#1....What "tragic event" am I referring to ?

#2....can you describe this occurrence in Washington ?


Note......
I changed the time between these 2 events, and corrected the Stadium where the 1st event occurred. The story remains the same.
So, give this another try. Please excuse my error due to my hasty posting.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-22-2018 at 08:12 PM. Reason: Corrected info.
Reply With Quote
  #380  
Old 05-21-2018, 07:23 PM
Noy Noy is offline
member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 29
Default

I assume the tragic event in question was Carl Mays hitting and killing Ray Chapman with a pitch, but I have no idea what the foreshadowing event might have been. Interested in finding out.
Reply With Quote
  #381  
Old 05-21-2018, 08:46 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noy View Post
I assume the tragic event in question was Carl Mays hitting and killing Ray Chapman with a pitch, but I have no idea what the foreshadowing event might have been. Interested in finding out.
Noy

Your answer for the 1st question is correct....Ray Chapman died Aug 17, 1920 after having been struck by a ball pitched by Carl Mays the previous day.

Stay tuned for the story regarding the 2nd question. You'll find it very interesting.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-22-2018 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #382  
Old 05-22-2018, 07:21 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theorys...New TRIVIA Quiz, 1st correct answer wins T206

Well, is this quiz that tough......or is there just no interest in this topic ? ?

Come on, some of you guys on this forum are pretty damn smart, so I'm puzzled that no one has offered an answer here.

Noy has got us off to a good start with Ray Chapman. I'll give you guys 2 more hours to figure out the answer.


Trust me, you will find the final answer quite thought-provoking.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-23-2018 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #383  
Old 05-22-2018, 07:54 PM
t206kid t206kid is offline
Jay Kaplan
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 477
Default

Did a player get struck by lightning during a game? I vaguely recall that happened around the time Chapman passed away
Reply With Quote
  #384  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:22 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default

Hi Jay

That may have happened, but it's not the answer to this quiz.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #385  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE...Reflections, Theorys...New TRIVIA Quiz, 1st correct answer wins T206

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post

Approx. 12 weeks before a tragic event in BB....there was an occurrence in Griffith Stadium which eerily portends this tragic event.

QUIZ

#1....What "tragic event" am I referring to ?

#2....can you describe this occurrence in Washington ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

On May 26, 1920 Ray Chapman was at bat vs Walter Johnson (who was pitching in relief) in the late innings. The fog started rolling into Griffith Stadium.
Chapman, who usually crowded the plate, had two quick strikes against him. At that point he stepped out of the batter's box and told the Umpire that he
cannot see the ball. He refused to face another pitch from Walter Johnson for fear of his life. The Umpire insisted he get back in the batters box.

Then Walter Johnson approached the Umpire, handed him the ball, and told him he was done pitching.

Now, I ask you....is this occurrence some sort of strange omen....or what ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #386  
Old 05-24-2018, 08:40 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *







This topic has intrigued me ever since I started collecting T206's in 1981. My following theories regarding this subject is based on my experience collecting uncut sheets
of Goudey's, Play Ball's, Leaf's, Bowman's, & Topps cards. Also, I have written articles on uncut sheets in The Baseball Cards Magazine, SCD, VCBC, and Old Cardboard.

So, I will start with American Lithographic's (ALC) original printing of the T206 cards (circa Spring/Summer 1909). ALC operated large printing presses for Artwork and
Advertising Banners. My research indicates that ALC used 19" inch track presses to print the T206 cards. These same size presses were used to print the T205's, T213's,
T214's, t215's, etc. cards

OK, let's start with the structure of the T206 set. The very first press run comprises of 12 subjects (which includes the famous Wagner card). It's the group of T206's we
refer to as the 150-only Series.

150-only Series
....
l<.................................................. ...................... 19" inch wide sheet .................................................. .........................>l


Furthermore, there are 144 additional subjects that comprise the 150 Series. And, 144 is certainly a factor of 12.



