American Beautys on ebay

[tonyo]

Was anyone else watching all those t206 American Beautys that just ended 3 days early?

I probablly wouldn't have won any, but am just curious how that can happen in ebay-land? I don't sell much, but I didn't think you could end an item early if it has bids

I was watching 15 of them. They all had bids, but they all were ended early because "the item was sold" Here is one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110735527594...84.m1438.l2649


Were they reprints and someone blew the whistle?

[Anthony S.]

They were real. Bummed me out when I started getting the "Sorry you didn't win..." emails from Ebay.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by tonyo

I didn't think you could end an item early if it has bids

Yup, the seller can end the auction early at any time - even minutes before the item is scheduled to end.

That listing was hard on my eyes.

[atx840]

I called a seller who had 50 T206s & 50 T205s listed individually and bought the whole lot even though others had bid on them. Sort of a low way to go but if the buyer had the funds and the deal was right all the more to them. One mass sale is a lot easier to manage then 15.

On a side not I had snipes on a few of those cards : )

[A2000]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yup, the seller can end the auction early at any time - even minutes before the item is scheduled to end.

I believe a few years ago, eBay made it so you could NOT end an auction if there was less than 12 hours remaining.

You would think an eBay seller with more than 26,000 feedback would know better than to end an auction early. IMO, ending an auction early for a private offer = leaving money on the table.

[steve B]

They've got to stop allowing this. And stop allowing the cheats like ATX840 to even make offers off ebay. It hurts the seller, it hurts Ebay, and the rest of us that follow the rules. It also hurts other sellers. Plus offering something for bid is a binding contract acording to Ebay.

Most of us don't have a huge hobby budget. And when something like those ABs comes up we have to not bid on other stuff, or bid less on some others.

I was watching them too, And held off from bidding on about 10-15 other things since they were listed. Not all cards, but here are the card sellers who probably lost a few dollars because of their cheating.
buythatcard
jasonb9206
1950 browns
runlike
tntriley1
luckyjguy
Jerryjersey
I'm not sure how many of those other items I'd have won or been the underbidder on, but I didn't bid on 6 of them, and bid far less on one.

Steve Birmingham

[Leon]

Originally Posted by atx840

I called a seller who had 50 T206s & 50 T205s listed individually and bought the whole lot even though others had bid on them.

Yeap, I bet you were pretty happy about that.

[Matthew H]

If I see a card I want up for auction on eBay these days, I always ask if there is a BIN price for the card. Not because I want to buy it that way, but because there have been so many times that a card I want disappears. I am always relieved when I get a message back saying no.

[3-2-count]

Just my opinion, but if you see something you really need on the Bay it would be in your best interest to email the seller and ask if they end auctions early just so you don't get burned. I sure do. If they answer with a definitive "NO" you have nothing to worry about. If you receive any other reply other than that you'd better be willing to play the same game or risk losing the opportunity. My two cents!!

[aquarius31]

I was tempted not to respond to this thread but the previous comments have me going now. Even if you win through a BIN on ebay you're not assured that you win. Here's a wonderful story to share with all of you.

1) I used a BIN on a lot of 2 T206's which had a very good price
(purchased within 2 minutes of listing being posted)
2) Ask seller if he will combine shipping and receive a response that there was an error and cards shouldn't have been listed
3) Send a reply to seller trying to get more details but he's not clear with me so I tell him if it not's a mistake or if he plans to repost to let me know (thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt as an honest mistake)
4) See a listing on B/S/T today for those exact same cards which I purchased through BIN but were "listed in error"
5) Find out that a side deal off of EBay was done for the cards at a higher price
6) Frustrated but agree with off-Ebay buyer on 1 of the cards on the amount that was paid off ebay (higher than the original BIN option for both cards)
7) The second card sold to another buyer before I could purchase that one

Due to "non-bidding" buyers making side deals with sellers on ebay after auction close and those sellers agreeing to those side deals people get screwed. What should have been an easy BIN transaction become one where I ended up negotiating with the "new" buyer for 1 card and losing out on the other card not to mention that the price was higher since the seller was able to obtain more from the off ebay deal.

I think I'm going to go onto ebay now and try to see if there are some recently closed low BINs where I can persuade the seller to sell it to me instead for a slightly higher price.

[teetwoohsix]

George, that sucks.

What a crappy business model. Unethical.

