Consignor Frustrations - Probstein

[KC Doughboy]

Leon, hopefully this is the appropriate forum for this topic. I'm sorry if it's not.

Today is the end of 6 weeks since Probstein received my cards and they still don't have them all listed!

I watched the number of consignors begin to explode on eBay and was pleased with the success a few of them were having. I researched a couple of them; talked to some members here on Net54, and exchanged messages with folks from PWCC and Probstein.

I decided to give Probstein a try so I loaded up a box. I wanted to see how successful they were with different types of cards, so I included graded cards, both high-end and middle of the road slabs. I sent an assortment of raw from 1951 - 1968. Included were 30-50 card lots of '52, '53, '55 Topps. I sent 10-12 mid-grade raw Mickey Mantle cards. I sent very high grade lots of '59 & '60 Topps, etc. Overall I packaged a couple thousand dollars worth of cards.

One of the reasons I chose Probstein was because Wes told me he usually has the cards listed within 2-3 business days. He explained that graded cards they receive get higher priority, but that the 2-3 business days was typical. (In fairness to Wes/Probstein, I didn't mail box to Wes' attention, just to main address. This caused a couple day delay)

Probstein received my cards the morning of Oct. 21st. Forty-One higher grade slabs were listed on Oct. 22nd. Then fifteen raw cards (mostly Mantle cards) were listed on Oct. 29th (most worth $40 - $150 each).

Since then... NADA... NOTHING... ZERO...
Only thing I've had since the beginning of November are responses to my emails explaining that they've been getting tons of graded cards to list, so mine aren't as high priority... that they are getting ready to list my other cards... that they have to group some of them... and a bunch of other excuses.

My experience with Probstein has been terrible. I wonder if they just got too big to give customer service or to honor their word? I packaged a larger lot of cards to send to Probstein, assuming the trial run went well... HAHA... not happening now.

The name "Probstein" now means "empty promises" to me. I'll update this thread as my experience continues.

Please let me know if you know of any consignors who actually do what they say. I look forward to finding a quality consignor. I hope you choose better than I did!



-This thread is not intended to discuss the risk/frequency with consignors of shilling, fake bids, fraud, etc. That is discussed in great depth on this message board. It is rather to share my experience and ask others for guidance in selecting another consignor- Er.ic Matt.hews

[h2oya311]

Wish I could help. I have only consigned cards to big AHs and done my own eBay listings.

With the consignment rates they offer, you're essentially doing better than if you were to list on eBay yourself (even w/out the shilling). I think that's awesome. The best way to make that business model work is sales volume and great customer service. It sounds like they may be short-staffed if they are falling behind on both.

Sorry for your frustration. Unlike eBay (w/ no competition), probstein and PWCC could certainly use a bit...if I didn't have a decent job already, I'd consider doing that to make a living and try to steal some market share...and I'd even write card descriptions!!!

[KC Doughboy]

Thanks Derek... I'm sure they will soon face some more competition!

[CW]

Have you tried calling Rick? I have never consigned with him, but I've heard on the CU forums that he will typically answer calls. With one phone call you may not only get an answer regarding why your cards haven't been listed yet, but you might also "light the fire" so your cards get some attention and get listed soon. You shouldn't have to do that, but it might be a somewhat simpler solution than email.

[stlcardsfan]

I would ask him to send your other cards back. Sounds like you got the most out of what you sent him already.

[Harliduck]

Eric...the shilling posts on the main forum are enough of a turn-off for me with Probstein (I quit buying from him)...but I gotta ask...did the items that were listed meet your expectations? Just curious...

[KC Doughboy]

Hey John,
There were 2-3 that I was pleasantly surprised with the sales price. The majority sold for about what I expected. Then there were 6-7 that sold 25%-40% below what I expected.
Overall the prices were ok.

[bnorth]

I have never or do I plan to consign any cards, but I am curious on how much you are charged for Ricks service. As an example you send in a card and it sells for a $1000.00 on eBay. How much do you actually get after all fees and unless it is 1 flat rate what are the fees?
Thanks for any info.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Just a thought...prolly should have full names with post here? Jes sayin

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Just a thought...prolly should have full names with post here? Jes sayin

Not only probably but definitely. The original poster is Er.ic Mat.thews.

And this can be a polite reminder about what is probably the most important "rule" on this board, which is having your full name in your post if you give an opinion of someone or a company. Here is what it says at the top of every page of this board...

If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post.

[KC Doughboy]

Sorry about that. I added my full name in my original post. Because I was listing just the facts about my experience and not offering any opinions, I didn't think the full name rule applied.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have never or do I plan to consign any cards, but I am curious on how much you are charged for Ricks service. As an example you send in a card and it sells for a $1000.00 on eBay. How much do you actually get after all fees and unless it is 1 flat rate what are the fees?
Thanks for any info.

