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  #1  
Old 09-14-2014, 07:21 PM
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Ted Zanidakis
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Default WWII BB cards....1943 M. P. & Co....Show us your cards

The Michael Pressner & Co. issued this 24-card set in 1943. They were sold in Candy stores and 5 & 10-cent Department stores in the form of 8-card strips........


v................................................. .... original uncut 8-card strip (21 1/2 inches long) .................................................. ....v





Enlarged strip (split scan)







Cut singles......







Sure......you could say that these are some crude looking cards; nevertheless, in certain ways you could also say they are sort of unique.


Their ACC designation is R302-1. Which I don't understand, since these cards were not issued with GUM. Anyhow, if you have them, let's
see if we can display all 24 cards here.



TED Z
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Last edited by tedzan; 09-18-2014 at 12:47 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2014, 11:52 PM
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Looks like this one is getting off to a slow start.

R302-1 Ruffing, Red F+B.jpg
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  #3  
Old 09-15-2014, 09:14 AM
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R302-2

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Old 09-15-2014, 11:06 AM
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I sold mine to a fellow board member not long ago. But I kept some scans.

Geez, Leon, knowing that you own this issue lets me know the hobby revolution has ended
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  #5  
Old 09-15-2014, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul S View Post
I sold mine to a fellow board member not long ago. But I kept some scans.

Geez, Leon, knowing that you own this issue lets me know the hobby revolution has ended
No revolution on my part, Paul. I just like collecting with my friends!!
Here is a R302-1 from 1943 (as opposed to the R302-2 strip from '49 already shown)



and they (at least their colors and drawing method) remind me a little bit of a later version of these...
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  #6  
Old 09-15-2014, 12:02 PM
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Default 1949 M. P. & Co (R302-2) cards........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
R302-2


Since Leon posted a 1949 M.P. & Co. partial strip of cards........let's talk about this subsequent issue.

Six years after the 1943 strip cards were issued, M.P. & Co. produced a similar 25 card series. These cards differ in appearance from the 1943 series, in that the bios
on the backs of these cards are printed in Black ink (instead of Blue ink). And, the sky color on the fronts is a pale light Blue. I guess, they ran out of dark Blue ink





....



Hey guys, continue posting your 1943 cards....let's see if we can display all 24 subjects. We have attained the half-way point to this goal with 12 different cards



TED Z
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  #7  
Old 09-15-2014, 12:21 PM
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I love that set. It's the first "pre-war" set I ever completed, but even that is an issue. Those were the only set of cards issued during the war (other than exhibits) so they aren't technically pre-war.
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Old 09-15-2014, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorse9 View Post
I love that set. It's the first "pre-war" set I ever completed, but even that is an issue. Those were the only set of cards issued during the war (other than exhibits) so they aren't technically pre-war.
There were some other sets issued during the war, most aren't well known though...Here are a few Centennial Flour series cards. The top is '43 and the bottom is '44. They issued them in some other years too...



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Old 09-15-2014, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hey guys, continue posting your 1943 cards....let's see if we can display all 24 subjects. We have attained the half-way point to this goal with 12 different cards.
Here's Ott, such as he is.
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  #10  
Old 09-15-2014, 01:23 PM
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Default Thanks Paul

Now we have 13 different players on display here......11 are remaining to be seen.


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  #11  
Old 09-15-2014, 01:27 PM
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Default Leon......pardon me if I correct you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
No revolution on my part, Paul. I just like collecting with my friends!!
Here is a R302-1 from 1943 (as opposed to the R302-2 strip from '49 already shown)



and they (at least their colors and drawing method) remind me a little bit of a later version of these...


If your scan here of Joe DiMaggio is it's true colors, then this card is cannot be a 1943 issue.

The sky on the front is not a dark blue and the back printing is not blue; therefore, it must be an R302-2.

DiMaggio's R302-1 and the R302-2 cards' bio is the same; however, the difference is that the R302-2 is numbered #105.

So, I'm confused here as to which series your DiMaggio card is from ?