Sincerely, Clayton

[JohnP0621]

I was also watching some of those AB cards and was pissed when the seller took them off. Ebay should not allow the seller to remove the cards after a bid has been placed. Is the bidder allowed to pull back his bid if he changes his mind?//

[steve B]

There has to be some way to cancel an auction since there are legitimate reasons to cancel. Like if the item isn't real, or becomes damaged while the auction is open.

Unfortunately even limiting things to that sort of reason won't work as the people who feel it's ok to offer or accept offers for sales outside Ebay will simply make their deals and claim he item was fake or damaged.

I may have been a bit harsh in how I put it, but I've had a lousy week so far and this hasn't made it any better.

And for all of you who think it's ok, go ahead and have that opinion.

But the next time you're bitching about shills or cards sold with bad scans and glowing terms, or trimmed Johnson T206s where the trimming is buried in the description, or any of the "grandpas attic" reprints....... Just remember you're no better than those sellers.

Steve Birmingham

[Leon]

Originally Posted by steve B

There has to be some way to cancel an auction since there are legitimate reasons to cancel. Like if the item isn't real, or becomes damaged while the auction is open.

Unfortunately even limiting things to that sort of reason won't work as the people who feel it's ok to offer or accept offers for sales outside Ebay will simply make their deals and claim he item was fake or damaged.

I may have been a bit harsh in how I put it, but I've had a lousy week so far and this hasn't made it any better.

And for all of you who think it's ok, go ahead and have that opinion.

But the next time you're bitching about shills or cards sold with bad scans and glowing terms, or trimmed Johnson T206s where the trimming is buried in the description, or any of the "grandpas attic" reprints....... Just remember you're no better than those sellers.

Steve Birmingham

Steve
I think I can safely say the overwhelming majority of the board has your back on your thoughts. I got a PM from Chris (ATX840 above) last night. My guess is that he has had some changing of heart in that situation. Maybe our thoughts do matter.

And also, I do agree with Tony above too. That being said I just will never make an offer on a card that already has a bid on it. If there are no bids I will ask about a BIN, but otherwise, I just won't do it. Someone else can and they can be the "better" collector for it, if that is how they feel. regards

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by Leon

Steve
If there are no bids I will ask about a BIN, but otherwise, I just won't do it.

Leon, since you opened up that can of worms......that sure is a slippery slope you are on. What happens in the scenario where no bids are placed on an eBay auction, you asked for a BIN, seller responds a few hours later with a fantastic BIN, you accept but in the interim someone places a .99 cents bid???

What about the "watchers???" No righteousness for them??? I don't mean to take shots at you Leon, since heaven knows I'm no eBay saint. Over the years, I've certainly emailed my share of sellers asking for a "buy-it-now" option. My point is more directed to the Net54 masses, "lets not cast the first stone......."

Lovely Day...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by iggyman

Leon, since you opened up that can of worms......that sure is a slippery slope you are on. What happens in the scenario where no bids are placed on an eBay auction, you asked for a BIN, seller responds a few hours later with a fantastic BIN, you accept but in the interim someone places a .99 cents bid???

What about the "watchers???" No righteousness for them??? I don't mean to take shots at you Leon, since heaven knows I'm no eBay saint. Over the years, I've certainly emailed my share of sellers asking for a "buy-it-now" option. My point is more directed to the Net54 masses, "lets not cast the first stone......."

Lovely Day...

Iggy, yeap, with 3000 members I knew there would be this response. If a bid has been placed then I would not expect the buyer to cancel it nor would I want them to (that scenario has happened to me several times and I have always told the seller to just forget about the offer). If there are watchers, my opinion, tough crap. Put a bid in. It happens to all of us...deal with it. Nothing personal at all....just sayin', no slippery slope for my opinion. No stones cast here........take care

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by steve B

Plus offering something for bid is a binding contract acording to Ebay.

only if it ends up being the winning bid

[vintagetoppsguy]

Some of y’all aren’t understanding that for a lot of dealers, eBay is just another way to advertise – no different than their personal website, a brick and mortar store, message board B/S/T, etc. In other words, they may have the same card listed on multiple sites. Their goal is to sell the card, they don’t care how/where it sells. A lot of dealers will list a card for sale on eBay, but at the same time it also resides in their showcase for sale. If someone comes into their store and purchases the card, they remove the card from eBay. I’ve also been at shows and witnessed the same thing many, many times where I’ve bought a card from a dealer, then watched the dealer immediately remove the listing from eBay. I’m not defending the seller here, but it is what it is. Besides, no one really knows why they cards were removed from eBay in the first place. Everybody is just assuming the seller ended the auction early for an off-line offer. What if the cards were lost or stolen and he HAD to remove the listings?

