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  #551  
Old 10-23-2018, 05:15 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 Reference...Reflections...Guess how many Demmitt & O'Hara St Louis cards exist ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Millerd33 View Post
Do you think the Demmitt/O'hara are notably any more rare than the average PB common? How would you rate it's survivor population vs the average PB common.

Much lower
Slightly lower
Almost equal
Equal

Your question is too general. It depends which series of POLAR BEAR (PB) cards you are comparing Demmitt and O'Hara with.

As I elaborated on in Post #549 here, there are 3 series of T206 cards in which PB backs were printed in. The 350/460 series subjects were printed
with a greater number of PB backs than the subjects in the other two series. This is an indisputable fact which is indicated in population report data.

For example....the population report data of the red Cobb shows 320 cards. This Cobb is in the 350/460 series; therefore, either Demmitt or O'Hara
would conceivably be 300+ cards (each). Since, it's my firm belief that these two St Louis variations were printed with this group.


TED Z
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  #552  
Old 10-23-2018, 06:15 PM
Millerd33 Millerd33 is offline
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Thank you for helping me through this. Lets narrow down more to try and see if I can get on the same page with my question.
Given any/average common in the 350/460 series. Is the Demmitt and O'hara any more rare than the other examples from that series?
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  #553  
Old 10-31-2018, 07:11 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections....FYI-rosters of the 16 Major League teams

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *





The T206 set comprises of 388 - Major League ballplayers. A breakdown of a each of the 16 team rosters will be listed here in the forthcoming posts.

The printers at American Lithograph certainly favored the NY Giants (printing 53 subjects). A number far greater than any other team in the set. Not
surprising, since American Lithographic was situated in downtown New York City (NYC). In fact, the combined representation of the three NYC teams
is 27 % of the Major League guys in this set.

For starters, here is the New York Giants roster with respect to the 4 series in the T206 set...…




150 Series ..……………………...printed & issued circa Summer 1909 to Winter 1909
Ames (hands at chest)
Ames (portrait)
Bridwell (portrait-no cap)
Crandall (no cap)
Devlin
Donlin (fielding)
Donlin (seated)
Larry Doyle (throwing)
Durham
Herzog (New York)
Marquard (hands at side)
Mathewson (portrait)
Mathewson (white cap)
McGraw (portrait-no cap)
McGraw (pointing)
Merkle (portrait)
Schlei (catching)
Seymour (batting)
Tenney
Weimer
Wiltse (portrait-no cap)




350-only Series ..……………………...printed & issued circa Winter 1909 to Fall 1910
Fletcher
Marquard (portrait)
McCormick
Murray (bat)
Myers (batting)
Myers (fielding)
O'Hara
Raymond
Snodgrass (batting)




350/460 series ..……………………...printed & issued circa Fall 1910 to Spring 1911
Ames (hands over head)
Donlin (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Mathewson (dark cap)
Seymour (throwing)
Snodgrass (catching)
Wiltse (pitching)




460-only Series ..……………………...printed & issued circa Winter 1910 to Spring 1911
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Larry Doyle (portrait)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)
Wiltse (pitching)


Here is the tally for the 16 - Major League teams...…

National League

Subjects..Team
-------------------
53...……..New York
37...……..Chicago
26...………Brooklyn
23...……..Cincinnati
19...……..Pittsburgh
18...……..St Louis
14...……..Boston
13...……..Philadelphia


American League

Subjects..Team
------------------
30...……..Detroit
27...……..New York
27...……..Chicago
25...……..Cleveland
22...……..St Louis
22...……..Philadelphia
19...……..Washington
13...……..Boston
----
388 = grand total subjects


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 12-17-2018 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #554  
Old 11-01-2018, 04:34 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Here we have the New York Highlanders (27 subjects) and the Brooklyn Superbas (26 subjects)


.

150 series
Ball (New York)
Chase (pink portrait)
Chase (white cap)
Chesbro
Hemphill
Keeler (portrait)
Keeler (bat)
Kleinow (bat)
Lake (New York)
Manning (batting)

350-only series
Cree
Demmitt
Joe Doyle (hands over head)
Engle
Kleinow (New York-catching)
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
LaPorte
Quinn
Warhop

350/460 series
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Manning (pitching)
Jeff Sweeney (fielding)

460-only series
Chase (trophy)
Ford
Frill




.


150 series
Alperman
Bell (hands over head)
Bergen (bat)
Burch (bat)
Jordan (portrait)
Lumley
McIntyre (Brooklyn)
Pastorius
Pattee
Rucker (portrait)
Wilhelm (hands at chest)

350-only Series
Joe Dunn
Dahlen (Brooklyn)
Hunter
Lennox
Marshall
McElveen

350/460 Series
Burch (fielding)
Jordan (bat)
Rucker (throwing)
Wilhelm (with bat)

460-only series
Bell (throwing)
Bergen (catching)
Hummel
Happy Smith (Brooklyn)
Wheat


Stay tuned......13 more Teams to go.


TED Z
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  #555  
Old 11-02-2018, 01:19 AM
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Hey Ted, I know that this is off topic, but I just noticed something. And I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere:

What team did J. Ross Helm play for?

Attachment 332979


I know that it says Columbus, but he is a Southern Leaguer, and Columbus is not in the South.