A standard size sheet of cardboard in that era was 19" inch wide by 25" inches long. As many as 108 cards could be printed on this size sheet.

For example, shown here is my concept of a printed sheet of the Exclusive 12 cards in the 460-only Series. It's been proven that this group of 12 subjects in this series
of T206's was printed separately from the other subjects in the 460-only series.


.. v ............................................ 19" x 25" sheet .............................................v





Stay tuned for more specific info regarding how the "12 factor" figures into the printing of the various series in the T206 set. The Southern League series
and the 350 Series will follow in the next post.



TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-25-2018 at 01:42 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #387  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:55 AM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *






Southern Leaguer series

Originally, during the 150 series press runs, 34 - Southern Leaguers were printed. These 34 cards were issued with Brown HINDU backs. Then, ALC added 14 more
Southern Leaguers. All 48 of these cards were printed in a 12 across x 4 row format. These were issued 1st with OLD MILL backs, followed by PIEDMONT 350 backs.


350 Series

The 1910 COUPON set provides us an insight into the printing of T206's early in this series. Shown here is my simulated sheet of the 48 - Major Leaguers in the
1910 COUPON set. This sheet of 48 cards represents an early (circa Spring 1910) regular press run of T206 cards. ALC also used this T206 sheet to produce the
1910 COUPON cards.








Stay tuned regarding how the "12 factor" figures into the printing of the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (No Frame) series, and the 460-only series in the next post.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #388  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:55 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) series

"The AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) subjects were printed on a 36-card sheet."

I posted this statement on Net54 quite a number of years ago. I was instantly questioned by another Net54 member who said there are 37 subjects in this series.
I replied....Very true. However, when ALC initially printed this series there were 36 guys, which included Simon Nicholls. Nicholls retired from BB on Apr 25, 1910.
Shortly afterwards, ALC replaced the Nicholls image on this 36-card sheet with Jake Stahl. My proof of this is by empirical means, and by Pop report data **

.



460-only series

This last series of T206's is comprised of 46 subjects. The Exclusive 12 guys and 34 other subjects. I contend that ALC printed these 34 subjects on a 36-card sheet.
They Double-Printed (D-P) two subjects to fill out the 36-card sheet. This is standard practice in the printing trade. Which two guys were D-P ? From my experience
putting together 5 - T206 sets, my best guess is Tinker was D-P. And, I tend to think Needham was also D-P. Perhaps, one of you will chime in here was some other
guesses as to which two subjects may have been D-P.



** Note
While I realize POP report data cannot be considered as absolute, I think it's fair to say that the POP data
is representative of the relative availability of certain cards with respect to other cards within that group.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #389  
Old 05-26-2018, 05:06 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





Continuing the "12 factor" in the printing of T206 sheets. It appears that the PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 cards were printed on a sheet formatted 12 cards across by
6 rows of cards down. Listed here are the 72 confirmed PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 cards. It has been my experience (and several serious collectors of this particular
PIEDMONT back) that 72 cards complete this run.






PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 confirmed list......72 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Chase (Trophy)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)

Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Latham
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Marquard (follow thru)
Mathewson (dark cap)

McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Merkle (throwing)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)

Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)
CYoung (glove)


OK, there are more examples forthcoming which support the "12 factor". However, with the examples already presented here in these 4 posts, if you are not convinced
that ALC printed the T206 sheets with 12 cards horizontally on a given sheet, then feel free to post your counter to my premise of how these cards were printed.
The "12 factor" jives with the mathematical structure of the various T206 series.



TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #390  
Old 05-28-2018, 08:31 AM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





Switching to tobacco sets other than the T206 for the moment. Here are examples of the "12 factor" as it applies to the T205 set and the 1910-1912 T215 set.

The printing of the T205 set is quite complex. But, one series of this set is very clear. This series of T205's were printed circa Fall/Winter 1911............

T205 Minor Leaguers (12 subjects)

.....