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Everybody is just assuming the seller ended the auction early for an off-line offer. What if the cards were lost or stolen and he HAD to remove the listings?

True no one really knows the real reason except the seller and the buyer (if applicable), but the ebay listing actually says "This listing was ended by the seller because the item was sold."

Other listings ended early say "item is no longer available" or something to that effect.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

In other words, they may have the same card listed on multiple sites.

I personally don't see anything wrong with that, as long as they don't end a listing that has been bid upon.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by tonyo

I personally don't see anything wrong with that, as long as they don't end a listing that has been bid upon.

Things happen in life. Cards get lost, stolen or even catch fire:

http://www.ohio.com/news/fire-hits-s...store-1.204249

Bids or not, how is the seller supposed to complete the transaction if he no longer possesses the card?

[t206blogcom]

It appears the seller also ended several other high end raw t206 cards (I was watching them!)... Disappointed I didn't get the chance to win any of these or the AB's, but life goes on. More $ to buy other cards...

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Things happen in life. Cards get lost, stolen or even catch fire:

http://www.ohio.com/news/fire-hits-s...store-1.204249

Bids or not, how is the seller supposed to complete the transaction if he no longer possesses the card?

Well I agree with you there, that's life....... I suppose I should have qualified: I don't see anything wrong with listing in multiple places, as long as they don't end a listing that already has bids, just because they sell the card in another outlet.

Which apparently is the case in this instance since the ebay listing actually says "This listing was ended by the seller because the item was sold."




I suppose it is possible that the seller ended the listing early and sold to the high bidder in every case, which I think would be ok as well.....

[Bigb13]

Besides the AB's atx840 got the guy to sell him the others. Rob

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

What Chris did sucks but that is what is happening and if you want something bad enough you are going to have to do the same thing. He obviously is not the only one that does this and it is probably safe to say that some that have responded to this thread have done the same but just don't admit it, which was Chris's mistake. I keep an eye on the Cycle 460s and drop bids on them about half never reach the end of the auction. It is the way it is and if you want a card you are going to have to try the same tactics.

Lee

[atx840]

I did not get the ABs, I was going to bid like everyone else.

I live in western Canada, T206s did not migrate up here so I rely on eBay and the BST. I owned 15 T cards at the time and only 2 purchases through eBay.

I saw several cards offered by a pawn shop, no bids on 90% but he did not ship to Canada. I called and asked if I could buy a few as a lot and they said all or nothing. I made a very low offer (one card is worth 100+ times as much, not % but multiples) and they took it, minus a few that had bids already which was fine (T205 Mathewson and a few HOFs).

The guy ended up sending me way more cards than I wanted, all but the Mathewson, even 47 T205s which i don't collect. I mailed them back upon their request (long story), as well as 1/4 the T206s. I had no idea you could end an eBay auction if someone already bid on it.

One of my first posts was discussing this lot. I have learned a lot since then, most importantly that it's just cardboard.

[hunterdutchess]

My 2 cents: I use to try and buy card threw paypal until I got burned. IT IS A BIG RISK IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THE SELLER! Paypal does not cover what is in the box they will only protect you if nothing is shipped from the transaction. So the seller can send you any cards he pleases and if there is tracking to prove it then he is covered.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Some of y’all aren’t understanding that for a lot of dealers, eBay is just another way to advertise – no different than their personal website, a brick and mortar store, message board B/S/T, etc. In other words, they may have the same card listed on multiple sites.

I think there is a distinction between listing a card for "sale" on multiple sites, and listing a card for "auction" multiple times. It's nice to be able to list a sale item in multiple forums and as long as you are diligent enough to manage that (or utilize software to do it for you); it's optimal for the seller and a fair process to buyers. Once a card is put up for auction, I don't think it should be listed anywhere else, however.

[Matthew H]

[steve B]

I didn't think Chris was the one who'd snagged the ABs. He was just the first to say buying off ebay was ok while I was in a cranky mood.

But...... All the ABs had bids. So that theory is out.

As far as it not being against the rules till the auction is over
From http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...practices.html
You're not allowed to:

"List an item that may be out of stock at the time of purchase.

List an item that you're simultaneously selling outside of eBay.

