T205 DRUM vs HINDU....or, other tough front/back combos....let's talk T205's

[EvilKing00]

Hey ted, interesting. Never realized he was on mon at the time of the print. But the red name... Why red when everyone else was yellow? Every hanford name is red so it was structured

[whelenfan]

very interesting indeed, I had never noticed that before!

[tedzan]

One of my favorite T205's....Donahue was an excellent 1st Baseman. One of his biggest claims to fame was when he hit a single
to break up Ed Reulbach's bid for a No-Hitter in the 2nd game of the 1906 World Series between the two Chicago teams.

Although, I have wondered why he was pictured in the T205 set, since his Major League career ended on October 2, 1909. Does
this suggest to us how far in advance American Litho. was planning this set. Or, is Donahue simply a carry-over from the T206
set ?
Unfortunately, 2 years after this card of him was issued, Donahue suffered a very untimely death at the young age of 34.



. .


Show & tell us about your favorite T205 ballplayer.



TED Z
.

[asoriano]

In one famous incident, a waiter in a New York tavern asked Bugs how he threw his spitter. Eager to oblige, Raymond stood up and gripped a glass tumbler. "I wet these two fingers like so," he reportedly said. Then, after winding up, he threw the glass through the window. "Notice the break," he said as he sat down.

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/79835564

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Hey ted, interesting. Never realized he was on mon at the time of the print. But the red name... Why red when everyone else was yellow? Every hanford name is red so it was structured

So, the Handford card "still bothers" you, "with the red background".


Well, let me try to explain this anomaly in the printing of these twelve T205 Minor League cards. OK, this is my theory, however the circumstances are as such that I feel it warrants merit.

Most knowledgeable T205 collectors believe that the T205 Minor Leaguers were printed and issued in late 1911 (or 1912). The basis for this timeline is in the bios of 8 of these 12 subjects.
I agree with their issued timeline. But, here is the printing situation as I see it......

The fronts of these 12 cards were printed very early in 1911 when American Litho designed, printed, and issued their T80 Military Series (Feb. 1911). It's obvious from the similar stylistic
designs, the same artist created the Military Series and these T205 Minor Leaguers. For unknown reasons, sheets of these pre-printed fronts of the Minor Leaguers were then shelved until
very late in 1911, when the bios of these 12 guys were printed on the backs of these cards.

Therefore Steve, having said all that, to address your concern regarding the Hanford card..I'm showing several examples of the cards from my T80 set. Many of them have a Yellow name
box, some have a Red name box, some have a light Blue name box. My point here is that American Litho. probably printed up more than 12 Minor Leaguer's (which like the T80 cards had
Yellow, Red, Blue name boxes). How many more than 12 ? We will probably never find out. So, they finally selected the 12 we know; and, one of them happens to have a Red name box.









TED Z
.

[EvilKing00]

hey ted,

yea when I say something bothers me this is exactly it. Either there were more minor league cards (which I believe) also I think the set was never finished and there was supposed to be 400 in the baseball set.

OR some can argue the t80 and the t205's and maybe another set (bird?) are part of the same set? but id think the baseball set was just never finished.

[whelenfan]

I like how some of the minor leaguers from t205 have a "background" scene as opposed to just a plain colored background.

[tedzan]

1911 was a very ambitious year for American Lithographic in terms of Tobacco premiums. For starters they finished off the T206 set....while simultaneously
starting their Gold-Boarded sets. These T80 Military Series guys were a very early (circa Feb 1911) issue. Note the T206-type backs.








Furthermore....imagine opening a UZIT or LENOX cigarette pack in the Spring of 1911 and finding a T206 card and a T80 card in it ?


. .

. .




T201 cards

.




Fez Cigarette issue, T77 Lighthouse cards, and T205 cards





Circa 1911 Gold-Border Tobacco premiums

208 = T205 Baseball

50 = T42 Birds

30 = T43 Birds

50 = T56 Emblems

100 = T57 Fables

50 = T69 Historic Homes

50 = T80 Military Series

50 = T99 Sights & Scenes of the World


T99 Sights & Scenes of the World
. .



So, are there any more of these "Golden Gem" issues, that I may have left out ?


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

American Lithographic printed exactly 32 - T205 subjects with DRUM backs. We know this based on a T-brand pattern presented 2 years ago on this forum.