...

l<.................................................. ...................... 19" inch wide sheet .................................................. .......................>l




The 1910-1912 T215 RED CROSS set consists of 96 subjects. My guess is ALC printed the first run of these cards on a 48-card sheet in 1910.
Followed by a 2nd printing of 48 different cards (circa 1911-1912).




TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #391  
Old 05-29-2018, 08:51 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





Now, let's consider the T206 group we refer to as the Elite 11. Actually, 12 subjects are in this group when we include the one Frank Schulte card with the
rare PIEDMONT 350 back. Is this card a printer's anomaly, or was it legitimately issued ? Only time can provide us the answer to this question. So, for now
this series of guys conform with the magic "12 factor".


Elite 11.....plus Schulte







SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #649 (overprint) sheet

The make-up of an early 150 Series sheet is known by virtue of the SWEET CAPORAL 150, Factory #649 overprinted cards. It is my firm opinion that the
34 subjects in this group were printed on a 36-card sheet, in which ALC included two Double-Printed (D-P) cards.

The number "34" does not in any way fit into the 150 Series structure of 156 subjects.

Regarding the two D-P cards, my 1st guess would be Johnson and Mathewson. Does anyone here want to venture a guess which 2 subjects were D-P ?


..




TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #392  
Old 05-30-2018, 07:40 PM
gregr2's Avatar
gregr2 gregr2 is offline
Greg Ryk0w$k1
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: West Melbourne, Florida
Posts: 1,384
Default

Hi Ted, thanks for always providing such top notch T206 information. I notice you say you “speculate” about such things as players next to each other on a sheet and other things. My question is, did the printers not keep records or have they all been destroyed? Sorry if this has been answered before.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Numerous successful transactions on Net54, just ask for references.

https://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/gregr2
Reply With Quote
  #393  
Old 05-30-2018, 10:20 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr2 View Post
Hi Ted, thanks for always providing such top notch T206 information. I notice you say you “speculate” about such things as players next to each other on a sheet and other things. My question is, did the printers not keep records or have they all been destroyed? Sorry if this has been answered before.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks Greg, and, you ask a great question. Apparently, nothing was saved from American Litho's printing days of their various sets of tobacco cards (1909 - 1919).
Millions and millions of cards were produced, and not even a single sheet of cards has been discovered. This is really very strange. The only example which I know of
players horizontally adjacent to each other on a sheet is Chance (yellow portrait) and Cobb (red portrait), because I have seen a mis-cut T206 indicating this.

Years ago I was in downtown Manhattan, so I ventured over to Park Ave. and E 19th Street where the American Lithographic building still stands. I entered it, hoping
to find a showroom (or some kind of museum) displaying all the great stuff this great printing Company produced in the early 20th Century. What I found were many
professional offices, but no showrooms and no displays of any kind. The only thing I got out that visit was this photo I took of the building's entrance.





One of the competitors to American Lithographic (ALC) was Schmidt Lithography in San Francisco. They produced the OBAK cards. If you go to San Francisco,
visit the museum that Schmidt Lithography has on display. It's a real shame that ALC did not do the same.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #394  
Old 05-31-2018, 10:07 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Thanks Greg, and, you ask a great question. Apparently, nothing was saved from American Litho's printing days of their various sets of tobacco cards (1909 - 1919).
Millions and millions of cards were produced, and not even a single sheet of cards has been discovered. This is really very strange. The only example which I know of
players horizontally adjacent to each other on a sheet is Chance (yellow portrait) and Cobb (red portrait),
because I have seen a mis-cut T206 indicating this.

Years ago I was in downtown Manhattan, so I ventured over to Park Ave. and E 19th Street where the American Lithographic building still stands. I entered it, hoping
to find a showroom (or some kind of museum) displaying all the great stuff this great printing Company produced in the early 20th Century. What I found were many
professional offices, but no showrooms and no displays of any kind. The only thing I got out that visit was this photo I took of the building's entrance.





