I was the victim of shill bidding on ebay!

[bh3443]

After reading many threads here about this subject and the subjects of auctions, it finally happened to me!
So, now what should I do? Buy the 2 cards and move on? Report this to ebay? Don't buy the cards?
The total is about 25$, but man, what a bad taste this scam left in me!
I love ebay, but I'm not happy.
I saw 2 cards I liked and entered my max bids. With less than 30 minutes in the auctions, the same bidder kept upping the bid until I get notices he outbid me. Seconds later, I get two letters from Ebay saying I'm still the high bidder because this buyer retracted both bids! After driving me towards my max, he then says he bid the wrong amount!
Now, according to this bidder and sellers history, it happens a lot! Same two guys. The buyer has a feedback of 1, yet has 27 bids and 15 retractions!

So, my dear friends on Net 54, what do you recommend I do?
Thanks for your help.
Bill Hedin

[drc]

Give him negative feedback saying that he shills.

[glchen]

I thought you could not retract bids on the last day of the auction. If it were me, I would not pay.

Originally Posted by drc

Give him negative feedback saying that he shills.

+1

[Tcards-Please]

Bill,

Sorry this happened to you. I would report it to ebay, not pay and leave him a negative. Can you give the seller's id so that I can can put him on my block list?

r/
Frank

[bh3443]

Thank you, Gentlemen, for your comments and advise.
I thought I'd add that once I looked into this, it was easy to follow the trail of the relationship of the fake bidder and seller.
I agree, and even though I want the cards, I won't buy them because I don't want any cards in my collection I'm making for our grand-children to have a stench about them!
So, I won't be buying them and I'll leave factual feedback about the shill.
I'll stick to the nice guys on ebay and here that I know and have dealt with.
Have a great Sunday, all!
Your Friend,
Bill Hedin

[bh3443]

Well, instead of adjusting the 3.50 for each of the 2 cards, the guy gives me free shipping after I questioned the shill!
This is crazy....lol.....

[Jay Wolt]

Bill that stinks!
Who is the seller?
And you may want to use a sniping service, this way no one can bid up to your max bid, since there wouldn't be time to do so.
My snipes are set to go off w/ 2 seconds remaining in the auction.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by glchen

I thought you could not retract bids on the last day of the auction. If it were me, I would not pay.

Gary, I thought the rule currently was one could not retract w/in the last 4 hours aof the auction as I looked this up a few weeks ago...but alas, the rule has changed and a bid can now be retracted within the last seconds if the bidders chooses.
"If you meet any of the above conditions, consult the following table to determine if you meet the time restrictions for retracting the bid.

Time restrictions for retracting a bid

Listing ends in more than 12 hours
Yes

When you retract the bid, we remove all bids you placed on the item. If you are correcting a bidding error, you must bid again.

Listing ends in less than 12 hours
Yes, but only if you retract the bid within one hour of placing it
When you retract the bid, we remove only your most recent bid. Bids you placed prior to the last 12 hours of the listing are not removed."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-retract.html#cond

Nothing like continually changing policies until they fit an agenda. Why wouldn'y every dishanest seller do this? This is one stupid rule!

Steven Suckow

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's a lousy rule but there is an easy answer -- snipe.

[BlueDevil89]

If you believe that you have been a victim of shill bidding, you should report the incident to eBay. An eBay representative will likely contact you to understand why you think the seller was involved in shill bidding during the auction. They will then evaluate your case. If eBay agrees that there is evidence of shill bidding, they will offer you the option of either completing the transaction (if you wish to do so) or not paying for the card(s). You will not be penalized if you opt to not pay for the transaction.

Due to privacy reasons, eBay won't tell you what happens to the seller next. However, if you see the seller's account suspended within the next 24 hours, you'll have your answer. Also, eBay cooperates with authorities and turns over evidence of such cases to the proper jurisdiction when appropriate, as the practice is a crime.

In order to protect the eBay community and fellow collectors, it is important to report instances of shill bidding, to weed out those engaging in this practice.

[jimross]

I was a "victim" one time from a big auction house too since that was my first time bidding in their auction and didn't know they were allow to bid up their own auction. I got no where to complain or leave any neg feedback.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jimross

I was a "victim" one time from a big auction house too since that was my first time bidding in their auction and didn't know they were allow to bid up their own auction. I got no where to complain or leave any neg feedback.

If the AH rules stated they could bid in their auction you had fair notice of the potential for a house bid and I don't think you have anything to complain about. Shilling on Ebay is against Ebay rules. It is the difference between having your car repo'd and having it stolen. Same outcome, but one is legit.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Who is the seller?

Yes. Let the rest of us know Bill, please.

[Rob D.]

Bill,

I am sorry this happened to you. Perhaps you could talk with the folks on Net54 who think that as long as they don't pay more than their maximum bid, all is well. Maybe they will explain why you shouldn't feel badly about this transaction.

Best of luck.