Here is a scan of some minor leaguers. The top five are from Columbus. Their uniforms feature two different "C" logos. Neither of them match the "C" on Helm's uniform.The next two played for Columbia, and their logo is totally different.

The final row is Foster and Paige, both of whom played for Charleston, and their "C" logo is an exact match for Helm's. It appears that Helm also played for Charleston, but on his card the printers erroneously wrote Columbus.


scan0001.jpg


I don't know where to look up minor leaguer's stats, but I'm sure someone here does, and can confirm which team Helm played for.
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  #556  
Old 11-02-2018, 01:21 AM
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Here is that scan of Helm where he is identified as a Southern Leaguer:

scan0003.jpg scan0004.jpg
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  #557  
Old 11-02-2018, 06:20 AM
OldOriole OldOriole is offline
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Default Helm

James Ross Helm played for both Columbus and Chattanooga in 1909, according to his baseball-reference page. He played for several teams in the Southern League, including Montgomery and Little Rock as well. Your observation on the jersey logo is very interesting. It doesn't look like he ever played for Charleston, but that 'C' sure does match up.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=helm--001jam

Last edited by OldOriole; 11-02-2018 at 06:22 AM.
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  #558  
Old 11-02-2018, 07:00 AM
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Here's an old thread about Helm playing on the Columbus GA
team in 1909.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=Helm
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  #559  
Old 11-02-2018, 08:37 AM
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It seems that misspelling these players names is an eternal issue:

helms.jpg
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  #560  
Old 11-02-2018, 11:33 AM
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Hey Pat, that old thread was a great find. So it seems that the other five players in the set played for the Columbus, Ohio team. But Helm played for Columbus, Georgia. But he still seems to be wearing that Charleston "C" on his uniform.

But at least we know that they did get the team and league right for Helm.

Last edited by Sean; 11-02-2018 at 01:04 PM.
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  #561  
Old 11-02-2018, 07:20 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Getting back to the Major League team rosters....listed here are the Chicago Cubs (37 subjects) and the Detroit Tigers (30 subjects).

After the NY Giants roster, these 2 teams have the most representation of players in the T206 set. I would guess this was by design,
since the Cubs and the Tigers were in the 1907 and 1908 World Series.




.


150 series
M. Brown (Cubs)
M. Brown (portrait)
G. Brown (batting-Chicago)
Chance (red portrait)
Evers (bat-blue sky)
Evers (portrait)
Kling
Lundgren (Cubs)
Overall (portrait)
Reulbach (glove)
Schulte (front view)
Sheckard (no glove)
Steinfeldt (portrait)
Tinker (portrait)
Tinker (hands on knees)

350-only series
Hofman
Howard
Kroh
Moran
Pfeister (seated)
Zimmerman

350/460 series
M. Brown (Chicago)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
McIntyre (Brooklyn and Chicago)
Overall (arm at face level)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Steinfeldt (with bat)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)

460-only series
Chance (batting)
Needham
Overall (arm at waist level)
Pfeffer
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)







150 series
Cobb (green portrait)
Cobb (bat on shoulder)
Crawford (throwing)
Donovan (portrait)
Jennings (portrait)
Killian (pitching)
Mullin (throwing)
O'Leary (portrait)
Schaefer (Detroit)
Schmidt (throwing)

350-only Series
Bush
Donovan (throwing)
Davy Jones
Killian (portrait)
M. McIntyre (Detroit)
Moriarty
Mullen
Rossman
Schmidt (portrait)
Stanage
Summers
Willett

350/460 Series
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Crawford (batting)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Mullin (batting)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Willetts

460-only series
NONE




Stay tuned.....11 more Teams to go.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-03-2018 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #562  
Old 11-03-2018, 08:42 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Listed here are the Chicago White Sox (27 subjects), Cleveland Indians (25 subjects), and the Cincinnati Reds (23 subjects) teams.



.


150 series
George Davis (Chicago)
Donohue
Dougherty (portrait)
Hahn
Isbell
F. Jones (portrait)
F. Jones (hands at hips)
Owen
Parent
F. Smith (Chicago)
Sullivan
L Tannehill (Chicago)
Walsh
Doc White (portrait)

350-only series
Atz
Burns
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Purtell
Scott
F. Smith (white cap)

350/460 series
Dougherty (arm in air)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)

460-only series
Duffy
Gandil
Payne
Tannehill (Chicago)






150 series
Birmingham
Bradley (portrait)
JJ Clarke
Flick
Goode
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Joss (portrait)
Lajoie (portrait)
Lajoie (throwing)
Liebhardt
Stovall (portrait)
Turner
CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)

350-only Series
Easterly
Perring
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Rhoades (arm extended)

350/460 Series
Berger
Bradley (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Lajoie (bat)
CYoung (glove at hip)

460-only series
Ball (Cleveland)
Stovall (bat)






150 series
Ewing
Griffith (portrait)
Karger
Lobert
Spade

350-only Series
Bescher (portrait)
Campbell
Downey fielding)
Dubuc
Egan
Fromme
Gasper
Hoblitzell
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands at mouth)
McLean
Mike Mitchell
Mowrey
Oakes
Paskert

350/460 Series
Downey (bat)
Griffith (bat)

460-only series
Bescher (hands over head)



Stay tuned.....8 more Teams to go.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-05-2018 at 09:47 PM. Reason: Left out Ball (Cleveland), now included.
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  #563  
Old 11-04-2018, 07:30 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Listed here are the St Louis Browns (22 subjects), St Louis Cardinals (18 subjects), and the Washington Senators (19 subjects) teams.



