Post a Stupid Question - Prewar 101

[frankbmd]

I'll bet that many of you have questions about vintage prewar cards that you are embarrassed to ask. This thread is for you. Ask a stupid question or answer someone else's stupid question. And you don't need to be a noob to participate.

If successful, this thread will be a treasure trove for new converts to prewar collecting. So without further ado, let's get started with the first question.

Were T202 Triple Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

[rdwyer]

Is this Wagner real?

[Rookiemonster]

Why is a grade on a card called a flip?

[Mountaineer1999]

......

[ramram]

When you say "Pre War", which war are you talking about? There's been a bunch of them.

Rob M.

[njdunkin1]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Why is a grade on a card called a flip?

The flip, to my knowledge, refers to the little index card thingy at the top of the case. This includes everything. The grade, serial number, it's all there.

[bxb]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Is this Wagner real?

If it is 3rd party graded, be assured it is real. Nor has it been trimmed.

[Kawika]

Did Shoeless Joe ever play in the majors without shoes? If he did, how did he avoid getting spiked?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I'll bet that many of you have questions about vintage prewar cards that you are embarrassed to ask. This thread is for you. Ask a stupid question or answer someone else's stupid question. And you don't need to be a noob to participate.

If successful, this thread will be a treasure trove for new converts to prewar collecting. So without further ado, let's get started with the first question.

Were T202 Triple Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

Since I have never seen a looooong prewar cigarette, I presume they were folded, which begs the question are all high grade T202 cards creased?

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by njdunkin1

The flip, to my knowledge, refers to the little index card thingy at the top of the case. This includes everything. The grade, serial number, it's all there.

I know what it is . I was asking why is it called a flip .

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by ramram

When you say "Pre War", which war are you talking about? There's been a bunch of them.

Rob M.

When it comes to vintage bb cards, the term 'Prewar' is commonly known to refer to cards issued before the involvelment of the United States in World War 2. Thus the 1941 Play Ball, 1941 Double Play and 1941 Goudey all make the Prewar cut.

Brian (Great thread Frank)

[Brian Van Horn]

Thank you, Frank.

[pokerplyr80]

Who came up with the letters and numbers to identify prewar sets? M116, t206, e145, etc.

[brianp-beme]

One of my favorite sayings that I may have been the first in this entire world to coin..."Your stupid question is better than my stupid answer"

Brian

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Who came up with the letters and numbers to identify prewar sets? M116, t206, e145, etc.

Jefferson Burdick. What do I win?

[Snapolit1]

What does a "strong registration" mean? Is that code for a high grade?

[BengoughingForAwhile]

Before our involvement in WW II started what were pre war cards called?

[jmb]

Why is there no 51 Bowman Joe DiMaggio ?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Who came up with the letters and numbers to identify prewar sets? M116, t206, e145, etc.

David K. posted a great article recently about the man who was the founding father of the ACC system:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=224583

Brian

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Jefferson Burdick. What do I win?

Thanks for the quick response. No cash prize unfortunately.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by BengoughingForAwhile

Before our involvement in WW II started what were pre war cards called?

The old joke is 'food'.

Brian

[glchen]

why prewar and not pre-Topps? who started calling cards from this era prewar cards and when?

[Cliff Bowman]

I just received an e-mail from a General Shebango in Nigeria, who also says that he is a Prince, in which he tells me that he is in possession of a PSA 11 T206 Doyle NY N.L. with a Drum back that has a ghost image of Joe Jackson sliding into second on the front and evidence of being next to Honus Wagner on the back. He says that he wants me to either wire him $100,000 in US dollars or to give him my bank routing number and account number. Which method would you suggest?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by glchen

why prewar and not pre-Topps? who started calling cards from this era prewar cards and when?

I used to call them PreWW2 cards, but found that dealers when asked this needed me to clarify what I was looking for. I think the prewar term has been prominent for about twenty years(?).

I believe that because of the virtual stop of baseball card production due to the war, it made a better break. The Pre-Topps term is not bad, except it gets a little messy with the Bowman and Leaf mass produced cards in the years before Topps entered the market.

Brian

[atx840]

Are T206 "errors" getting out of hand

[Jobu]

It means that each of the color layers in the printing process is perfectly aligned (aka registered) with every other layer thereby creating a clear, sharp image. The more layers that are out of whack the weaker the registration (and less appealing the image ----- unless the registration is waaaaaaaay off and it moves into the realm of the freaks - this thread needs a card!).

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

What does a "strong registration" mean? Is that code for a high grade?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by ramram

When you say "Pre War", which war are you talking about? There's been a bunch of them.

Rob M.

Rob, I believe the correct answer is the "War on Poverty".

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

I know what it is . I was asking why is it called a flip .

Because one of the first employees at PSA was comedian Flip Wilson, and he was in charge of grading the first cards. The rest is history.

[Jobu]

If Honus Wagner made ALC pull his T206 because he didn't want his image to help promote tobacco use in children, then why did the Flying Dutchman let this fly 40 years later?