[bh3443]

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 167
Items bid on: 39
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 92%
Bid retractions: 15
Bid retractions (6 months): 15
Here's the shill guy. 15 retractions!!!!!!! 92% with this seller?
The seller is, geeze, a member here, I think.........
Man, this is getting depressing!
Well, I'll stick to buying from my pal's like Jay at Quality and the rest of the guys here and ebay.
Seriously, what do you make of the info above?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Gary, I thought the rule currently was one could not retract w/in the last 4 hours aof the auction as I looked this up a few weeks ago...but alas, the rule has changed and a bid can now be retracted within the last seconds if the bidders chooses.
"If you meet any of the above conditions, consult the following table to determine if you meet the time restrictions for retracting the bid.

Time restrictions for retracting a bid

Listing ends in more than 12 hours
Yes

When you retract the bid, we remove all bids you placed on the item. If you are correcting a bidding error, you must bid again.

Listing ends in less than 12 hours
Yes, but only if you retract the bid within one hour of placing it
When you retract the bid, we remove only your most recent bid. Bids you placed prior to the last 12 hours of the listing are not removed."

http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-retract.html#cond

Nothing like continually changing policies until they fit an agenda. Why wouldn'y every dishanest seller do this? This is one stupid rule!

Steven Suckow

Ridiculous!

Ebay needs to clamp down on habitual retracting.

Only reasons for it, is to shill an auction or interfere with an auction.

Instead they open the Pandora's box. God forbid we put any kind of restriction on "BIDDING" activities, no matter how nonsensical it is.

[bh3443]

Thanks for everyone's kind words and input. I'm a big boy and will get over it.
For some reason, I'm surprised at how boldly this was done!
IIt just leaves a creepy feeling!

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bh3443

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 167
Items bid on: 39
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 92%
Bid retractions: 15
Bid retractions (6 months): 15
Here's the shill guy. 15 retractions!!!!!!! 92% with this seller?
The seller is, geeze, a member here, I think.........
Man, this is getting depressing!
Well, I'll stick to buying from my pal's like Jay at Quality and the rest of the guys here and ebay.
Seriously, what do you make of the info above?

Some people throw the word "shilling" around in cases where it doesn't fit at all.

I think you have about as strong a case as I've seen, Bill.

It's always possible the shiller was interfering with the sellers auctions as a goof (a rising trend on ebay), but if he was doing it that many times, the seller should have caught on and blocked him long ago.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Bill,

I am sorry this happened to you. Perhaps you could talk with the folks on Net54 who think that as long as they don't pay more than their maximum bid, all is well. Maybe they will explain why you shouldn't feel badly about this transaction.

Best of luck.

+1. if you sweat about small issues like shilling you won't enjoy the hobby as much.

[jimross]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

If the AH rules stated they could bid in their auction you had fair notice of the potential for a house bid and I don't think you have anything to complain about. Shilling on Ebay is against Ebay rules. It is the difference between having your car repo'd and having it stolen. Same outcome, but one is legit.

Yup, I know. That's why I still paid in full and only treat that as my "lesson learnt".

[BlueDevil89]

Originally Posted by bh3443

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 167
Items bid on: 39
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 92%
Bid retractions: 15
Bid retractions (6 months): 15
Here's the shill guy. 15 retractions!!!!!!! 92% with this seller?
The seller is, geeze, a member here, I think.........
Man, this is getting depressing!
Well, I'll stick to buying from my pal's like Jay at Quality and the rest of the guys here and ebay.
Seriously, what do you make of the info above?

Bill ---With the information above, your case with eBay is a lock. If you contact eBay to complain, not only will they cancel your transaction at your request, but they will also suspend the account of this seller. It will be an open and shut matter.

Do the community a favor and report the incident to eBay so other collectors don't get burned by this seller in the future.

[Tcards-Please]

The (alleged) shill bidder has done a fantastic job of raising the prices of ALL the seller's cards that ended within the past 24hrs and the seller seems to be getting the max amount from legitimate, unsuspecting buyers.

I certainly wouldn't be bidding on any of the seller's items.

added: the "alleged" shill bidder also bids on other items from this seller like: ladies golf clubs and men's wristwatch.

r/
Frank

[CW]

So is the seller's name "geeze" , or has that information not been shared yet for some reason??? Who is the seller?

[Jantz]

Bill

Sorry to hear this happened to you.

The dollar amount shouldn't matter.

Report the seller.

If it were me, I would also put their alter-bidding account name in the negative feedback reply that I left for them on Ebay.

Hope this ends well for you.


Jantz

[Big Ben]

Originally Posted by bh3443

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 167
Items bid on: 39
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 92%
Bid retractions: 15
Bid retractions (6 months): 15
Here's the shill guy. 15 retractions!!!!!!! 92% with this seller?
The seller is, geeze, a member here, I think.........
Man, this is getting depressing!
Well, I'll stick to buying from my pal's like Jay at Quality and the rest of the guys here and ebay.
Seriously, what do you make of the info above?

Crikey, that has to be one of the more blatant case of shill bidding that I have seen in a while. Report the seller to Ebay and snipe your purchases in the future!

[jbbama]

I see it all the time, mainly with higher dollar cards with many bids/bidders ...ebay could care less. They just want their fees.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by CW

So is the seller's name "geeze" , or has that information not been shared yet for some reason??? Who is the seller?