.


150 series
Criger
Criss
Ferris
Tom Jones
Pelty (horizontal)
Powell
Stone
Waddell (portrait)
Waddell (throwing)
Wallace
Williams

350-only series
Dineen
Graham (St Louis A.L.)
Hoffman (St Louis A.L.)
Howell (portrait)
McAleese
Stephens

350/460 series
Lake (St Louis-no ball)
Pelty (vertical)

460-only series
Howell (hand at waist)
Lake (St Louis-ball)
and,
Demmitt (St Louis American))






.


150 series
Bresnahan (portrait)
Gilbert
Konetchy (glove high)
Al Shaw

350-only Series
Barbeau
Bliss
Bresnahan (bat)
Charles
Byrne
Evans
Hulswitt
Phelps
Rhodes

350/460 Series
Konetchy (glove low)
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)

460-only series
Geyer
and,
O'Hara (St Louis Nat'l)









150 series
Conroy (fielding)
Delehanty (Washington)
Ganley
Johnson (portrait)
Shipke

350-only Series
G. Brown (Washington)
Elberfeld (portrait-Washington)
Gray
Groom
McBride
Milan
Street (portrait)
Unglaub
J. Tannehill (Washington)

350/460 Series
Conroy (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Johnson (pitching)
Street (catching)

460-only series
Schaefer (Washington)



Stay tuned.....only 5 more Teams to go.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-04-2018 at 11:14 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #564  
Old 11-05-2018, 06:31 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Listed here are the rosters of the Philadelphia Athletics (22 subjects), Pittsburgh Pirates (19 subjects), and the Philadelphia Phillies (13 subjects) teams.



.


150 series
Bender (portrait)
Harry Davis (A's)
Murphy (throwing)
Nicholls (hands on knees)
Oldring (fielding)
Plank
Powers

350-only series
Barry (A's)
Bender (trees)
Collins (A's)
Dygert
Hartsel
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Livingstone
Thomas

350/460 series
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Harry Davis (A's)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)

460-only series
Oldring (bat)









150 series
Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Camnitz (arms folded)
Clarke (portrait)
Clarke (bat)
Gibson
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)
Honus Wagner
Willis (portrait)

350-only Series
Abstein
Maddox
Miller (Pittsburg)
Phillippe
Wilson

350/460 Series
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)

460-only series
Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Camnitz (arm at side)









150 series
Bransfield
Coveleski
Dooin
Doolin
Jacklitsch
Magee
McQuillan (ball in hand)

350-only Series
Doolan (fielding)
Knabe
Titus

350/460 Series
Doolan (bat)
Magee (bat)
McQuillan (bat)

460-only series
NONE



And finally, the next post will complete the sixteen Major League teams by listing the Boston Doves and the Boston Red Sox rosters.


TED Z
.
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  #565  
Old 11-05-2018, 08:42 PM
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Great posts Ted!
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  #566  
Old 11-05-2018, 09:09 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Thanks, Ryan

Hope to see you at the Philly Show at the end of this month (Nov 30 - Dec 2).


TED Z
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  #567  
Old 11-06-2018, 10:00 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Listed here are the rosters of the Boston Doves (14 subjects) and the Boston Red Sox (13 subjects) teams.



.


150 series
Bates
Beaumont
Bowerman
Dahlen (Boston Nat'l)
Lindaman
Ritchey

350-only Series
Beck
Becker
Ferguson
Graham (Boston Nat'L)
Mattern
Starr
Bill Sweeney (Boston Nat'L)

350/460 Series
NONE

460-only series
Herzog (Boston Nat'L)









150 series
Cicotte
Niles
Spencer
Stahl (no glove)
Wagner (bat on left)

350-only Series
Arellanes
Carrigan
Lord
Speaker

350/460 Series
Kleinow (Boston)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Stahl (glove)
Wagner (bat on right)

460-only series
NONE



"That's All Folks"............we have accounted for all sixteen Major League teams which comprise of 388 ballplayers in the T206 set.

Check out your favorite team's roster in Posts #553, 554, 561--564, and 567.


TED Z
.
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  #568  
Old 11-07-2018, 08:33 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *






I've arranged the cards in my T206 sets in their albums with respect to each Series. This arrangement has greatly enabled me to understand the structure of this "Monster".
I'm a "numbers" guy, so here's the T206 set breakdown numerically with respect to each Series......

..12 = 150-only series (Major Leaguers)
143 = 150/350 series (Major Leaguers)
122 = 350-only series (Major Leaguers)
..63 = 350/460 series (Major Leaguers)
..46 = 460-only series (Major Leaguers)
….2 Demmitt & O'Hara (St Louis variations)
-----
388 = total (Major Leaguers)

..86 = 350-only series (Minor Leaguers)
..48 = Southern Leaguers series
----
522 = total number of subjects in T206 set


Furthermore,

#523 ………………………………………………………………......…. #524
. .


