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Old 10-20-2012, 09:37 PM
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Joshua
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Default T205...a bit of my research

I have some time this afternoon and want to share a bit of information about the T205 advertising backs. Specifically, the #'s of backs seen as a percentage of total backs. Now, keep in mind that this is NOT all t205 backs ever but as most of you know, I tend to keep information and follow the backs pretty closely. I compiled sales data from ebay, major (and some minor) auction houses, shows (rare now), and even some private sales and data provided by other t205 collectors. My methods I feel are fairly accurate and give a decent representation of the hobby but I certainly missed some things.

The first thing I will post is the last time I publicly shared information on percentages. This was from 2005. Then I will show you what I have now (through 2012). In the last 7 years several large hordes and collections have come to market and several collectors have opened their collections to me. In 2005 the sample size was just over 3100 cards. Now I have data on 22000!! I did not include blank backs in this either. At the bottom, I put a bit of my own analysis but draw your own conclusions.

So...here we go...first the cards from 2005 for those who do not remember

Advertiser Color Fact. Code # of cards seen %Total
Piedmont Blue 25 512 16.4
Polar Bear Blue 473 15.2
Sweet Cap. Red 451 14.5
Sweet Cap. Black 25 321 10.3
Sweet Cap. Black 42 309 9.9
Hassan Green 649 307 9.9
Honest Long Cut Black 307 9.9
Sovereign Green 191 6.1
Cycle Black 107 3.4
Hassan Green 30 99 3.2
American Beauty Black 17 .55
American Beauty Green 8 .26
Piedmont Blue 42 6 .19
Broadleaf Black 2 .06
Broadleaf Green 2 .06
Hindu Brown 2 .06
Drum Brown 0 .00

Total 205s taken for this research: 3114

Now the data from 2012.

Advertiser Color Fact. Code # of cards seen %Total
Piedmont Blue 25 4167 18.9
Polar Bear Blue 3524 16.0
Sweet Cap. Red 3071 14.0
Sweet Cap. Black 25 2125 9.7
Sweet Cap. Black 42 2053 9.3
Hassan Green 649 1761 8.0
Honest Long Cut Black 1739 7.9
Sovereign Green 1580 7.2
Cycle Black 718 3.3
Hassan Green 30 496 2.3
Piedmont Blue 42 205 .93
American Beauty Green 189 .86
American Beauty Black 163 .74
Broadleaf Black 80 .36
Broadleaf Green 71 .32
Hindu Brown 44 .20
Drum Brown 27 .12

Total: 22013

Looking at the two charts you can see a few things. First, the common backs remained relatively the same except the %'s. I can see that Sovereign has increased a bit due to some recent finds while Piedmont 25 has increased a great deal. It is by far the most common back. The rare backs have been selling a bit more often of late including the American Beauties. The Green has moved ahead of the Black there. Also Piedmont 42s have jumped ahead of the American Beauties. In 2005, I had only seen a handful of hindus and no drums. I knew they were around but did not have any data. A few "recent" finds (incl. the St. Louis drum find) have added a bunch of numbers to them. Drum is still the king in rarity with hindu and broadleaf green(khaki) close behind. I am still surprised I do not see Hassan 30s more often.

Lastly, I want to put the caveat out there that this is my data alone and others may disagree. That is fine and I know this is not perfect but I do FEEL that this is a good representation of the back breakdown for T205s.

Joshua
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:46 PM
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Default Thanks!!

Thanks Joshua.
I might comment more later but just want to give you a big shout out for that data. As a back collector I am very appreciative and I know others will be too.
Can you say if there are other Hindu Hof'ers known, besides Johnson? I have to say, I am a bit surprised that Hindu is much more common than Drums. (common being a very relative term as both seem to be very scarce). I think I have seen quite a few more Drums sold. Maybe the Hindus are in those long established collections that don't see daylight . thanks again!!
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:15 PM
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Default T205 Player front/back combinations?

I have always been surprised by the lack of discussion with regards to T205 player front/back combinations available compared to the T206 set.

