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  #851  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:28 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



.... Sweet Caporal .... Sovereign .......... Piedmont____The "House" that created these Tobacco cards__American Beauty ... Sovereign .......... UZIT



This thread will provide references to major contributions posted on Net54 these past 14 years that have formed a better understanding of "The Monster" [as Bill Heitman
so aptly coined his T206 book (circa 1980)].

Let's start with the 2005-2006 publication of Scot Reader's Inside T206
An excellent, very informative, and well written book that inspired many of us Net54ers to post our experiences and theory's regarding the complexities of the T206 series.

One of the early and very significant T206 threads was posted in June 2006 by Barry Arnold, titled T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection ?
This thread sparked lots of brainstorming among Net54ers regarding T206's. It included surveys; and, various aspects of the T206 series were explored.....resulting in 363
meaningful posts. Furthermore, between many of us Net54ers, it was "the start of of a beautiful friendship" (to quote Claude Raines to Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca).

In the Summer of 2006, Bill Brown posted his T206 Super-Set (excel) spreadsheet. Bill received 1000's of inputs from Net54ers for this spreadsheet. It was a great start
in the pursuit of what a T206 "master" set would be comprised of....T206 Super-Set

Sept 2007, I started a thread titled Joe Doyle NAT'L and it's 11 "cousins"....SURVEY to explore certain PIEDMONT 350 cards that I considered as rare as the Joe Doyle
"error" card. I eventually referred to these particular T206's as the Elite 11


Subsequent posts in this thread will expand on theory's regarding the structure of the T206 series and the front/back permutations that have resulted. A fair number of the
theory's presented on Net54 (since 2006) have withstood the test of time. Providing accurate lists of which front/back combos were printed. And, which ones are No-Prints.

So, stay tuned......many more T206 "oldies but goodies" References and Reflections will be posted here.

And, feel free to contribute any meaningful T206 stories, or experiences collecting T206's that you have.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________

INDEX

Post #1......Introduction....plus Scot Reader's " Inside T206 " book, and 3 significant T206 threads (circa..2006) for starters.

Set your user settings to display 50 posts per Page. Then click on the topic of interest, then scan page for Post # noted.


Post #2......The beginning of the six "Super-Prints"

Post #4......SOVEREIGN phantom "350/460" series (apple green cards)

Post #5......350/460 series backs identified

Post #8......350/460 series mutually-exclusive cards

Post #22.....T206 Plank mystery

Post #25.....T206 DRUM's...."A-B-C-D" connection

Post #26.....A-B-C-D connection expanded

Post #28.....1910 COUPON (T213-1) sub-set

Post #30.....Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back

Post #31.....T206 Checklists....plus 1910 COUPON, T215-1 and Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb

Posts #33 & 34.....Richard Russell's unique T206 collection

Posts #35 - 36 & 38.....Exclusive 12 group (460-only series)

Post #39.....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 No Frame subjects = DRUM subjects

Posts #44 & 48.....Collecting T206 sets....tell us your story's

Post #54.....T206 all-PIEDMONT set

Post #65......SOVEREIGN set story

Post #69......SWEET CAPORAL, Factory #30 set story

Posts #72 & 74......AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure

Posts #76 - 77......T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....FAKE's !

Post #93.....T206 "Proofs"

Post #96.....UZIT checklist

Post #97.....Spring of 1911....T206 era ends....the start of the "Golden era" begins

Post #98.....ATC Factory's associated with the White-Bordered cards (1909 - 1911)

Posts #101 & 106.....BROAD LEAF 460 checklist

Post #107.....Hobby greats....Frank Nagy and Bill Heitman

Post #108.....CAROLINA BRIGHTS checklist

Post #124.....PIEDMONT 460, Factory #42 checklist

Posts #128 - 131.....Why are Connie Mack, Jack Coombs, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Smoky Joe Wood missing in the T206 set ?