+1, tell us who the seller is!

[buymycards]

The new rules also won't allow you to leave negative feedback until 7 days after the auction closes. This policy allows time for you and the seller to work it out.

Another great policy by ebay. By the 7th day the seller can file a NPB against you and you won't be able to leave a negative.

Rick

Originally Posted by CW

So is the seller's name "geeze" , or has that information not been shared yet for some reason??? Who is the seller?

+2. At this point I could care less anymore. Simply due to the fact that the sellers name/eBay id has not been given to protect the rest of us. I'm sorry you got shilled but protecting the sellers id is the same as saying its ok IMO. Bill we all think very highly of you and respect you greatly. If this guy is a board member we definitely have the right to know. Man the pitchforks and torches boys!!!!! Lmao. Always wanted to say that. Lol

[egbeachley]

The underbidder is similar to the profile of verklempt123

[bh3443]

Well, it's over and the transactions are cancelled.
Check out seller
1098shawn

This left a nasty feeling with me, and from now on, SCREW AUCTIONS!
It's buy it now on ebay or the BST here! I'm too old for these games.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Regards,
Bill

PS: This really happened, right? It's not my medicine making me paranoid, lol!

[ethicsprof]

glad to hear that it's over.
i do appreciate your forewarning the rest of us.

And i do hope you are doing well!
all the best,
barry

[steve B]

I've had a couple times where what looked like shilling turned out to not be shilling at all.

I don't think this is one of those. I was on the fence because his bidding fit a pattern that seemed more like inexperience or gaming the syatem by using retractions to find the current high bidders maximum. Lots of bids on the ungraded cards, fewer on the graded, and more on certain years. That seemed more like a collector unfamiliar with bidding.

Then I saw the bidding on the watch. Same bid up then retract. That ckinched it for me. If he was just a collector new at bidding he'd have stuck to the cards.

Steve B

[Deertick]

I'm curious. Why would you give a seller who shilled you positive feedback?

[CW]

Thanks for the info, Bill.

For that one bad experience with auctions, you might also have 10 great purchases that go without a hitch. As mentioned already, you might try a snipe service like http://www.gavelsnipe.com

[HRBAKER]

Bill, I am glad you got satisfaction here.
The truth is that we are all (probably) regular victims of shill bidding on ebay. Most are not quite as obvious as this seems to be.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by CW

Thanks for the info, Bill.

For that one bad experience with auctions, you might also have 10 great purchases that go without a hitch. As mentioned already, you might try a snipe service like http://www.gavelsnipe.com

+1 Bill, get Gavelsnipe and don't give up on auctions yet!

[atx840]

Won a card tonight from Probstein and noticed this bidder. Not overly worried on the final price as I'm okay with the result, just not sure what to think of this one.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated

Bidder Information
Bidder: s***s( 272)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: T206 Eddie Ed Phelps St Louis Sovereign 350 BVG 5 EX
Bids on this item: 5

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1337
Items bid on: 600
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 93%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 40

[HRBAKER]

Appears to be a fairly loyal customer with a penchant for bid retractions.

[atx840]

Was thinking maybe a fan as he tends to have great cards. Thanks!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by atx840

Was thinking maybe a fan as he tends to have great cards. Thanks!

40 bid retractions gives me a lot of pause. Ask yourself how many you have ever retracted?

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Leon

40 bid retractions gives me a lot of pause. Ask yourself how many you have ever retracted?

Yep, I forgot to use the sarcasm font. In 13 years on ebay I can't remember a single bid retraction.

[atx840]

Never have either, still suspicious but appreciate the input.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Yep, I forgot to use the sarcasm font. In 13 years on ebay I can't remember a single bid retraction.

Me too. Been there, I think 13 1/2 yrs, and can't remember one though I could be forgetting. This seems to be a reoccurring problem with the large ebay sellers. Same thing happened to Wonka the other night. I hooked him up with that large ebay sellers owner so they could chat about it. That bidder had something like 22 retractions in the last month and seemed to be running John up. Maybe they were safety bids that were no longer needed?

[jbbama]

This is becoming an all to common occurrence on Ebay, i questioned a seller recently, i was confronted with threats of legal action.

[calvindog]

What's the problem? 93% of the bidder's business is with this seller? And 40 bid retractions in the past 6 months? Let me guess: the seller gets really high prices for his cards too.

Gee, that's a head scratcher. Let me go ask Ray Charles. Yup, he said he could see the problem with this seller too.

[Matthew H]

You guys are being unfair, how do you know these weren't "safety bids" by a consignor?

[Peter_Spaeth]

if you place a snipe with 5 seconds to go, it's going to be a tad hard for someone to run you up, top you, and retract.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

You guys are being unfair, how do you know these weren't "safety bids" by a consignor?

No shi*. That is what we are talking about. It is possibly the consignor or a friend/associate of a consignor. And the fact that, it seems, some sellers overlook these kinds of shenanigans is what is alarming, or actually, that they happen at all. I am not saying it's the sellers fault to start with. No one can control bids, for the most part. (well, sort of)