I've seen the rates they've offered before and I don't know how they do it (along with PWCC), especially with Ebay no longer offering a sliding scale on their fees.

After Ebay and Paypal their margins must be tiny, and with overhead and the number of people they are apparently employing, I don't understand how they are not drowning in debt....................unless they have a special deal with Ebay the rest of us normals don't get.

[KC Doughboy]

Probstein has finally responded to me. I guess they don't want cards that are worth less than $25.00.

Once I get my cards back, it will have been 2 months and 2,000 miles and for what?

"Eric ,
I can ship your stuff back on Monday . I should of been more clear we are looking for individual items that will sell for more than 25. It takes time to sit under a lamp and grade vintage cards . Putting them in lots isn't something we typically do. I'll get it out Monday ."

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have never or do I plan to consign any cards, but I am curious on how much you are charged for Ricks service. As an example you send in a card and it sells for a $1000.00 on eBay. How much do you actually get after all fees and unless it is 1 flat rate what are the fees?
Thanks for any info.

Ben, here are the most recent rates that Probstein charges:

over $2500 , you get 90% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw $1000-$2499 , you get 89% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw 100-$999 , you get 88% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw $50-99 , you get 87% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw $25-49 , you get 86% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
below $25 , you get 85% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Ben, here are the most recent rates that Probstein charges:

over $2500 , you get 90% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw $1000-$2499 , you get 89% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw 100-$999 , you get 88% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw $50-99 , you get 87% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
btw $25-49 , you get 86% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )
below $25 , you get 85% of the sales price ( probstein123 pays all ebay and paypal fees )

Thank you Larry, Now I understand why people sell through consigners. In most cases it is as cheap as listing on eBay yourself and also has the added benefit of not having to deal with buyers. I always assumed you got a % after eBay/paypal fees.

[Rich Klein]

Rick Post on the CU board that he and PWCC are EBay "preferred" dealers (i don't think that is the correct term) and I bet they get a special rate.

Rich

[lahmejoon]

Wow, that's pretty reasonable. I've never consigned anything before, but it would seem that with the premium his auctions tend to get, a seller could come out the same or better with less hassle. What is PWCC's pricing structure?

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by lahmejoon

Wow, that's pretty reasonable. I've never consigned anything before, but it would seem that with the premium his auctions tend to get, a seller could come out the same or better with less hassle. What is PWCC's pricing structure?

Here are PWCC's rates off of their website:

Single Graded Cards (PSA, SGC, BVG, BGS)
Auction Sale Price Rate
$0 - $100* $6 + 10%*
$100 - $200* 15.0%*
$200 - $1,000 13.5%
$1,000 - $2,000 12.0%
$2,000 - $3,000 11.0%
$3,000 - $4,000 10.0%
$4,000 - $5,000 9.0%
$5,000 - up 8.0%
* Ask for special PSA 'Set Break' & volume discounts for these rate categories: brent@pwccauctions.com


Single Ungraded Cards*, Small Group Lots**, Memorabilia***
Auction Sale Price Rate
Minimum $50 Auction Value
$50 - $100 $10 + 10%
$100 - $200 20.0%
$200 - $500 17.5%
$500 - $2,000 15%
$2,000 - $5,000 12.5%
$5,000 - up 10%
* Singles graded by companies other than PSA, SGC, or BVG/BGS are considered ungraded
** Small group lots can contain up to 50 raw or graded cards per lot
*** All memorabilia must be authenticated by PSA/DNA, JSA, UDA, or Steiner

Complete Sets & Large Group Lots
Auction Sale Price Rate
Minimum $250 Auction Value
$250 - $500 $50 + 10%
$500 - $1,000 20.0%
$1,000 - $2,000 15.0%
$2,000 - $5,000 12.5%
$5,000 - up 10%

Unless PWCC and Probstein are getting a better deal from ebay, they pay 8% (after their TRS discount) to ebay for their final value fees. Depending on how they have set up their incoming payments through paypal, they are likely paying between 1-2%/per dollar on their incoming paypal payments.

[Exhibitman]

That PWCC hard minimum plus % will kill you on lower value cards. If a card sells for $10, my cost is 70% [$6 + $1 = $7/$10 = 70%]. That is like the old Teletrade. At $20 it still costs me $6 + $2 = $8 = 40%--which is more than major auction house commission plus buyer premium level. If a card sells for $35--which is a pretty strong sale--it costs me $6 + $3.50 = $9.50/$35 = 27.14%

[peterose4hof]

Teletrade! Wow, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. I can still hear in my head the robotic voice, "Welcome to Teletrade".