Offer an item that may not be what's delivered to the buyer."


And that policy is part of the user agrement. So, NO you can't end to sell off ebay. You can end to sell to the high bidder at the bid price but that's one of the choices under the reason for ending early.
And NO, you can't use ebay as a classified ad.
And NO, you can't list an item that's for sale somewhere else.

It's quite clear. If anyone didn't read the used agreement they agreed to perhaps they should.

And if it wasn't just cardboard none of the lame excuses about not buying anything without cheating would be accepted. None of you accept it from McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, .............That was ok too, I mean they wouldn't win any games if they weren't juiced right? Or if you're waiting for an appointment it would be ok to tell the receptionist you'd give an extra hundred to go to the head of the line? Really, otherwise you'd have to wait for those undeserving other people who were also waiting.

I'm pretty fed up with the sort of attitude I'm seeing. I thought the people here were a better sort than this. After listening to the power company lie for two days I really wanted to spend some time with a community of people who aren't ..... Hell, I can't even describe my mood right now without getting into bruce land.

Steve B

[autograf]

I go with the Leon theory..........If there's a bid, I won't make an offer. I make offers from time to time but I'd say about 20% are accepted and 80% of the time, I'm told that the seller wishes to let the auction play out. I don't usually lowball anyone. I try to make a fair offer (maybe not the BEST) and let the chips fall where they may. I've gotten a few decent items that way. If you don't think tons of other people are doing it, you're not being realistic..........

[steve B]

Try putting you name out her Mr Hollywood. Or go cheat with some underage bimbo from the beach.

Originally Posted by Matthew H

[pgellis]

I really don't understand why a seller would end an auction early for an offer. I know that some buyers try to bully sellers into ending their auctions early. I have heard that some have said things like: "If you don't sell to me right now for $X.XX, then I guarantee I won't continue to bid on your auction and you will lose money on it."

Come on really? If a seller is getting bids and offers outside of eBay, then why don't they realize that they have a desirable item and let the auction run its course?

This hasn't happened to me with pre-war cards (yet), but it has happened a few times with Leather Football Helmets, which I also collect. One helmet that I was really interested in last fall ended early. I contacted the seller and told him that I was really interested. I didn't ask him to end the auction early, rather I asked him to let it go the distance and that I guaranteed him that I would be the high bidder and he agreed. A day later he ended the auction for another buyer for about $300 - $500 less than I told him that I guaranteed him. I had to scratch my head.

It happened again last week with a leather football helmet. Someone got to the seller and had him end the auction early on the first day of the listing.

Don't sellers get it? Wouldn't an auction setting, where there is interest, guarantee the seller the most money 99 times out of 100? I don't know how many times and how many hundreds of dollars I have seen left on the table when sellers end auctions early.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by steve B

Try putting you name out her Mr Hollywood. Or go cheat with some underage bimbo from the beach.

I would have to agree....if you are going to rattle someone's cage you need to have your full name by your post. Personally, my name is by every post. And if you say, but I don't want my name to end up in the dreaded Google searches then just cover up/change the pattern of your name, such as .... Leon Luc*key....or Bill Smit$

[steve B]

Apologies to all (Except Matt) He did push me over the edge into bruceland and I shouldn't have let that happen.

Steve Birmingham

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by steve B

So, NO you can't end to sell off ebay. You can end to sell to the high bidder at the bid price but that's one of the choices under the reason for ending early.
And NO, you can't use ebay as a classified ad.
And NO, you can't list an item that's for sale somewhere else.

Steve, you’re wrong here and let me explain why. I used to own a company called Dealer Advertising Solutions, LLC in Houston, TX. We listed used cars (and sometimes new ones too) on eBay on behalf of dealerships. We created the listings (descriptions, digital photos, etc) and scheduled/launched the listings, but the dealership (usually the internet manager) was responsible for working their own leads – emails, phone calls, etc. Anybody looking at the car on eBay couldn’t tell that the listing was created by a third party. We got paid for our work whether the car sold or not. Anyway, when a dealership listed a car on eBay, do you think they removed the car from their lot? Certainly not. The car stayed on their lot and was also available to retail customers. Meanwhile that same car was also available on other websites such as Yahoo.com, cars.com, autotrader.com, the dealership’s own website and probably a dozen other websites. Again, the idea is to sell the car and they will advertise it on as many websites as possible...yes, including eBay. If the car sold before the eBay auction was over, the dealership would remove the listing from eBay. Very rarely did a car actually sell on eBay because most of the time a serious buyer would inquire about the car and the buyer and the dealership were able to work a deal before the auction ended.

