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  #1  
Old 03-14-2013, 11:49 AM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
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Default Desert Shield

Hi All,

I am relatively new to this side of the board, but usually post on the Pre-War side. I have looked through the various Desert Shield threads here & on other forums but have not been able to determine if there are "many" or in fact any variations on cards within this set.

Key Man Collectibles (on his website) listed 20 or so variations of the regular Topps issue. I have not been able to verify any variations noted with the cards I own - excluding the checklists which don't have the foil shield so you don't really know which set they come from.

In addition, I have not been able to find any of the bold/faded A*B* variations between the A* & B* print sheets. In fact I have not found any legitimate Desert Shield cards with a A*B* print sheet designation on the reverse near the Topps copyright designation. It is almost as if Topps corrected the variations when they printed Desert Shield cards.

Thoughts on this guys....can anyone find any of the known variations? Does anyone have the A*B* Bold/Faded variations?

Thanks guys.

Z Wheat
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2013, 12:28 PM
novakjr novakjr is offline
David Nova.kovich Jr.
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My guess is that they were all printed in one factory, in one shot. So you probably wouldn't have any variations.. And more than likely they weren't printed with the initial release, thus the corrections.

Last edited by novakjr; 03-14-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2013, 12:56 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
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Default 1991 Desert Shield

I tend to agree with David. I have that set, and the regular 1991 set. I have been collecting oddities, variations and errors for a long time in all my Topps sets, and think that no set has more of them, front an back, than the regular 1991 set, which was the 40th anniversary issue. It is a mess from a printing standpoint.

But I think it likely the Desert Shield run was one time with no changes in cards or the printing process. Also, I have had for a long time an ongoing ebay search for "Topps 1991 variation(s)" and never pulled up a listing for a Desert Shield card. It's a great question though and maybe someone else has looked more closely

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 03-14-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2013, 03:51 PM
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cardinalcollector cardinalcollector is offline
Randy Trierweiler
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I agree with David and Al. It wouldn't be logical at all for any variations to exist in the Desert Shield set. I have all the Cardinals, there are no A*B* variations, and all cards seem to be of the "corrected" variety.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:14 PM
mcadams mcadams is offline
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Default Lonnie

Interesting topic. I don't collect all of the DS set, but am heavily involved in completing several of the team sets, including the Atlanta Braves. I had a series of email exchanges with PSA several years ago discussing one of the more well known '91 Topps Variations, the Lonnie Smith 136G error.

If you recall, on the back of the original card, Lonnie Smith's 1990 stat line reads that he played 136 games in 1990. The card was later corrected to read that he played in 135 games in 1990. Both versions of the card are easily found from the base 1991 set. However, after searching for over a decade, I could not find the 135 version in the Desert Shield set. I have over 50 copies of the Lonnie Smith DS card, and they are all the 136G version. I also contacted several of the PSA registry players in the set and none of them had ever seen a 135 version either. Because of this information, PSA removed the 135 version from the Desert Shield composite several years ago.

Because the 135 was the corrected version, I've always believe the Desert Shield set was actually made early in Topps printing process, prior to the Lonnie Smith 135G (The "Corrected" version) being printed. I'd love to hear other thoughts.
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  #6  
Old 03-15-2013, 10:34 PM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
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Default 1991 Topps Desert Shield

Mcadams,

Wouldn't the corrected version...if it exists in the Desert Shield set mean that the set was printed later in the print run or after the 1991 Topps set? I will show the variations at appear to exist in the 1991 set but aren't found in the Desert Shield set when I can tomorrow.

Z Wheat

Last edited by Zach Wheat; 08-27-2013 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:57 AM
novakjr novakjr is offline
David Nova.kovich Jr.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zach Wheat View Post
Mcadams,

Wouldn't the corrected version...if it exists in the Desert Shield set mean that the set was printed later in the print run or after the 1991 Topps set? I will show the variations at appear to exist in the 1991 set but aren't found in the Desert Shield set when I can tomorrow?

Z Wheat
You may have read that wrong. He was saying that the error(136) is the version in the the DS set.. And that the corrected(135) wasn't, leading him to believe it was from an early print run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcadams View Post
Because the 135 was the corrected version, I've always believe the Desert Shield set was actually made early in Topps printing process, prior to the Lonnie Smith 135G (The "Corrected" version) being printed. I'd love to hear other thoughts.
Corrected or not, Either way, I wouldn't expect there to be variations in the DS release. Sure in the regular issue they're variations(error, corrected, whatnot). But in terms of the DS set, whichever version it is, it's just the card..

Last edited by novakjr; 03-16-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:51 PM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novakjr View Post
You may have read that wrong. He was saying that the error(136) is the version in the the DS set.. And that the corrected(135) wasn't, leading him to believe it was from an early print run.



Corrected or not, Either way, I wouldn't expect there to be variations in the DS release. Sure in the regular issue they're variations(error, corrected, whatnot). But in terms of the DS set, whichever version it is, it's just the card..
Got it. One of the dangers of reading small print on an iPad. I will have to check the remainder of my cards. The 2 Lonnie Smith cards (Card #306) I have also have "...136 Games...".

It may be hard to verify much of what we speculate since the population of cards is so small. If the print run was in the 2,000-2,500 sets according to popular belief, then that would make the population of each card no greater than a third to quarter as numerous as some of the popular pre-war sets like the Cracker Jacks.
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  #9  
Old 03-18-2013, 10:10 AM
Zach Wheat Zach Wheat is offline
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Default Production Figures

I've sorted my variations into both the "correct" year end stats & "incorrect" year end stats that were later corrected by Topps. Variations seem to be with both correct & incorrect YE stats - but not both for the same card. Further, while I was digging for information that might help me determine when DS cards were printed I ran across a couple of articles.

The articles were both from Jan 1992 and both articles indicate higher production figures (5.4 million) for this set than has been previously presumed to exist (2,500 sets or approx. 2 million cards). An AP article published in the Sun Sentinel Jan. 1992 indicates Topps produced 5,400,00 cards for overseas delivery - but they arrived too late to be distributed. Accordingly, the Air Force sent back 1,500,00 cards to the Myrtle Beach Air Force Base - a central shipping site during the conflict - and distributed them locally, with each of the base's 3,330 active personnel receiving 30 packs. Collectors would wait outside the gates of the base trying to buy cards, which would sell at a premium as collector's knew this was a "rare" variation. This probably accounts for a lot of the cards seen in the US today.

A 2nd article in the Chicago Tribune Jan 1992 also indicates the same 5,400,00 production figure and includes comments from Timm Boyle - a Topps spokesperson - who estimated that a third to half of the 5.4 million Desert Shield baseball cards produced were returned the US. It is not clear if he is referencing only cards returned by the military due to the late delivery or if his estimate includes total cards returned by the military as well as cards saved & brought back by individual military personnel. However his comments seem to support the contention that DS cards were produced at one time and then distributed en masse. This could account for why - to date - we see only 1 "variation" of the traditional 1991 Topps set.

Just thought I would share this additional information. Comments or thoughts?


Z Wheat
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  #10  
Old 03-18-2013, 01:02 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
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Default Desert Shield

Good info Zach. It had been my impression the majority of the DS cards never made it over seas, and that many did not even make it into the military supply chain. But I have no personal knowledge or hard fact about that.

There are of course a good many DS fakes out there too and it would seem if any variations are found one would have to be sure it is an actual DS card.
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