TED Z
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Last edited by tedzan; 09-16-2014 at 09:33 AM.
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  #12  
Old 09-15-2014, 09:32 PM
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Here's Mort Cooper to go with the previously scanned Walker Cooper.
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File Type: jpg Coopers Back.jpg (75.5 KB, 324 views)
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2014, 07:28 AM
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Default Hi Collectorsince62

Thanks for posting your 1943 Cooper brothers cards.

So far, we have identified 14 players from the 1943 set....so, there are 10 more to go to complete the display of all 24.


Continue posting your M.P. & Co. cards, guys.


TED Z
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2014, 10:48 AM
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One of the first pre-1950 sets I finished, and it wasn't all that easy. Almost all of them are either Authentic, Poor or Fair, except the DiMaggio which is a BVG 4.5.

I don't want to fill out the pictures since I have the set, but here is the Foxx:




Also, I have seen variations in back ink color on both the 1943 and 1949 issues. the only consistent I see on the 1949 set is the presence of a card number on the back. I also will note that the orientation of the backs is all over the place.
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2014, 12:40 PM
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Default 1943 Checklist........

R302-1

Ernie Bonham
Lou Boudreau
Dolf Camilli
Mort Cooper
Walker Cooper
Joe Cronin
Harry Danning
Bill Dickey
Joe DiMaggio
Bob Feller
Jimmy Foxx
Hank Greenberg

Stan Hack
Tommy Henrich
Carl Hubbell
Joe Medwick
Johnny Mize
Lou Novikoff
Mel Ott
Harold Reese
Pete Reiser
Red Ruffing
Johnny Vander Meer
Ted Williams



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  #16  
Old 09-16-2014, 02:18 PM
darkhorse9 darkhorse9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
There were some other sets issued during the war, most aren't well known though...Here are a few Centennial Flour series cards. The top is '43 and the bottom is '44. They issued them in some other years too...
I'll clarify my point:
That was the only NATIONAL set issued during the war. Yes, there were minor league sets and a few regional sets, but other than exhibits, The MP&Co is about the only game in town for major league.
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GehrigFan View Post
One of the first pre-1950 sets I finished, and it wasn't all that easy. Almost all of them are either Authentic, Poor or Fair, except the DiMaggio which is a BVG 4.5.

I don't want to fill out the pictures since I have the set, but here is the Foxx:




Also, I have seen variations in back ink color on both the 1943 and 1949 issues. the only consistent I see on the 1949 set is the presence of a card number on the back. I also will note that the orientation of the backs is all over the place.

GehrigFan

So far, at the current rate of inputs here, I don't think we'll have all 24 cards displayed. So, feel free to show some more of your cards.


I hope you don't mind me correcting your statement ......"the only consistent I see on the 1949 set is the presence of a card number on the back."

There are 4 (or 5) 1949 M.P. & Co. cards that were never printed with card numbers.




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  #18  
Old 09-16-2014, 04:19 PM
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My 1 and only:

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  #19  
Old 09-16-2014, 06:57 PM
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Here's my Reese for our virtual set.

Ted,

Since not all the 1949's have numbers on the back, is the best way to tell the difference the color of the text? Blue v. Black. I have a Hank Danning that doesn't have a number but does have black text. Does that mean it's a 1949?

Thanks a lot.

AndyH


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  #20  
Old 09-16-2014, 07:45 PM
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Default Another Feller....but different!

A little different than the last Bob Feller. The Standard Catalog suggests there could be several different variations of these cards. Can anyone shed any more light on the variations in this set?
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  #21  
Old 09-16-2014, 08:24 PM
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Default Ted Williams MP&Co Research

There has been some great discussion regarding the MP&Co sets. I have been researching these sets with regards specifically to Ted Williams. This has kind of been a "passion" of mine as these cards are often felt to be of lesser quality. I have discovered several points that seem to hold true.