Now, I know we're talking about cars and not cards, but the same principle applies. The bottom line is that eBay allows it and they absolutely have to. I know they discourage it and they don’t offer buyer or seller protection for off-line purchases, but it is not against eBay’s rules to end an item early (bids or not) to sell to another buyer. In fact, as has already been pointed out, one of eBay’s reasons for ending in item early is, “This listing was ended by the seller because the item was sold.”

I understand it's frustrating to bid on something thinking you have a shot to win it only to have the auction ended early by the seller. I've had it happen to me many times too. But, everybody is blaming the seller for something eBay allows to go on.

That said, I do have a problem with this case in particular because the seller's own description states, "THESE ARE TRUE AND REAL AUCTIONS BECAUSE THE E-BAY COMMUNITY DETERMINES THE SELLING PRICE."

[Vol]

Originally Posted by steve B

Try putting you name out her Mr Hollywood. Or go cheat with some underage bimbo from the beach.

It is okay to laugh a little. Y so serious?

[glchen]

I've been on both sides of this, and frankly I think it's all fair game. The seller should have complete freedom to end the auction early if he chooses. There is a reason why sellers do this, and that is that the offline offer is higher than the starting price (or current price) of the auction, and the seller believes that the price is fair or better than fair. I had this happen to me recently where a buyer messaged me with an offer that was at least 10X the current auction price of the card. The seller wanted the card badly, and didn't want to wait around on the chance that he might get outbid. I frankly thought this offer was at least twice what the card was likely to end at, so I obviously agreed to the deal, and ended the auction early.

I hadn't known that it's ethical to provide offers to sellers if there are no bids and it's gentleman's code to not do so if there are no bids. A few months ago, I lost out on a Heading Home Babe Ruth card b/c the seller made an off ebay deal while the auction was going on. The auction had a high starting price, so basically I was only willing to go the starting price + one increment. Therefore, I put a snipe on the card, but I wasn't willing to put an early bid on the card b/c I didn't want to "show my hand" to other bidders. Again, I learned my lesson here, but I don't fault the seller or the buyer who made the deal. I learned that if I really want a card, I better make it known to the seller to not sell the card off-bay w/o at least consulting me and allow me to counter. This is only if I really, really want the card, b/c you never know if the seller would make a phantom buyer to get you to increase your offer.

Ebay is already doing things to try to prevent off-ebay deals, so be careful what you wish for. As part of the Fall seller rules, you're not supposed to put your email address or other web address in your ebay listing. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future, ebay says that messages on ebay are ebay property and that they reserve the right to scan the messages, and if they detect off-ebay negotiations going on, they can remove Top Rated Seller listing or suspend your account. Obviously, there would be an outcry if this happens, but this is ebay we're talking about. They're trying to make money, and they're doing all kinds of things to make more.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Leon

I would have to agree....if you are going to rattle someone's cage you need to have your full name by your post. Personally, my name is by every post. And if you say, but I don't want my name to end up in the dreaded Google searches then just cover up/change the pattern of your name, such as .... Leon Luc*key....or Bill Smit$

Matt Hall is my name... I know that wont help, it's a very common name.

As far as Steve and his name calling... A grown man was whining about baseball cards... I couldn't help myself. No apologies either.

[tonyo]

I began the process to end one of my current items early and came to this step:

Select a reason for ending your listing early. The reason will appear on the Closed Item page.

1. The item is no longer available for sale.
2. There was an error in the listing.
3. There was an error in the starting price or reserve amount.
4. The item was lost or broken.


No choice for "because the item was sold" ............... weird. Maybe that is a choice if the auction is ended early by selling to the highest bidder.

I guess if I really cared enough, I could write the seller and ask him!

[steve B]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Steve, you’re wrong here and let me explain why. I used to own a company called Dealer Advertising Solutions, LLC in Houston, TX. We listed used cars (and sometimes new ones too) on eBay on behalf of dealerships. We created the listings (descriptions, digital photos, etc) and scheduled/launched the listings, but the dealership (usually the internet manager) was responsible for working their own leads – emails, phone calls, etc. Anybody looking at the car on eBay couldn’t tell that the listing was created by a third party. We got paid for our work whether the car sold or not. Anyway, when a dealership listed a car on eBay, do you think they removed the car from their lot? Certainly not. The car stayed on their lot and was also available to retail customers. Meanwhile that same car was also available on other websites such as Yahoo.com, cars.com, autotrader.com, the dealership’s own website and probably a dozen other websites. Again, the idea is to sell the car and they will advertise it on as many websites as possible...yes, including eBay. If the car sold before the eBay auction was over, the dealership would remove the listing from eBay. Very rarely did a car actually sell on eBay because most of the time a serious buyer would inquire about the car and the buyer and the dealership were able to work a deal before the auction ended.