Posts #134 & 138.....Timeline of the T206 POLAR BEAR cards

Post #144.....T206 OLD MILL (Major League series) cards

Post #146..... T206 OLD MILL Southern League cards

Post #161.....Southern League cards (continued)

Post #162.....T206 Southern Leaguers Brown OLD MILL cards

Post #171.....The mysterious T206 brown LENOX cards

Post #181.....SWEET CAPORAL 460, Factory #30 backs (w/o Factory #42 overprint)

Post #190.....El Principe de Gales T206 cards

Post #196.....SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #42 overprint cards

Post #198.....Regional source of the Elite 11 cards

Posts #201 >> 227.....Show-n-tell us of your favorite T206's

Posts #231 >> 248.....Show-n-tell us of your T206 Run(s)

Posts #263 >> 276.....T206 color printing errors......let's see some of these interesting T206's

Posts #282 >> 294.....The mysterious nature of the Red HINDU cards

Posts #302 >> 316.....Show-n-tell us of your MAGIE cards

Posts #328 >> 333.....T206 150-only subjects......

Posts #334 >> 346.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #353 >> 358.....PIEDMONT set structure & checklist

Posts #360 >> 366.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Post #368.....Reminiscing about T206's in 2005

Post #378.....Remembering Jantz Morey

Posts #379 >> 385.....T206 TRIVIA QUIZ....1st correct answer wins T206

Posts #386 >> 402.....T206 printed sheet structure

Posts #405 >> 440.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards

Posts #441 >> 450.....Comparable printing patterns in T205's

Posts #453 >> 467.....Guess the price of a near complete T206 set

Posts #469 >> 470.....Guess the selling price of a COMPLETE SOVEREIGN set

Posts #471 >> 474.....Guess selling price of a near complete PIEDMONT set

Posts #476 >> 479.....Guess selling price of a complete SWEET CAP, F#30 set

Posts #481 >> 515.....Show-n-Tell us of your T206 "finds"

Posts #516 >> 536....."Bang the DRUM Slowly" while showing us your DRUM cards

Posts #537 >> 551.....Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Posts #553 >> 554.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #561 >> 570.....FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Posts #571 >> 572.....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

Posts #573 >> 573.....T206 Southern League cards illustrated

Posts #574 >> 579.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Posts #580 >> 597.....Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Posts #598 >> 600.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #601 >> 603.....Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards ?

Posts #605 >> 621.....the TOLSTOI story

Posts #622 >> 623.....Meet me at Philly, we can Talk T206's

Posts #624 >> 635.....CYCLE 460 checklist

Posts #636 >> 650.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #651 >> 664.....The "MONSTER" Master Set achievement

Posts #665 >> 669.....UPGRADING T206 cards

Posts #671 >> 674.....And then, there are times to down-grade your T206's

Posts #675 >> 692.....Black LENOX checklist

Posts #693 >> 697.....Check-out Jamie B's multi-brand T206 card

Posts #698 >> 700.....Revisting the mysterious Ty Cobb card with TY COBB back

Posts #701 >> 713.....Reprising the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card debate

Posts #714 >> 726.....CYCLE 350 checklist..... where have all the CYCLE 350 cards gone ?

Posts #727 >> 741.....the enigmatic Lajoie (with bat)..... Post your inputs and/or cards

Posts #742 >> 750.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #751 >> 760.....The elusive ELITE 11....show them, if you have them

Posts #761 >> 800.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #801 >> 821.....How do you collect T206's: Graded or Ungraded ?...show us your cards

Posts #824 >> 832.....Possible sources of the T206 Wagner cards

Posts #833 >> 850.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #851 >> 853.....T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here

Posts #854 >> 860.....What backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?


In this thread, I've tried to present some very complex aspects of the Series structure of the T206 set in a style which is understandable to most of the T206 collectors.
However, if not clear, don't be shy about asking questions. Post your questions on this thread. Or, email me directly with your questions.... tedzan11@comcast.net
In either event, I will gladly do my best to provide you clear and meaningful answer(s).