A = B = C = D connection




The key factor in this A = B = C = D equation is the Black American Beauty back. Note that the T205 subjects with the Green American Beauty back will NOT
be found with a DRUM back.


T205 DRUM checklist......32 subjects

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert

Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter

The above 5 names in bold have yet to be confirmed with a DRUM back. However, they already have been confirmed with the A - B - C pattern.
Therefore, I expect these 5 subjects will eventually be discovered with the DRUM back.



Hey guys......let's see some more T205 DRUM cards. Perhaps we can confirm these remaining 5 guys with DRUM backs.

I really appreciate your responses to this request.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

We all know that the source of DRUM cards (T205's and T206's) are from the St. Louis area.

Recently, it was brought to my attention that T205 BROAD LEAF cards may have been distributed in the Southeast.
A find of T205's included 19 cards with BROAD LEAF backs.

I'm wondering if any one else on this forum has knowledge of BROAD LEAF distribution ?


TED Z
.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

OR some can argue the t80 and the t205's and maybe another set (bird?) are part of the same set? but id think the baseball set was just never finished.

That is exactly what I think. The numbers are to close and the designs are also to deny a connection

[Yoda]

Although not in the same class as Drum & Hindu reverses, feel the Piedmont Factory 42's merit a mention, especially as I just picked a nice one of Tinker.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Although not in the same class as Drum & Hindu reverses, feel the Piedmont Factory 42's merit a mention, especially as I just picked a nice one of Tinker.

Post scans👍🏻

[tedzan]

Going for an A-B-C-D Quadruplicate run with Lobert. Looking for a DRUM card of him. The checklist below indicates that Lobert has yet to be confirmed with DRUM.
I have complete confidence in my A-B-C-D theory; therefore, I expect Lobert will eventually be discovered with the DRUM back.



. . .
... . ..


American Lithographic printed exactly 32 - T205 subjects with DRUM backs. We know this based on a T-brand pattern presented 2 years ago on this forum.

A = B = C = D connection





The key factor in this A = B = C = D equation is the Black American Beauty back. Note that the T205 subjects with the Green American Beauty back will NOT
be found with a DRUM back.


T205 DRUM checklist......32 subjects

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert

Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter


The above 5 names in bold have yet to be confirmed with a DRUM back. However, they already have been confirmed with the A - B - C pattern.
Therefore, I expect these 5 subjects will eventually be discovered with the DRUM back.



Hey guys......let's see some more T205 DRUM cards. Perhaps we can confirm these remaining 5 guys with DRUM backs.

I really appreciate your responses to this request.


TED Z
.

[gfgcom]

I know this is an old post, but I have just picked up a

neal ball Naps
jacob stahl red sox

both with the hindu back

[gfgcom]

[gfgcom]

new pick up

[Leon]

Unless those are in your collection they really shouldn't be on the front page.

We have had this discussion several times before.
.

Originally Posted by gfgcom

new pick up

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by gfgcom

Can you tell me if the ink is black or dark olive green? Thank you

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Leon

Unless those are in your collection they really shouldn't be on the front page.

We have had this discussion several times before.
.

Since this is the first confirmation of the Ball even existing with the Hindu back, and only the 2nd confirmed Stahl/Hindu (after mine), I think his post is ok in this case.

Steve

[tedzan]

Upgraded list of the 23 subjects currently confirmed with HINDU backs (with respect to their Team affiliation)......


New York Giants
-------------------
Leon Ames
Josh Devore
W. R. Dickson


Cincinnatti Reds
-------------------
Robert Bescher
Richard Egan
Harry Gaspar


Chicago Cubs
----------------
John Kling
John Pfeister


Detroit Tigers
----------------
George Simmons
Oscar Stanage


Philadelphia Phillies
-----------------------
Fred Jacklitsch
Sherwood Magee


Washington Senators
-------------------------
Walter Johnson
GeorgeMcBride


Boston Red Sox
-------------------
Eddie Cicotte
Clyde Engle
Jacob Stahl


Boston Rustlers
------------------
Bayard Sharpe


Brooklyn Superbas
----------------------
Edgar Lennox


Chicago White Sox
--------------------
Hugh Duffy


Pittsburg Pirates
--------------------
Albert Leifield


St Louis Browns
-------------------
William Bailey


Cleveland Indians
--------------------
Ball



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[brucerothstein76]

Very serious about purchasing a T205 Drum of Hindu. If any leads, please contact me at: brucerothsteindds3@gmail.com