[KC Doughboy]

For anyone considering using Probstein, please read my story...

And it continues...

They have now had my cards for over 2 months and because they don't want any cards under $25 in value, they are supposed to be mailing back the my 500 remaining 1952's, 1953's etc.

Getting my cards back from Probstein has been like getting them sold.

"We will get them in the mail to you this week."
..."We are shipping them Monday and we'll give you the tracking number."
..."the guy who does shipping is gone so I can't get a tracking number for you."
..."You will have them by Thursday at the latest, if not Wednesday."

The result... it's Thursday and all I hear are Crickets... no cards, no tracking number, no return phone calls, no return e-mail!!

My advice to anyone considering Probstein,
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

[jhs5120]

I'm sorry this happened to you, I try to sell raw cards and lots myself. I don't think Rick really is interested in spending a couple of hours grading raw cards only to make a few bucks on the consignment fees. I agree, he should have told you this when he received your order and he definitely should have sent your cards back by now, but I try to reserve graded cards and higher priced memorabilia for Rick.

Jason

I'm not sure I understand the process - if "they don't want any cards under $25 in value", how did these cards reach Probstein in the first place? Aren't consignments pre-approved by Probstein before they're shipped to him? Did he pre-approve these cards and then change his mind?

[Matthew80]

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

I'm not sure I understand the process - if "they don't want any cards under $25 in value", how did these cards reach Probstein in the first place? Aren't consignments pre-approved by Probstein before they're shipped to him? Did he pre-approve these cards and then change his mind?

+1

Did he agreed to take these on knowing what he was getting in advance?

This has been a very educational post. Thanks to all who are sharing thoughts and experiences. Sorry, Eric, for the frustration, but take solace your sharing is hitting home with me if nobody else.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by KC Doughboy

They have now had my cards for over 2 months and because they don't want any cards under $25 in value...

Rick has stated before that he does indeed take cards under $25 in value, so it sounds like he's giving you the runaround. I could post a link to that thread, but we all know Rick is a liar anyway, so what does it matter? Besides, if Rick didn't want them, he should have mailed them back as soon as he received them, not keep them for two months and then say he doesn't want them.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Rick has stated before that he does indeed take cards under $25 in value, so it sounds like he's giving you the runaround. I could post a link to that thread, but we all know Rick is a liar anyway, so what does it matter? Besides, if Rick didn't want them, he should have mailed them back as soon as he received them, not keep them for two months and then say he doesn't want them.

Unless you have a link to Rick saying he takes any and all cards under $25 in value, I'm not sure how that's relevant.

And we don't "all know Rick is a liar" - I don't know him, but that's not how I'd characterize him based on what I've read. I doubt it's even a majority opinion on Net54.

Also, unless my math is fuzzy, "he" hasn't kept anything for "two months" (or "over two months"). It's getting close to that, but why exaggerate? (And I put "he" in quotations because, as I understand it, Rick operates a business with employees, and may be ultimately but not directly responsible for the problem)

If the cards were sent unsolicited and outside the parameters Rick has established, I could understand things getting confused, resulting in delays. 6+ weeks is too long, but mistakes happen. If a dozen more consignors come on here with similar stories, I might be alarmed, but so far I'm not reading anything here (or on the "shill" threads) that would dissuade me from doing business with Probstein.

This is in no way meant as a dig against the OP, but I'm always amazed at how often people come on this site and allege things about other people, and most posters seem to take the allegations at face value. There's always bias, there's always another side to every story. A thread like this is pretty meaningless to me without corroboration, support and (most importantly) evidence that it's part of a bigger or more widespread problem.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

Unless you have a link to Rick saying he takes any and all cards under $25 in value, I'm not sure how that's relevant.

Here's your link...

http://forums.collectors.com/message...53&STARTPAGE=9

"You get 95% after net profit is determined ( post ebay and paypal fees ) - if net profit is above the $25 mark and you get 90% after net profit is determined ( post ebay and paypal fees ) - if net profit below the $25 mark."

That statement infers that he accepts consignments for cards under $25.

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

And we don't "all know Rick is a liar" - I don't know him, but that's not how I'd characterize him based on what I've read. I doubt it's even a majority opinion on Net54.

Seriously, Dude? Have you read any of the Probstein Panky threads?

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

Also, unless my math is fuzzy, "he" hasn't kept anything for "two months" (or "over two months"). It's getting close to that, but why exaggerate?

Exaggerate it? Ok 54 days, not 2 months. Is that better? Wouldn't want to exaggerate it

[jg8422]

Originally Posted by KC Doughboy

Leon, hopefully this is the appropriate forum for this topic. I'm sorry if it's not.