AND,


#525 .....for those of you who consider this card a T206





TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-07-2018 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #569  
Old 11-09-2018, 04:38 PM
Roulette44 Roulette44 is offline
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Awesome work, Ted - thanks for all you do to keep this place T206-informative!
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  #570  
Old 11-09-2018, 10:55 PM
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections......FYI: T206 rosters of the 16 Major League teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulette44 View Post
Awesome work, Ted - thanks for all you do to keep this place T206-informative!

One of my favorite words....."awesome". Thanks for your complimentary words, they are very much appreciated.

Anything any one wants to know about "The Monster" is in this thread, and there is more info that will be posted.


TED Z
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  #571  
Old 11-20-2018, 08:05 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *





Listed here are the 350 Series Minor Leaguer's, comprising of 86 subjects....48 subjects are from the Eastern League, and 38 subjects are from the American Association.


Eastern League
------------------
Baltimore Orioles
Buffalo Bisons
Jersey City Skeeters
Montreal Royals
Newark Indians
Providence Grays
Rochester Bronchos
Toronto Maple Leafs


American Association
------------------------
Columbus Senators
Indianapolis Indians
Kansas City Blues
Louisville Colonels
Milwaukee Brewers
Minneapolis Millers
St Paul Saints
Toledo Mud Hens

350 Series Minor League subjects

Abbott (Toledo)
Adkins (Baltimore)
Anderson (Providence)
Armbruster (St Paul)
Arndt (Providence)
Barger (Rochester)
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch (Rochester)
Beckley (Kansas City)
Blackburne (Providence)
Brain (Buffalo)
Brashear (Kansas City)
Burchell (Buffalo)
Burke (Indianapolis)
Butler (Rochester)
Carr (Indianapolis)
Casey (Montreal)
Cassidy (Baltimore)
Chappelle (Rochester)
Clancy (Buffalo)

Clark (Columbus)
Clymer (Columbus)
Collins (Minneapolis)
Congalton (Columbus)
Cravath (Minneapolis)
Cross (Indianapolis)
Davidson (Indianapolis)
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dessau (Baltimore)
Dorner (Kansas City)
Downs (Minneapolis)
Jack Dunn (Baltimore)
Flanagan (Buffalo)
Freeman (Toledo)
Ganzel (Rochester)
Grimshaw (Toronto)
Hall (Baltimore)
Hallman (Kansas City)
Hannifan (Jersey City)
Hayden (Indianapolis)

Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoffman (Providence)
Jackson (Baltimore)
Kelley (Toronto)
Kisinger (Buffalo)
Kruger (Columbus)
Lattimore (Toledo)
Lavender (Providence)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Malarkey (Buffalo)
Maloney (Rochester)
McGann (Milwaukee)
McGinley (Toronto)
McGinnity (Newark)
McGlynn (Milwaukee)
Merritt (Jersey City)
Milligan (Jersey City)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller (Jersey City)
Moran (Providence)

Nattress (Buffalo)
Oberlin (Minneapolis)
O'Brien (St Paul)
O'Neill (Minneapolis)
Phelan (Providence)
Pickering (Minneapolis)
Poland (Baltimore)
Puttman (Louisville)
Quillen (Minneapolis)
Randall (Milwaukee)
Ritter (Kansas City)
Rudolph (Toronto)
Schirm (Buffalo)
Schlafly (Newark)
Schreck (Columbus)
Shannon (Kansas City)
Sharpe (Newark)
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle (Baltimore)
Smith (Buffalo)

Strang (Baltimore)
Taylor (Buffalo)
Thielman (Louisville)
White (Buffalo)
Wright (Toledo)
Irv Young (Minneapolis)


All these cards are found with PIEDMONT backs, and SWEET CAPORAL backs. Only 59 of them are found with SOVEREIGN backs (27 subjects are SOVEREIGN No-Prints).

Furthermore, 80 of these Minor League cards were printed with tougher backs, such as the A-B-C-D backs. To date, 80 subjects have been confirmed with the AB and CYCLE
backs. Approx. 75 with the BL 350 back. And, approx. 40 with the DRUM back. I expect that eventually more of these Minor Leaguer's will be found with the latter two backs.






TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-24-2018 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #572  
Old 11-21-2018, 07:30 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections....FYI: 350 Series Minor Leaguer's checklist and trivia

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *





Regarding the 86 - Minor Leaguer's in the 350 Series, I was asked which 6 guys were not printed with any of the A - B - C - D backs ?





These 6 subjects are No-Prints with respect to the A - B - C - D backs.

Barger (Rochester)
Collins (Minneapolis)
Cross (Indianapolis)
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Puttman (Louisville)
Shannon (Kansas City)


TED Z
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Last edited by tedzan; 11-24-2018 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #573  
Old 11-24-2018, 07:36 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections......T206 Southern League cards illustrated

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

__________



The T206 Southern League cards represent players in 4 Leagues in "Dixie". Checklist for these 48 subjects is found in Post # 146 in this thread.