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Jobu

If Honus Wagner made ALC pull his T206 because he didn't want his image to help promote tobacco use in children, then why did the Flying Dutchman let this fly 40 years later?

Probably just milk duds .

Of course lets just call the grade on a card a flip after flip Wilson . That makes sense I should have known .

[bxb]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Why is a grade on a card called a flip?

I believe the term derives from removing the label and replacing it with a better one - like flipping a house for example. Adios.

[4815162342]

I have audibly laughed out loud at several posts in this thread already. Frank, you're the best as always. I don't know what's better: the War on Poverty, or Honus Wagner eating milk duds. Hilarious!

[Snapolit1]

Love a joke as much as the next guy, but a helpful answer might be more useful to a fellow collector than a joke.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Love a joke as much as the next guy, but a helpful answer might be more useful to a fellow collector than a joke.

Ok, fair point. Bryan answered your question about registration. What other questions do you have?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

What does a "strong registration" mean? Is that code for a high grade?

Registration is a printing term for how accurately an image is reproduced. Poor registration can be fuzzy, color not staying inside an outline, doubling etc... 1958 Topps is notorious for Poor registration, especially the Ted Williams card. If you get one with nice registration it's a coup.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I used to call them PreWW2 cards, but found that dealers when asked this needed me to clarify what I was looking for. I think the prewar term has been prominent for about twenty years(?).

I believe that because of the virtual stop of baseball card production due to the war, it made a better break. The Pre-Topps term is not bad, except it gets a little messy with the Bowman and Leaf mass produced cards in the years before Topps entered the market.

Brian

Thanks! Good to know.

Couldn't help but think of some more questions .... Why do Gem Mint (10) cards have off center backs? Why do so many people on ebay find cards of Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, and Honus Wagner in their attic from their grandfather? Why do these same people not bother to get these cards possibly valued in the thousands graded but are willing to do an unreserved auction starting at 99 cents?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by glchen

Why do Gem Mint (10) cards have off center backs?

Because they're allowed to by the definition of Gem Mint by the grading company. PSA permits up to 75/25 on the reverse and up to 60/40 on the front. Beckett is much tougher on centering.

[KingFisk]

Why does one series of T206 say "350-460" subjects, rather than just 460? Like when it went from 150 to 350? Trying to keep collectors off balance ?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[mechanicalman]

I see a lot of T206 Polar Bears with tobacco staining. Is this a common trait or just a coincidence? Were they packed differently than other issues? Also, why are American Beauty borders so thin?

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I see a lot of T206 Polar Bears with tobacco staining. Is this a common trait or just a coincidence? Were they packed differently than other issues? Also, why are American Beauty borders so thin?

PB's were packaged in raw tobacco packs..in contact with the tobacco.
The others were in a side pocket of the cigarette pack.

[1880nonsports]

common to the issue, yes, the slide and shell was thinner........

[bravos4evr]

Aside from the "throwing" and "Portrait" T206 cards, are there any other old Rube Waddell cards out there? I can't seem to find even a picture of one.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Did Shoeless Joe ever play in the majors without shoes? If he did, how did he avoid getting spiked?

He wore some white sox thingies that went half-way up his calves.
Several pictures of him in the T202's center panel.

[bxb]

Why are rookie cards more valuable than a player's other cards?

So what if it's his first card?

[Eric72]

Why do people pronounce Wagner's first name as HO-nuss, when there are many instances where he is referred to as Johannes, Hans, and John?

Most will disagree with me. However, I still contend that it should be pronounced HAH-nuss. To those who disagree....why?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by bxb

Why are rookie cards more valuable than a player's other cards?

So what if it's his first card?

No real good reason beside that collectors collectively determined they were more valuable. This desirability seemed to gain momentum by the mid 1980's with newer issues, and has crept into the vintage market probably within the last 12-15 years.

I always preferred the last Topps card of a player...Roberto Clemente's 1973 was a great card in my eyes, because of his untimely death it showed his entire career stats.

Brian

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

No real good reason beside that collectors collectively determined they were more valuable. This desirability seemed to gain momentum by the mid 1980's with newer issues, and has crept into the vintage market probably within the last 12-15 years.

I always preferred the last Topps card of a player...Roberto Clemente's 1973 was a great card in my eyes, because of his untimely death it showed his entire career stats.

Brian

That's why Brian's collection consists exclusively of players who had only a single card issued, both their rookie and last card rolled into one.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

That's why Brian's collection consists exclusively of players who had only a single card issued, both their rookie and last card rolled into one.

Man if it were only so. That would take up a lot less space. Space is the final downsizing frontier.

Brian

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

That's why Brian's collection consists exclusively of players who had only a single card issued, both their rookie and last card rolled into one.

Now, that is an interesting concept Frank. I really like that.
Get a PSA 10, you probably have a 1 of 1.

[Touch'EmAll]

In coin collecting the first year of a new issue is usually no big deal - unless accompanied by a real low mintage. Most rookie cards do not necessarily have low "mintages" compared to others of a player.

Someone back around the late 1970's came up with the idea of holy grail Rookie designation - and the herd followed - and is still following. OK, go get 'em tigers, get those rookie cards!