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; Yesterday at 09:27 PM. Reason: Updated INDEX.
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  #852  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:55 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,736
Default T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnP0621 View Post
Here's MY only blank backAttachment 368421

Hi John

Thanks for posting Steinfeldt...the batting pose of him is one of my favorite T206's.


TED Z
.
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  #853  
Old 10-26-2019, 08:08 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,736
Default T206 REFERENCE / Reflections...T206 BLANK-BACKS...if you have them, post them here...

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





While this 1921 card of Smoky Joe Wood is obviously not a T206, it is a Blank-Back card. So, I posted it here because it's a mystery why he was not included in the T206 set.
He started pitching for Boston (AL) in 1908. He Won 11, lost 7 in 1909 with an ERA = 2.18

American Lithographic could have featured Smoky Joe in their 460 Series (issued in early 1911), as they did with these 5 rookies, who started their careers in 1910:
Josh Devore
Russ Ford
Chick Gandil
Rube Geyer
Zach Wheat


Anyone here have any theories as to why Smoky Joe is not in the T206 set (and, for that matter not in the T205 set, which certain series were issued late in the Fall of 1911) ?
I would like to hear them.





TED Z
.
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  #854  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:35 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,736
Default T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




I cannot decide which of these three are my favorite backs; therefore, I'll start this show with examples of all three...

AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 (AB 460) and UZIT backs were printed concurrently. Research indicates that they were issued circa Jan-Feb 1911. I believe the AB 460 and the UZIT
cards were in the last production runs of the T206 set.
I equate them to the 1952 TOPPS and 1949 BOWMAN High number's series (which were issued in the Fall of their respective years). Short-printed, and quite difficult to find.
And this is certainly very true for the AB 460 and UZIT T206 cards.


My 14-year adventure is nearly complete, I have 72 of the 74 subjects printed with the AB 460 back

. . .




McGraw is the favorite of my UZIT cards, since this card is unique (till some day a 2nd one is discovered)

.




My 1910 COUPON run includes the T206 six Super-Prints....plus 7 other T206 subjects. Willett is my nicest example


. . . .



OK, let's see which T206 back(s) are your favorite. And, tell us what in particular appeals to you about the back....or whatever ?


TED Z
.
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  #855  
Old 11-04-2019, 08:56 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,736
Default T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




I received an email from a new member inquiring about the "Super-Prints" which I referred to in my above post.

OK, most of you T206 enthusiasts are quite familiar with this term. For those who are new to this T206 game pictured below are the 6 super-print subjects. The significance
of these 6 subjects were identified by Scot Reader in his excellent research which he documented in his book...."Inside T206". The super-prints are more available than any
other T206's since these cards were printed with more tobacco brands. Furthermore, it is evident in many cases that these 6 subjects were Double-Printed on T206 sheets.


. .

. .








TED Z
.
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  #856  
Old 11-05-2019, 09:10 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,736
Default T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




Well, since there haven't been any responses to this topic at this point, I'll give this thread a friendly bump by noting my 4th favorite T206 back....BROAD LEAF 350 (BL 350).
And, my favorite guy with a BL 350 back is Mr. Chase.

Theoretically, there were 190 BL 350 cards printed by American Lithographic. To date, 177 subjects have been confirmed with the BL 350 back. This is indeed a difficult T206
back to find. I expect that the remaining 13 unaccounted for guys will eventually being discovered.






TED Z
.
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  #857  
Old 11-05-2019, 09:30 PM
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Leon Leon is offline
Leon
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Default

Great posts, Ted. Except I don't think everyone in the hobby is completely on board with the Coupons being T206, as they are T213s. Otherwise, thanks for sharing.
And I am very much looking forward to March.....We can argue about this in person! And we will have to see where Danny lands on this issue. Should be fun.
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  #858  
Old 11-06-2019, 09:32 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,736
Default T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




Here is my favorite T206 Minor League guy, Frank Delehanty, who is not only pictured with a BROAD LEAF 350 (BL 350) back, but my complete A - B - C - D array.