One of the competitors to American Lithographic (ALC) was Schmidt Lithography in San Francisco. They produced the OBAK cards. If you go to San Francisco,
visit the museum that Schmidt Lithography has on display. It's a real shame that ALC did not do the same.


TED Z
.

There are several horizontal miscut T206's

Here are the ones I have scans of...

Stephens with a part Of Rossman
Stephens - Rossman Miscut.jpg

Sheckard with Part of Goode, these two are also Neighbors on
a plate scratch sheet.

Sheckard-Goode - Copy.jpg
Sheckard - Goode Plate Scratch - Copy - Copy.jpg

Bergen with part of Herzog (Boston) that Jantz picked up at last years national

Bergen - Herzog - Copy.jpg

horizontal sheet mates can also be found on many of the ghosts...

Wilson Ghost - Copy.jpg
Charles-Fletcher.jpg

on scraps such as the test print scrap....

Test Print Scrap - Copy.jpg

and on all of the plate scratch sheets

attachmentU8OPTOUU.jpg
Donlin-Mullin-Tannehill.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #395  
Old 05-31-2018, 10:07 AM
jerrys's Avatar
jerrys jerrys is offline
Je.rry Spillm@n
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 934
Default

Hi Ted,

Well worth reading is an article written by Andy Broome - Printing The Monster.

The article explores the logistics of assembling the player permission and images needed to produce such an enormous checklist anticipated and the clever way it was done. The connection between Joseph P. Knapp, the founder and head of the American Lithographic Company, and James B. Duke, head of the American Tobacco Company, for the printing of nearly all T-cards inserted into ATC products.

Explains the chromolithography process where T206 card sheets are passed through the printer six times for the six different layers of colors and the accuracy needed to keep perfect alignment. Blurry and ghost images as a result of any misalignment. Included in the engineering is the necessary ink color sequence of the layers in the printing.

Beside the image of the entrance to the ALC building there are pictures of a 10 ton lithopress and cutters that cut finished cardsheets of the T206 cards.

Published by Beckett Vintage Collector April, 2018.
Reply With Quote
  #396  
Old 05-31-2018, 07:03 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default

Thanks Jerry,

I will check out Andy Broome's article.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #397  
Old 05-31-2018, 08:17 PM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,037
Default

i always enjoy seeing the latest research uncovered by the plate scratches. awesome groundbreaking work patrick
__________________
R0nnie L3hman
Reply With Quote
  #398  
Old 05-31-2018, 09:00 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,586
Default

Hi Pat

Thanks for posting those horizontal mis-cut T206's.

Many years ago I saw a horizontal mis-cut T206 with the Chance (yellow portrait) adjacent to the red Cobb.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #399  
Old 05-31-2018, 09:32 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,390
Default

Thanks Ronnie.

I've heard of the Chance/Cobb Ted but I have never seen the card
or a scan. I think Brian W still has the Sheckard/Goode which I think
is one of the coolest T206 cards.
Reply With Quote
  #400  
Old 06-01-2018, 06:36 AM
edhans's Avatar
edhans edhans is offline
Ed Hans
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Buffalo, N.Y.
Posts: 810
Default

[quote=Pat R;1782169]

Bergen with part of Herzog (Boston) that Jantz picked up at last years national

Attachment 317938

I sold that one to Jantz. Sad to think I won't be seeing him again.
__________________
Please visit my website at http://t206.monkberry.com/index.html
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Consolidated access to the 15 - T206 T-brand (front/back) surveys....UPDATED tedzan Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 58 03-13-2015 03:44 PM
Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 176 07-13-2009 04:17 PM
A survey about more surveys Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 22 05-13-2007 03:50 PM
POLAR BEAR subset....need your Inputs ? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 50 04-06-2007 08:11 PM
T206 Wagner-Theory Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 24 03-20-2007 09:33 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21 AM.


ebay GSB