I recently started picking up Chief Meyers T205s, and I have started a back run. I have an Honest Long Cut, Sovereign, Hassan , and Red Sweet Caporal backs so far.

I have seen ones with Piedmont, Polar Bear, and Cycle backs as well. I'm not aware of any place that lists possible player front/back combinations.

Anyone know if any other backs are available for the Chief Meyers T205?

Let me know.


Thanks,


Patrick
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:51 PM
ctownboy ctownboy is offline
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Default

Joshua,

I don't know if I was a member of this board in 2005 and if I was, I don't remember if I gave you the info on the few T205's that I own. If so, then please disregard the following.

If you would like to add my cards to your list, I would be happy to send you a private message. I only have 14 cards and the "rarest" back seems to be an Hassan green 649.

However, if I can contribute to your research, I would be glad to help,

David
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:54 PM
ethicsprof ethicsprof is offline
Barry Arnold
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Default Joshua

Many thanks for sharing this fine research.
The depth and breadth of your data in the T205 arena has been impressive for some time now. 22000 is a remarkable sampling.
With Leon, I will now spend time incubating the data and get more of an idea of the data's implications for this area of T205 scholarship.
I applaud your generosity in making this offering to the vintage card community
once again. You deserve much credit.
all the best,
barry
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2012, 12:18 AM
marcdelpercio marcdelpercio is offline
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Default

Thanks Joshua! As a longtime collector and admirer of this set, I greatly appreciate your research and insight. I believe that this is a very underappreciated set, and I always welcome any discussion or data which can add to the knowledge base and hopefully get more people interested in the T205s. I hope that someday we will have a definitive master checklist of all possible front back combinations. Data like this will certainly help to give a good foundation for future research.

Great work as always!
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:29 AM
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Joshua
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Patrick,
I have Meyers confirmed with the following backs...Cycle, Hassan 30, Hassan 649, Honest Long Cut, Piedmont 25, Piedmont 42, Polar Bear, Sovereign, and Sweet Cap Red.

Joshua
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:45 AM
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Joshua
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Leon,
There were two decent sized Hindu finds in the past 15 years. One from the south (Lousiana if I recall) and one on the southern atlantic coast (not sure where) that yielded a "large" find. Several were sold in private sales and a few found there way into Mastro and REA in the early 2000s if I recall. I have no other confirmed Hindu Hofers. There is an unconfirmed report of a Cy Young Hindu in a private collection (two people have told me this but they could not agree on WHOSE collection). The Young would fit the Hindu matrix though so it might be possible.

Joshua
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wite3 View Post
Leon,
There were two decent sized Hindu finds in the past 15 years. One from the south (Lousiana if I recall) and one on the southern atlantic coast (not sure where) that yielded a "large" find. Several were sold in private sales and a few found there way into Mastro and REA in the early 2000s if I recall. I have no other confirmed Hindu Hofers. There is an unconfirmed report of a Cy Young Hindu in a private collection (two people have told me this but they could not agree on WHOSE collection). The Young would fit the Hindu matrix though so it might be possible.

Joshua
I thought you just forgot about my question Joshua. Thanks for answering. As of right now I will continue to feel there are no other confirmed Hindu HOF'ers. I am confident that will probably change in the future. Still love the small group I acquired to end up with the Big Train. I also have never wavered on feeling the Gold Borders are some of the very best looking cards in the hobby.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:30 AM
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Joshua
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Leon,
Did not forget...just had to check my notes on the hindus.

BTW, I have no doubt that the hindu numbers will rise. They went through at least three printings of the hindu sheet as I have seen 3 distinct Ames with Hindu backs. I have never seen two of the same drum card though...so it may have only had one printing making them one of a kind cards, for now. I doubt that they only ran one sheet of Drum and three of hindu. There were probably more but you just do not know.

Joshua

PS I emptied a slew of new messages so whoevers bounced...feel free to resend or drop me an email.

Last edited by Wite3; 10-21-2012 at 10:35 AM.
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