Today is the end of 6 weeks since Probstein received my cards and they still don't have them all listed!

I watched the number of consignors begin to explode on eBay and was pleased with the success a few of them were having. I researched a couple of them; talked to some members here on Net54, and exchanged messages with folks from PWCC and Probstein.

I decided to give Probstein a try so I loaded up a box. I wanted to see how successful they were with different types of cards, so I included graded cards, both high-end and middle of the road slabs. I sent an assortment of raw from 1951 - 1968. Included were 30-50 card lots of '52, '53, '55 Topps. I sent 10-12 mid-grade raw Mickey Mantle cards. I sent very high grade lots of '59 & '60 Topps, etc. Overall I packaged a couple thousand dollars worth of cards.

One of the reasons I chose Probstein was because Wes told me he usually has the cards listed within 2-3 business days. He explained that graded cards they receive get higher priority, but that the 2-3 business days was typical. (In fairness to Wes/Probstein, I didn't mail box to Wes' attention, just to main address. This caused a couple day delay)

Probstein received my cards the morning of Oct. 21st. Forty-One higher grade slabs were listed on Oct. 22nd. Then fifteen raw cards (mostly Mantle cards) were listed on Oct. 29th (most worth $40 - $150 each).

Since then... NADA... NOTHING... ZERO...
Only thing I've had since the beginning of November are responses to my emails explaining that they've been getting tons of graded cards to list, so mine aren't as high priority... that they are getting ready to list my other cards... that they have to group some of them... and a bunch of other excuses.

My experience with Probstein has been terrible. I wonder if they just got too big to give customer service or to honor their word? I packaged a larger lot of cards to send to Probstein, assuming the trial run went well... HAHA... not happening now.

The name "Probstein" now means "empty promises" to me. I'll update this thread as my experience continues.

Please let me know if you know of any consignors who actually do what they say. I look forward to finding a quality consignor. I hope you choose better than I did!



-This thread is not intended to discuss the risk/frequency with consignors of shilling, fake bids, fraud, etc. That is discussed in great depth on this message board. It is rather to share my experience and ask others for guidance in selecting another consignor- Er.ic Matt.hews

I have consigned with Probstein on 2 different occasions for a total of appx. 15k worth of sales. He listed my cards quickly and even allowed me to say when I would like them listed. Within 24-48 hours of the auctions ending I was emailed a spreadsheet with final prices, fees, etc. I had a check within 3-5 days thereafter. All of my items were graded cards and totaled about 300 items. I have had nothing but positive transactions with Rick and would still strongly recommend his services.

I have been to Rick's office in North Jersey and met him personally. We only chatted for about 20 minutes while dropping off items I was consigning with him. I was impressed with his demeanor and his willingness to chat with me and to show me some of his high-end items. Obviously I do not know him on a personal level, but I have been impressed with him on a business level.

Regardless of my experience, I admit the cards should have been returned to you within a few days of him receiving them. However, after seeing his office and storage area, I can see how busy he is and the sheer volume he deals with. That is his issue though and should not be the cosigners problem.

Jeff Gross

[KC Doughboy]

Update: My cards did arrive safely on Friday and all cards were accounted for.

In response to a couple questions earlier in this thread...

First, I dealt almost exclusively with Wes as he was the one (assigned?) to handle my cards.

Before I ever decided to send them, I asked about what cards to send, etc. I was told that they will typically put cards less than $10 into lots and sell those worth more than $10 as individual cards.

Of the cards he returned to me, there were numerous higher value cards, including a Mantle and several high # 1952 Topps.

When my cards first arrived, Rick personally pulled all of the graded cards and had them listed within 48 hours as 7 day auctions. About 4-5 days after the auctions ended, I had a check in the mail along with a detailed spreadsheet.
The second week they listed most of my raw Mantles, Clemente RC, Koufax RC, etc and again I received the check and spreadsheet about 4-5 days after the auctions ended.
That was the end of listing my cards and the end of communication with me.

I believe that Rick's business model is changing. I believe he has gotten busy enough that he can thumb his nose at any cards that are not quick and simple to sell, ie slabs and Mantles.
I don't blame him if this is where he makes his money and it's not cost effective to deal with any other cards.
I do blame him for failing to tell customers that they are changing philosophy.
I do blame him for failing to communicate.
I do blame him for failing to honor his word.

If you have graded cards or Mantle cards I believe Probstein will do a good job and do it quickly. However, if I'm only listing those cards for sale, I would do it myself. It doesn't take me very long to list a few cards and the potential 2-3% I'd save in eBay fees is wiped out by shipping and insurance fees.

Hopefully this answers all the questions that were posed.

Eric Matthews