Speaking about the Minor League guys with the BL 350 back, here is their Checklist. (80 subjects). Note that 5 subjects are....Not yet confirmed (Nyc)

Abbott
Adkins
Anderson
Armbruster
Arndt
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch
Beckley
Blackburne
Brain
Brashear ………...(Nyc)
Burchell
Burke
Butler
Carr ………………….(Nyc)
Casey
Cassidy
Chappelle
Clancy
Clark

Clymer
Congalton
Cravath
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dessau
Dorner
Downs
Dunn (Baltimore)
Flanagan
Freeman
Ganzel
Grimshaw
Hall
Hallman
Hannifan
Hayden
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoffman (Providence)
Jackson

Kelley
Kisinger
Kruger
Lattimore
Lavender
Malarkey
Maloney
McGann …………...(Nyc)
McGinley
McGinnity
McGlynn
Merritt
Milligan
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Providence))
Nattress
Oberlin
O'Brien
O'Neill

Phelan
Pickering ………….(Nyc)
Poland
Quillen
Randall
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schlafly …….……..(Nyc)
Schreck
Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle
Smith (Buffalo)
Strang
Taylor
Thielmann
White (Buffalo)
Wright
Irv Young


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-06-2019 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #859  
Old 11-07-2019, 10:10 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *




I would be remiss, if I have not provided a Checklist for the Major League subjects with the BROAD LEAF 350 backs.





110 Major League subjects were printed with the BROAD LEAF 350 back.

Note that 8 subjects are.... Not yet confirmed (Nyc)

Abstein
Arellanes
Atz ......(Nyc)
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Beck
Becker
Bender (trees)
Bescher (portrait)
Bliss
Bresnahan (bat
Burns
Bush
Campbell
Carrigan
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Charles
Chase (portrait-blue)
Chase (dark cap) ..(Nyc)
Cobb (portrait- red) .....(Nyc)

Eddie Collins
Cree
Dineen
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Downey (fielding)
Dubuc
Joe Dunn (Brooklyn)
Dygert
Easterly ......(Nyc)
Egan
Engle
Evers (yellow sky)
Ferguson .....(Nyc)
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Fletcher
Fromme
Gasper
Graham (Boston)

Graham (St Louis)
Hartsel
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (St Louis)
Hofman
Howard (Chicago)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hulswitt
Hunter
Jones (Detroit)
Killian (portrait)
Knabe
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
LaPorte

Lennox
Livingstone
Lord
Maddox
Marquard (portrait)
Marshall
Mathewson (dark cap) ...(Nyc)
McAleese
McBride
McCormick
McElveen
McIntyre (Detroit)
Milan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Mitchell (Cinci)
Moran (Chicago)
Moriarty
Mullen (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)

Myers (fielding)
Oakes
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelps
Phillippe
Purtell
Quinn
Raymond
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Rhodes
Schmidt (portrait) ....(Nyc)
Scott
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr
Stephens .....(Nyc)
Street (portrait)

Summers
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Thomas
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
Willett (bat)
Wilson
Zimmerman


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-08-2019 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Added scan.
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  #860  
Old Yesterday, 09:02 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 7,736
Default T206 REFERENCE....what backs are your favorite(s), and do you collect runs of them ?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *





Ok, since we are not getting any BROAD LEAF 350 responses here, perhaps let's try for the for "rarest of the rare"....how's about showing off your BROAD LEAF 460 cards.


Theoretically, American Lithographic printed 35 subjects with the BROAD LEAF 460 back. As of today, 28 of these T206's are confirmed.

These 7 unconfirmed cards remain.

Ames (hands above head)
Bender (no trees)
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chase (blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Magee (bat)


It would be great see one (or 2) these T206's displayed here. Earlier this year Donlin (batting) was discovered. So, there is hope that more (if not all) of these 7 subjects will
eventually be found with BROAD LEAF 460 backs..


TED Z
.
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