Let's start with the 22 players representing the Virginia and South Atlantic Leagues (22) subjects




In my opinion, the 2 toughest cards in this Southern League series are Ed Foster and Frank Shaughnessy. I cannot explain why Foster is so tough, but I do understand why Shaughnessy
is tough. Frank has quite a "following". He played Baseball and Football during his years at Notre Dame (1901-1904). Played briefly for the Philadelphia A's in 1908.
Frank is in three Hall of Fames....Canadian Football Hall of Fame, the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame, and the McGill University Sports Hall of Fame. Frank was the Manager (and player)
of the Roanoke Tigers 1909 - 1911. Furthermore, he was the President of the International League from 1936–1960.

.




Southern Association (20) subjects......these cards were also included in the 1910 COUPON issue.







Texas League (6) subjects





TED Z
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  #574  
Old 11-27-2018, 09:11 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-this-one-out !

Does this "mania" get any crazier than this ? ?

So you have "completed" your T206 set. But, the Monster has you hooked. Just like those classic lyrics in the song Hotel California tell us.........
"you can check out any time you like....but, you can never leave"

Anyhow, I found this Pennsylvania license plate in a little ole Antique shop many years ago, and put it on my 1960 Thunderbird.










So, let's hear of your "Monster obsessions", I'm sure there are some very interesting ones.


TED Z
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  #575  
Old 11-27-2018, 09:50 PM
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Ted,

I accept part of the responsibility for the Monster obsession. If I'm not mistaken Heitman's book

T 206 THE MONSTER

created the association between the set and the monster term. Heitman seemed disturbed that the Monster Number thread fails to cite him in this regard. He told me he would sue for copyright infringement.

Negotiations were held in an Anaheim Ice Cream Shop witnessed by none other than Large Ass Herzog. Heitman agreed to drop the suit and vowed to support the obsession he created. Below is my proof of this encounter.

1-Monster Auto.jpg

To be honest I don't think he would have been persuaded without Large Ass looking over his wrist (?).



When it comes to autograph authentication it never hurts to have a Large Ass in the room.
__________________
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GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION


518/1000 Monster Number

Over*760* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-19.
Over 550 sales with satisfied Board members served.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.

Last edited by frankbmd; 11-29-2018 at 05:59 PM.
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  #576  
Old 11-28-2018, 10:18 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Hi Frank....very interesting.

I have reprised my post #107 here, in which I refer to posts (dating back to 2005 - 2007) where Bill responded on Net54.

I think readers will find them quite interesting....check them out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *




. < < 1st Issue ............ Issued 1980 > >




Here is the 1st issue (1962) of The Sport Hobbyist. Charles Brooks and Frank Nagy were it's co-founders. Most of us old-timers have fond memories of Frank Nagy.
Frank ran a mail auction for many decades. I saved his interesting notes (from early 1980's) which he would include with the cards won from his auction. Example:
he would often reduce the amount of your winning bid because the closest bid to it was considerably less than yours. Now, how can you beat that ?
Frank's auction stuff was very eclectic, 19th Century - 1970's cards (all sports and non-sports). I recall winning T206 (Ex) commons for $1 - $2 each. And Cobb's,
Lajoie's, Matty's, and CYoung's, etc. for less than $10 each.


In 1980, Bill Heitman's book "The Monster" was available. This 28-page book was an awesome reference for us guys new to the world of T206's. It provided us a
better understanding of the complexities of this set; and, also enlightened us and motivated us to go after the elusive rare T206 backs.

Having said all this....can you imagine how some of us on this forum were pleasantly surprised in early 2005 when Bill Heitman responded to this Net54 thread....
Possible Heitman Errors

Here are some more threads that Bill subsequently chimed in on......

T207 Davis blue C

T206 Rare Backs

REFLECTIONS of YOUTH

Collecting Exclusive Series of the T206 Set

rarest tobacco card ?

And, here's a thread dated March 2007, where Bill chimed in regarding the Wagner strip...... A T206 printing question for Bill Heitman, or anyone ?


I have some more responses from Bill around the 2005 - 2007 time period. I will add them later.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 11-28-2018 at 06:37 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #577  
Old 11-29-2018, 05:20 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post

So, let's hear of your "Monster obsessions", I'm sure there are some very interesting ones.
Hey guys,
I cannot be the only "T206 nut" on this forum that has weird T206 obsessions.

So, come on guys, show-n-tell us of your odd-ball "Monster" mania. ?

Or better yet, stop by and see me at the Philly Show this weekend (booth # 209), and we can spend hours talking T206's.


TED Z
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  #578  
Old 11-29-2018, 06:11 PM
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The inclusion of Farrah Fawcett "cards" in Bill's Monster Book was a joke played on Bill by his publisher (I believe). Bill was upset about it, but didn't want to foot the bill for a Farrahless second printing.

The Pout left and Pout Right cards are my favorites.

Farrah pouts.jpeg
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER BUT CLEARLY........

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION


518/1000 Monster Number

Over*760* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-19.
Over 550 sales with satisfied Board members served.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
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  #579  
Old 11-29-2018, 07:13 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default T206 Reference....Reflections.....T206 "Monster" obsession ? ....Check-out this one !

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
The inclusion of Farrah Fawcett "cards" in Bill's Monster Book was a joke played on Bill by his publisher (I believe). Bill was upset about it, but didn't want to foot the bill for a Farrahless second printing.