1. As TedZan noted, the 1943 front version seems to consistently have a darker sky and lighter colored backstop

2. The 1949 front version is very light blue, with the backstop color almost the same as the sky

3. The ink colors for the backs varied greatly for example (using Ted Williams):
a. The 1943 back versions for Ted come in both a black and dark blue ink. These are very distinctive when held in your hand side-by-side
b. For Ted, there were several spelling errors in both the 1943 and 1949 versions,
i. Including his first name “THEORDORE” vs “THEODORE” on the 1943
ii. Several spelling errors on the 1949, “THEORORE” vs “THEODORE” and in the middle name “FRANCES” vs “FRANCIS”
c. The 1949 back ink was only noted in black to my knowledge (based on Ted Williams)

4. The 1943 versions had the “M. P. & Co., N.Y.C.” at the bottom whereas this was removed for the 1949 version cards

5. The 1949 MP&Co had both a “numbered” version and a “no number” version for many cards. I have seen many PSA/SGC labeled cards with 1943 on the flip when the card is actually a 1949 no number version.

6. The paragraph formation of the 1943 and 1949 sets varied; esp how the player name and position was listed

The photos below illustrate most all of these variations. I own nearly all of these variations for Ted Williams, with the exception the 1943 blue ink back “Theordore”. All my cards are either PSA of SGC graded, from SGC/PSA Authentic x2, PSA1, PSA2.5, PSA5 x2, SGC 5.5.

Please, if there are further discussions on Ted I would love to hear about them. I cannot say what other cards of either set would hold to these "Ted Williams Rules".

Thanks for reading,
Dave
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1943 MP&Co Front.jpg (15.2 KB, 303 views)
File Type: jpg 1943 MP&Co Back1.jpg (8.2 KB, 302 views)
File Type: jpg 1943 MP&Co Back2.jpg (14.0 KB, 303 views)
File Type: jpg 1943 MP&Co Back3.jpg (11.9 KB, 301 views)
File Type: jpg 1943 MP&Co Back4.jpg (9.4 KB, 303 views)
File Type: jpg 1949 MP&Co Front.jpg (12.9 KB, 304 views)
File Type: jpg 1949 MP&Co Back1.jpg (9.3 KB, 301 views)
File Type: jpg 1949 MP&Co Back2.jpg (9.5 KB, 305 views)
File Type: jpg 1949 MP&Co Back3.jpg (6.6 KB, 303 views)

Last edited by Harford20; 09-16-2014 at 08:28 PM.
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  #22  
Old 09-17-2014, 08:45 AM
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Default Hi Andy

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe View Post
Here's my Reese for our virtual set.

Ted,

Since not all the 1949's have numbers on the back, is the best way to tell the difference the color of the text? Blue v. Black.

I have a Hank Danning that doesn't have a number but does have black text. Does that mean it's a 1949?

Thanks a lot.

AndyH


.

Before I answer your question, let me mention that "Hank" Danning is a typo error. It should read "Harry" Danning.

So, the answer to your question is absolutely NO. Harry Danning exists only in the 1943 set. His Major Lge. career ended in 1942;
therefore, he was not included in the 1949 set.

Contrary to what I've noted in an earlier post here, there appears to be no consistency in the the bio text color in the 1943 cards.
Approx. 95-99 % of the 1943 cards that I have (or have seen) are printed with BLUE ink. On occasion, a BLACK ink 1943 card will surface.

Whatever, it's a strange set.

TED Z
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  #23  
Old 09-17-2014, 08:53 AM
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[url=https://flic.kr/p/aYkdra]
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  #24  
Old 09-17-2014, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harford20 View Post
There has been some great discussion regarding the MP&Co sets. I have been researching these sets with regards specifically to Ted Williams. This has kind of been a "passion" of mine as these cards are often felt to be of lesser quality. I have discovered several points that seem to hold true.

