Tris Speaker rookie card question

[darwinbulldog]

I'm aware he appears on a minor league team postcard from 1908, but does Tris Speaker have anything that would qualify for most collectors as a rookie card issued before 1910?

Looking over this list:http://www.oldcardboard.com/ref/rook...ail.asp?id=329

To the best of my knowledge:
1) Novelty Cutlery postcards were issued no earlier than 1910.
2) No one has uncovered a single example of a Speaker Rose Co. postcard.
3) Speaker only appears in the C subset of E91, issued in 1910.
4) T206 is frequently cited as his rookie card, but that is of course many different sets (e.g., Polar Bear which was only issued in 1910).
5) He's also in E254 and E90-1 (which I guess didn't fit on the list linked above).
6) T206, E254, and E90-1 are all considered 1909-1911 issues.

But do we know that Tris Speaker was on any of the sheets* printed in any of these sets in 1909, or is it possible that he didn't show up until 1910?

*and/or however E254s were printed

[bcbgcbrcb]

Glenn:

Not a "card" but M101-2 was issued and dated December 2, 1909. Definitely a rookie but technically not a "rookie card". The updated year(s) of production of the Novelty Cutlery set was brought out into the open by Kevin Struss and discussed after the Old Cardboard page was compiled. I believe that there was also another Boston-area newspaper supplement issued in 1909 as well, a Hooper rookie was also part of that series.

[GasHouseGang]

Well, according to VCP they list Tris Speaker appearing on the following items listed with dates before 1910:

1907 Novelty Cutlery Postcards as you mentioned
1908 Rose Company Postcards
1909-1913 M101-2 Sporting News Supplements
1909 E90-1 American Caramel
1909 Boston Sunday Post Supplements
1909 E254 Colgan's Chips Stars Of The Diamond
1909 PX7 Sweet Caporal Domino Discs
Plus, they also list all of the T206's as 1909.

Hope this helps.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Glenn:

Not a "card" but M101-2 was issued and dated December 2, 1909. Definitely a rookie but technically not a "rookie card". The updated year(s) of production of the Novelty Cutlery set was brought out into the open by Kevin Struss and discussed after the Old Cardboard page was compiled. I believe that there was also another Boston-area newspaper supplement issued in 1909 as well, a Hooper rookie was also part of that series.

Has the Rose PC been proven to be issued over multiple years thereby making only canceled ones having specific dates? I always see the T205 listed as his rookie when listed too.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Leon

Has the Rose PC been proven to be issued over multiple years thereby making only canceled ones having specific dates?

Rose Postcards were definitely available to the public in August of 1908 and probably earlier. This is why I doubt that Speaker was ever issued. He was not a big name player at that point in his career. If he was issued, he would certainly be part of the "no team" series that was issued in 1909.

But, like most postcards, Roses were often used at different time afterwards. There was actually a Rose Postcard sold by one of the auction houses that had a postmark sometime in the 1940s!

[brianp-beme]

I believe that the of all the 'normal' issues mentioned, the printing of the T206 Speaker has been established as 1910, and it has been noted that his E90-1 card is amongst a group of Boston players that are believed to have printed in 1910. I am less sure about the E254, except that it is considered less common than many that were printed in 1909, leading one to believe it was printed later. And as mentioned, the E91C set is believed to have been isssued in 1910 at the earliest.

All the other issues mentioned are outside of my comfort zone. Sure, I could learn more about them, but then my brain would expand to the point of being able to double task, and I certaintly wouldn't want to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Brian