The Pout left and Pout Right cards are my favorites.

Attachment 335868

Dennis Eckes (publisher) was infatuated with Farah Fawcett at that time (1980).

Jim Beckett told me this back then. Recall that Dennis was also the publisher of the Beckett Price Guides (1979 to current).


Incidentally, I like all 6 pix of the Farah in Bill's book.


TED Z
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  #580  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:11 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *



Shown here are some of the stars in the T215-1 set


The RED CROSS (T215-1) set consists of 96 cards. Some of the RED CROSS cards were issued in 1910, and a 2nd series of cards were issued in early 1912.
This fact is evident by team trades reflected in the captions of certain 2nd series cards.

RED CROSS tobacco products were produced in Jersey City, NJ (Factory #10) by the Lorillard Tobacco Co. Lorillard was a subsidiary of American Tobacco Co.
American Lithographic (ALC) printed their 1st series of the T215-1 cards during the production run of the T206 cards in 1910. What is quite interesting in this
process of printing the T215-1 cards, ALC intermixed T206 subjects from their 150, 350, and 460 Series. The 2nd series followed in the Spring of 1912.

Regarding the T215-1 captions, note that they are printed with BROWN ink....which clearly identifies these cards as having been printed by ALC prior to 1913.
ALC switched to printing captions with BLUE ink for their white-bordered sets from 1913 - 1919 (T213-2, T213-3, T214, T215-2)





T215-1 Checklist..... 96 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Ball (Cleveland)
Bender (trees)
Bender (no trees)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Byrne Pittsburgh
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (batting)
Chase (trophy)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Eddie Collins (A's)
Conroy (bat)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Crawford (bat)
Cree
Harry Davis Cleveland
Devore
Donlin (bat) Pittsburgh

Doolan
Dougherty (arm in air)
L. Doyle (bat))
L. Doyle (portrait)
Dubuc
Elberfeld (fielding)
Ford
Fromme
Griffith (bat) Washington
Hartsel Toledo
Herzog New York NL
Hoblitzel
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait) St Louis NL
Huggins (hands/mouth) (Cincinnati)
Hummel
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)

Kelley
Konetchy (glove low)
Krause
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Latham
Leifield (bat)
Lord Chicago AL
Magee (bat)
Marquard (portrait)
Marquard (pitching)
Mathewson (white cap)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McGinnity
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Harry McIntyre Chicago NL
Matty McIntyre Chicago AL
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers

Miller
Mowrey St Louis NL
Mullin(bat)
Murphy (bat)
Murray (portrait)
Oakes St Louis NL
Oldring (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Paskert
Pelty (vertical)
Purtell
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Frank Smith Cincinnati
Speaker
Stahl (glove)

Steinfeldt (bat) St. Louis NL
Street (portrait)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (New York AL)
Tannehill (Chicago AL)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Warhop
Wheat
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wilson
Wiltse (portrait-cap))
Wiltse (pitching)
Cy Young (glove) Boston NL


TRADES....circa 1909 - Spring 1912 that are reflected on these T215-1 cards.

Bobby Byrne.................from St Louis NL to Pittsburg on Aug 19, 1909
Harry Davis......…………….Dec. 1911 signed a contract to manage Cleveland
Mike Donlin...................from Boston NL to Pittsburg on February 17, 1912
Clark Griffith.................signed a contract to manage Washington in Oct 1911
Topsy Hartsel............…..signed by Toledo (A A) in the Fall of 1911
Buck Herzog..................from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911
Miller Huggins (port).......from Cincinnati to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Harry Lord.....................from Boston AL to Chicago AL on Aug 11, 1910
Harry McIntyre...............from Brooklyn to Chicago NL on April 13, 1910
Matty McIntyre...............from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911
Mike Mowrey..................from Cincinnati to St Louis NL on August 22, 1909
Rebel Oakes................….from Cincinnati to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Frank Smith...............…..from Boston AL to Cincinnati on May 11, 1911
Harry Steinfeldt........…….1912 Spring training tryout with St Louis NL
Cy Young (glove)………….…signed with Boston Rustlers Aug 19, 1911


Hey guys
This project is still a work in progress....I may have some errors here. Therefore, feel free to correct me. I will really appreciate your inputs.


And, post your T215-1 cards....it's always neat to see some of these rarely seen tobacco cards.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 12-16-2018 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #581  
Old 12-12-2018, 08:38 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *



Shown here are some of the stars in the T215-1 set


Since no one has responded to the question.... "Do the T215-1 RED CROSS cards belong in the T206 set ?"..... my answer is YES, and NO !

YES for the cards printed and issued circa Spring/Summer 1910....and NO for the cards printed and issued circa Spring 1912.

In the Spring/Summer of 1910, ALC was printing sheets of 350 Series (T206) cards. Furthermore, the printing of 1910 COUPON (T213-1) and RED CROSS (1st series) cards
coincided with this timeline in the printing of the various T-brands of the T206 set.