1. As TedZan noted, the 1943 front version seems to consistently have a darker sky and lighter colored backstop

2. The 1949 front version is very light blue, with the backstop color almost the same as the sky

3. The ink colors for the backs varied greatly for example (using Ted Williams):
a. The 1943 back versions for Ted come in both a black and dark blue ink. These are very distinctive when held in your hand side-by-side
b. For Ted, there were several spelling errors in both the 1943 and 1949 versions,
i. Including his first name “THEORDORE” vs “THEODORE” on the 1943
ii. Several spelling errors on the 1949, “THEORORE” vs “THEODORE” and in the middle name “FRANCES” vs “FRANCIS”
c. The 1949 back ink was only noted in black to my knowledge (based on Ted Williams)

4. The 1943 versions had the “M. P. & Co., N.Y.C.” at the bottom whereas this was removed for the 1949 version cards

5. The 1949 MP&Co had both a “numbered” version and a “no number” version for many cards. I have seen many PSA/SGC labeled cards with 1943 on the flip when the card is actually a 1949 no number version.

6. The paragraph formation of the 1943 and 1949 sets varied; esp how the player name and position was listed

The photos below illustrate most all of these variations. I own nearly all of these variations for Ted Williams, with the exception the 1943 blue ink back “Theordore”. All my cards are either PSA of SGC graded, from SGC/PSA Authentic x2, PSA1, PSA2.5, PSA5 x2, SGC 5.5.

Please, if there are further discussions on Ted I would love to hear about them. I cannot say what other cards of either set would hold to these "Ted Williams Rules".

Thanks for reading,
Dave

Dave

Great info here on the variations of the Ted Williams cards. Thanks for posting this.

I especially appreciate your........
"5. The 1949 MP&Co had both a “numbered” version and a “no number” version for many cards. I have seen many PSA/SGC labeled
cards with 1943 on the flip when the card is actually a 1949 no number version."


Furthermore,
the Grading Company's are not aware of all the printing anomalies that exist with these cards. For example, my observation of certain 1943 cards
with Pale Blue sky color and lacking Blue ink bio text is simply the result of MP & Co. missing the final BLUE ink application in their printing process.


TED Z
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  #25  
Old 09-17-2014, 09:37 AM
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Ted,

Thanks for clearing this up for me regarding my Danning card. I appreciate it.

AndyH
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  #26  
Old 09-17-2014, 04:17 PM
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Default WWII BB cards....1943 M. P. & Co....Show us your cards

OK guys, with the recent new pictures, we now have 18 subjects of the 24 on display in this thread.
There are only 6 subjects that have yet to be posted, and they are........


Lou Boudreau
Dolph Camilli
Stan Hack
Carl Hubbell
Lou Novikoff
Pete Reiser



TED Z
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  #27  
Old 09-18-2014, 01:02 PM
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Default WWII BB cards....1943 M. P. & Co....Show us your cards

Here is this 24-card set in it's strip format as it was sold to the public. I acquired the strip (A) shown here 26 years ago for less than $20.
Currently, these uncut 8-card strips in decent condition are selling for anywhere from $500 - $1000.

Strip A........

v................................................. .... original uncut 8-card strip (21 1/2 inches long) .................................................. ....v




Strip B........

MIZE - REISER - HACK - NOVIKOFF - CAMILLI - RUFFING - HUBBELL - GREENBERG


Strip C........

BOUDREAU - M. COOPER - WILLIAMS - DICKEY - FOXX - FELLER - OTT - W. COOPER



TED Z
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Last edited by tedzan; 09-18-2014 at 07:44 PM.
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  #28  
Old 09-18-2014, 02:18 PM
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Since Stan Hack has not yet made an appearance, I offer a scan of my copy. It's not a bad scan, the card is actually that bad.
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  #29  
Old 09-18-2014, 05:09 PM
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Default Player Order

Ted, the order of players in "Strip C" is:

Boudreau
Mort Cooper
Williams
Dickey
Foxx
Feller
Ott
Walker Cooper
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  #30  
Old 09-18-2014, 07:48 PM
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Default Thank you, Lyman

I included your info regarding Strip C in my above post.