Now, I know we're talking about cars and not cards, but the same principle applies. The bottom line is that eBay allows it and they absolutely have to. I know they discourage it and they don’t offer buyer or seller protection for off-line purchases, but it is not against eBay’s rules to end an item early (bids or not) to sell to another buyer. In fact, as has already been pointed out, one of eBay’s reasons for ending in item early is, “This listing was ended by the seller because the item was sold.”

I understand it's frustrating to bid on something thinking you have a shot to win it only to have the auction ended early by the seller. I've had it happen to me many times too. But, everybody is blaming the seller for something eBay allows to go on.

That said, I do have a problem with this case in particular because the seller's own description states, "THESE ARE TRUE AND REAL AUCTIONS BECAUSE THE E-BAY COMMUNITY DETERMINES THE SELLING PRICE."

Ebay motors specifically allows it. The main site specifically does not.
The page I linked to is clear about their policies for the main site.

Steve B

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Matt Hall is my name... I know that wont help, it's a very common name.

As far as Steve and his name calling... A grown man was whining about baseball cards... I couldn't help myself. No apologies either.

And that's what you'll never get. It's not whining about cards.

It IS being pissed that apparently everyone else in society thinks that whatever sleazy thing gets them what they want is ok, or that the prime methods of customer service are appropriately lie and deny.

My comment was over the top, as was yours.

Steve Birmingham

[slidekellyslide]

I sell hundreds of items a month on ebay and I get emails constantly for BIN price or sale off ebay...last week I listed a fairly rare Orange AMX slot car..I immediately got 3 emails to end the auction early..one guy offered me $30..as the week wore on I got a question from a guy asking if the wheel wells had been cut...apparently this was common with Aurora T-jet slot cars...I took a closer look and it did appear that they were cut...I decided to end the auction because it had a lot of bids already and it would be a hassle to contact all the bidders and revise the auction...the guy who offered me $30 emailed me as soon as I ended it and called me every name in the book for ending it early! So apparently it's okay for him to ask me to end it early, but it's not okay for me to end it early...I was a bit confused there...I emailed him back and told him what happened and that I was relisting it with the correct info. Then I blocked him.

The car ended up selling for $71 earlier today...so not only did he try to get me to end it early, but he also lowballed me.

[Jaybird]

I think there are probably two schools to the off-ebay offer. One is that the buyer is trying to get a better deal by saying some BS about why they can't bid on the card and throws a low ball offer. The other is someone that is legitimately willing to pay Over market value for the card probably to prevent someone else from doing the same. In either case, I think it probably makes more sense to just let it go to auction if you are the seller.

I know in some cases, though, that I've had my snipe set for an item well over the price that it sold for at auction. So, if I had made an off-ebay offer for my snipe price, the seller would have made more money.

[spec]

There is a simple rule that I believe applies to this issue, and to most other conundrums (outing auctions and low-balling ignorant sellers, for instance) so frequently debated on this board. I learned it as The Golden Rule, and I believe it is Biblical, but other cultures and/or religions probably embrace this precept as well.
It states: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." It does not say: "Do unto others before they do unto you," which seems to be the justification of some for this tactic. To me, a preemptory offer endeavors to deny both the seller and other bidders the opportunity to determine a fair price for an item. One might, indeed, offer more than the item will bring at auction, but overpaying is not likely the intent.
Bob Richardson

[tbob]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Just my opinion, but if you see something you really need on the Bay it would be in your best interest to email the seller and ask if they end auctions early just so you don't get burned. I sure do. If they answer with a definitive "NO" you have nothing to worry about. If you receive any other reply other than that you'd better be willing to play the same game or risk losing the opportunity. My two cents!!

Absolutely, Tony! Agree 100%. I've learned that lesson the hard way. You HAVE to do that if there is a card you really want to bid on and try to win because if you don't find out from the seller that you are going to absolutely have the chance to bid, it will often times disappear.