My initial analysis of the 1st series of T215-1 cards indicates that at least 23 subjects were derived from this 350 Series printing of T206's. These 23 are...…

Bender (trees)
Byrne (St Louis)
Eddie Collins (A's)
Cree
Doolan
Dubuc
Fromme
Hoblitzel
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Kelley
Krause
Marquard (portrait)
McGinnity
Miller
Paskert
Purtell
Quinn
Speaker
Street (portrait)
Warhop
Wilson

Also from the 150/350 series, Mathewson (white cap) was included for a starting total of 24 subjects printed in the 1st series of T215-1 cards. Further research is continuing
in order to figure out how many more cards were in this 1st series.

Anyhow, let's get a meaningful discussion going here. It's amazing the BB card mysteries Net54 members have solved over the years when they share their theories.

So, let's hear your opinions regarding this subject ? ?





TED Z
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  #582  
Old 12-12-2018, 08:45 PM
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I am undecided as to whether t215-1 (and t213-1) should be considered t206s, but I am working on several back runs and fully feel i need the type 1 version of the cards to complete the back run. In fact, I would like to get all t213 and t215 versions (including pirate back), as well as t214, to do a true and complete back run. Doesn’t answer your question Ted, but maybe advances the topic a bit.
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  #583  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:52 PM
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I would say no since we don't know the full list of who was printed in 1910 and who was 1912. It makes sense to me that both series of cards be grouped together as their own set.
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  #584  
Old 12-13-2018, 02:01 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
I am undecided as to whether t215-1 (and t213-1) should be considered t206s, but I am working on several back runs and fully feel i need the type 1 version of the cards to complete the back run. In fact, I would like to get all t213 and t215 versions (including pirate back), as well as t214, to do a true and complete back run. Doesn’t answer your question Ted, but maybe advances the topic a bit.

Hi Ryan

Spoken like a true "white-bordered tobacco card collector"......good luck with your T-card runs.


I try for all of American Litho's printed front/back combos in my serious T-card runs.

Starting with my very 1st acquisition of the blue Chase (Willow Grove Show, March 1981)……….






. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .




.
Fac. #30..................Fac. #42 ................Fac. #42




.




A - B - C - C - D connection



Since 1981 (when I initially start my blue Chase run), I have never seen this T206 with a DRUM back. I have hope that eventually one will show up.







This run continues into the next post here...………


TED Z
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  #585  
Old 12-13-2018, 02:01 PM
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Default CONTINUATION from previous post.

Lucky for me that the blue Chase was NOT printed with the RED CROSS back




. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .







TED Z
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  #586  
Old 12-13-2018, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Lucky for me that the blue Chase was NOT printed with the RED CROSS back
I know exactly what you mean Ted. I've attempted three back runs, and all three are missing the RED CROSS back.

PS- Merkle throwing
Bresnahan batting
Street catching, also missing the Red Hindu
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  #587  
Old 12-13-2018, 09:03 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
I know exactly what you mean Ted. I've attempted three back runs, and all three are missing the RED CROSS back.

PS- Merkle throwing
Bresnahan batting
Street catching, also missing the Red Hindu

GOOD LUCK...finding the RED CROSS (T215-1) cards. You'll most likely find the red HINDU Street before
you will find any of those RED CROSS (T215-1) cards.

If I intend to run the entire white-bordered route, I start by "reverse engineering" the run....that is to start by acquiring the RED CROSS first,
then follow up with all the rest of the cards.

For example, that's how I began my Dots Miller run with this T215-1 card. Only nine backs needed in the T206 group, of which I still need the
BROAD LEAF 350, CAROLINA BRIGHTS and DRUM (although, DRUM has yet to be confirmed for Miller).





TED Z
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  #588  
Old 12-15-2018, 08:04 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

* * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * *



Shown here are some of the stars in the T215-1 set





Just a tidbit of Tobacco trivia...... P. Lorillard is the oldest tobacco products manufacturer in the U.S. ?


Listed here is a breakdown of the 96 subjects in the T215-1 set with respect to their series in the T206 set...………..

150/350 Series…...Summer/Fall 1909
Mathewson (white cap)

350-only Series…...Spring/Summer1910

Bender (trees)
Byrne (St Louis)
Eddie Collins (A's)
Cree
Doolan
Dubuc
Fromme
Hartsel
Hoblitzel
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Kelley
Krause
Lord
Marquard (portrait)
McGinnity
Matty McIntyre
Miller
Mowrey
Oakes
Paskert
Purtell
Quinn
Speaker
Street (portrait)
Warhop
Wilson


350/460 Series…...Fall/Winter 1910

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
L. Doyle (bat))
Elberfeld (fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Mathewson (dark cap)
Harry McIntyre
Mullin(bat)
Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Pelty (vertical)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Frank Smith
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Jeff Sweeney
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (pitching)
Willetts
Wiltse (pitching)
Cy Young (glove)


460-only Series…...Winter 1910/Spring 1911

Ball (Cleveland)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arm at side)
Chance (batting)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
L. Doyle (portrait)
Ford
Herzog
Hummel
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers
Murray (portrait)
Oldring (bat)
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)



OK, given the above list and the trades which resulted in new teams in the subjects captions (see post #580), let's see who is the Net54 genius
that can logically figure out the 1st series T215-1 cards which were issued in 1910.