Take care my good friend,

TED Z
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  #31  
Old 09-18-2014, 08:04 PM
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Default WWII BB cards....1943 M. P. & Co....Show us your cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfallen View Post
Since Stan Hack has not yet made an appearance, I offer a scan of my copy. It's not a bad scan, the card is actually that bad.
dlfallen

It looks to me that your Stan Hack card is missing BLUE ink (on both the front and the back).

Otherwise, it's an alright card.....nice find.

Thanks for posting it, we now have only 5 subjects remaining to complete the display of this 24 card set.


TED Z
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  #32  
Old 09-19-2014, 04:07 PM
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Default 1949 M. P. & Co (R302-2) checklist........

100.....Lou Boudreau
101.....Ted Williams
102.....Johnny Kerr
103.....Bob Feller
104..... unknown
105.....Joe DiMaggio
106.....Harold Reese
107.....Ferris Fain
108.....Andy Pafko
109.....Del Ennis
110.....Ralph Kiner
111.....Nippy Jones
112.....Del Rice
113.....Hank Sauer
114.....Gil Coan
115.....Eddie Joost
116.....Alvin Dark
117.....Larry Berra
118..... unknown
119.....Bob Lemon
120..... unknown
121.....Johnny Pesky
122.....Johnny Sain
123.....Hoot Evers
124.....Larry Doby
-------Jimmy Foxx
-------Tommy Henrich
-------Al Kozar


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  #33  
Old 09-21-2014, 11:42 AM
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Here are the 4 very loved cards that I have. I don't know if I am adding any, but I don't recall seeing the Hubbell in this thread.
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File Type: jpg 1943 MP&Co.jpg (75.9 KB, 240 views)
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  #34  
Old 09-21-2014, 07:54 PM
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Default Hi Mike

Thanx for adding the Hubbell card to this display.

Now, there are only 4 remaining subjects to complete this 1943 set........

Lou Boudreau
Dolph Camilli
Lou Novikoff
Pete Reiser



TED Z
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  #35  
Old 09-30-2014, 07:07 PM
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Default Boudreau

I forgot that I had the Boudreau in another place, so here it is. 3 more to go.
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  #36  
Old 06-04-2015, 03:05 PM
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Default 1943 M.P. & Co Back Variations

I have a handful of 1943 M.P. & Co Joe DiMaggios and I am trying to figure out the different variations. It seems like the 1949s might either be the numbered versions or the light colored sky versions. I have a variation with teal font type on the back. The only other one I have seen was a previously posted Bob Feller. Also, the version with the player's position (without team name) has a variation with "Made in the USA" and one without. Anyone know anything about these?
JD - Made in USA.jpg

JD1.jpg

JD2.jpg

pr302mandp1943dimaggio.jpg

Feller - Teal Back.jpg
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  #37  
Old 10-03-2019, 10:01 AM
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Something well known to collectors of the R302-1 (1943) and R302-2 (1949) sets is that all 24 images from 1943 were recycled to generate the 1949 set.

I just posted an article to the SABR blog that shows you each of the "twins" side by side for the entire set and also provides some bonus background info on the issuer of the sets. Part scholarly, part silly, like most of my stuff, but you may enjoy it.

https://sabrbaseballcards.blog/2019/...card-set-ever/
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:11 AM
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File Type: jpg ted 001.jpg (71.8 KB, 82 views)
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:16 AM
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A better scan of the back
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Old 10-07-2019, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgpete View Post
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Great looking Teddy!! I may have to pick up a few these they have such a neat look to them.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:27 PM
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Default WWII BB cards....1943 M. P. & Co....Show us your cards

Hi Ron (rgpete)

Great looking Ted Williams card.

Ted's middle name is incorrect on his 1943 M. P. & Co. card.
It should be Samuel. Was it corrected on his 1949 card ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Ron (rgpete)



Great looking Ted Williams card.



Ted's middle name is incorrect on his 1943 M. P. & Co. card.

It should be Samuel. Was it corrected on his 1949 card ?





TED Z



T206 Reference

.
They did not correct in 1949. Just changed Francis to Frances!!

Note that 1940 Play Ball also had Francis error as did many contemporaneous news sources.

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