And, as a result we will identify which cards were issued in 1912.....besides these 15 whose team changed from their T206 counterpart...…

Byrne Pittsburgh
Harry Davis Cleveland
Donlin (bat) Pittsburg
Griffith (bat) Washington
Hartsel Toledo
Herzog New York NL
Huggins (portrait) St Louis NL
Lord Chicago AL
Harry McIntyre Chicago NL
Matty McIntyre Chicago AL
Mowrey St Louis NL
Oakes St Louis NL
Frank Smith Cincinnati
Steinfeldt (bat) St. Louis NL
Cy Young (glove) Boston NL





TED Z
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Last edited by tedzan; 12-16-2018 at 11:37 AM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #589  
Old 12-16-2018, 05:18 AM
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Hi Ted, isn't there a RED CROSS Bresnahan batting in the 350 Series?
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  #590  
Old 12-16-2018, 11:08 AM
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Sean

The Bresnahan that you are referring to is found only in the T215-2 set. I have never seen a T215 Bresnahan (with bat) with a BROWN caption.

I always double-check my T215-1 data by referring to the PIRATE set of cards (which are a known quantity, and are essentially a mirror image
of the T215-1 cards).


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TED Z
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  #591  
Old 12-16-2018, 02:00 PM
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Okay, thanks Ted.
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  #592  
Old 12-22-2018, 10:02 PM
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

You're welcome, Sean

Ole buddy, we both like to do T-card runs, so it behooves you to check-in with me regarding whether certain front/back combos exist.

Otherwise you'll find yourself on a "wild goose" chase for cards that don't really exist.


TED Z
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  #593  
Old 12-23-2018, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
You're welcome, Sean

Ole buddy, we both like to do T-card runs, so it behooves you to check-in with me regarding whether certain front/back combos exist.

Otherwise you'll find yourself on a "wild goose" chase for cards that don't really exist.


TED Z
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Touche Ted, I'll take you up on your offer. I'm currently stuck on three back runs. I need a T215 RED CROSS for each one.

Bresnahan batting, which you told me only exists in a Type-2;
Street catching, which I believe is in both the Type-1 and Type-2 varieties;
Merkle fielding, which you've said is a Type-1 card. Does it also come as a Type-2?
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  #594  
Old 12-23-2018, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Touche Ted, I'll take you up on your offer. I'm currently stuck on three back runs. I need a T215 RED CROSS for each one.

Bresnahan batting, which you told me only exists in a Type-2;
Street catching, which I believe is in both the Type-1 and Type-2 varieties;
Merkle fielding, which you've said is a Type-1 card. Does it also come as a Type-2?
Hi Sean

Correcto on Bresnahan (batting).

Double correcto on Street (catching).

Merkle (throwing....excuse me for correcting you) exists as a T215-1 card and T215-2 card.


TED Z
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  #595  
Old 12-23-2018, 07:52 PM
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Hey Ted,

Curious -- where do you get Merkle on the Type 2 checklist? I only have Merkle on the Type 1 and Pirate checklists but not on the Type 2.

If anybody has as scan of either Type 1 or 2, I'd love to see it -- I don't have confirmation for my checklists.

Cheers,
Steve
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  #596  
Old 12-23-2018, 08:38 PM
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Default Do the T215-1 cards belong in the T206 set ?

Hi Steve

Merkle (throwing) is listed as a T215-2 card in Bob Lemke's Standard Catalog of Vintage BB Cards.

And, I'm assuming this is correct since Merkle has been confirmed as a T215-1 and a PIRATE card.

Best wishes for the Holidays.


TED Z
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  #597  
Old 12-23-2018, 09:22 PM
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Thanks, Ted.
Looking at my lists again, I did have Merkle on my individual Type 1 and 2 lasts but for some reason didn't have the Type 2 on my combined list that I keep separately.

Guess I'm that much further from perfect.

Happy holidays and a happy new year to you as well!
Steve
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  #598  
Old 01-07-2019, 06:07 PM
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Default T206 Reference/Reflections...Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards?

Hey guys,
I may be wrong, but I have not seen any Sports or Non-Sports tobacco cards with either the CHESTERFIELD brand or the LUCKY STRIKE brand on them.


In 1905, ATC acquired the the R.A. Paterson Co....maker of LUCKY STRIKE cigarettes. So, how come there aren't any T206's with a LUCKY STRIKE back ?







In in 1912 (after ATC's divestiture), Liggett & Myers introduced the CHESTERFIELD cigarette brand with the slogan "They do satisfy".

Chesterfield Cigarette compact (5 5/8 " x 4 1/2 ")






Compact open.....and it's empty.....my CHESTERFIELD cigarettes went up in smoke





Anyone on this forum have any thoughts as to why these two major T-brands were not printed on insert premiums for cigarette packs ?


TED Z
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  #599  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:27 PM
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Default T206 Reference/Reflections...Any guesses why no CHESTERFIELD or LUCKY STRIKE T-cards?

Exactly 100 years after L & M introduced the CHESTERFIELD brand, we have here a very colorful advertisement (dated May 2012)
with some familiar faces from the 1947 Season.






Hey guys,
I'm still waiting for anyone on this forum who has any thoughts (or information) as to why the CHESTERFIELD and LUCKY STRIKE brands
were not printed on insert premiums for cigarette packs (circa 1909 - 1919 era) ?


TED Z
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  #600  
Old 01-08-2019, 03:55 PM
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Ted, email sent.
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