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Old 07-18-2011, 11:39 PM
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Fred Fred is offline
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,539

Just my opinion...

If you start figuring out who the 5 tool players out then you gotta know what the 5 tools are.

The toughest part is the defense and the arm. We can pretty much only rely on stories from the past.

Offensive stats are a bit different, they are related to eras (dead ball/live ball) and can be more easily judged.

If a player led his league in SBs or HRs then you can deduce that the player had that/those tools. If the player was near the top in those categories (they may not have led the league but were close) then that (imo) applies towards deriving at the player having those offensive tools.

If a player only stole 12 bags (at the most) in a year and the league leaders were near that then you could say he had relative speed. If the league leaders were consistently at 30 then I wouldn't be giving him that tool. He could have been an exceptional player with great speed but he didn't really have that SB tool in his arsenal. To me, that player is a 4 tool player (if he truly posseses the tools).

Also, lets look at this realistically, if you want to give credit to a player being a 5 tool player then some people might consider Jose Canseco because he was a 40/40 player (first one) and they may just decide to throw the fielding tools at him because they didn't know any better. I still love that video of that ball bouncing off his head for a homerun! Jose was a tool... but not a 5 tool player.

Now that I've taken the fun out of this, carry on...
doh, doh, doh, doh....
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:10 AM
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familytoad familytoad is offline
Br1@n L1ndh0lm3
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Location: Ridgefield, WA
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Default 5 tools

Tris Speaker was mentioned earlier in the thread (Brian V) but no one really commented on him. He is the real deal.Despite the deadball era, his EXBH hits are sick! Later on, so are a few others 5-toolers like Mantle and Mays.

Seems like many of the threads are digging to find guys who may be close.
I think if you have to debate very long whether the player fits the category...well there's the answer...its NO

And Ichiro? Umm...if a 5 tool guy is expected to hit the ball out of the infield then he's out of the question.
I've heard many times over the years that he could hit 30 HRs a year if he wanted to. Geez, that's incredible baloney...why wouldn't he want to? Why the fascination with groundouts and infield singles?

Anyway, Charlie Gehringer had some awesome stats (especially in 1929 when he added 27 swipes to his 77 EXBH) but since he only averaged 13 HR and 13 SB for his career he's out too

Brian L
Ridgefield, WA

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Old 07-19-2011, 06:03 AM
howard38 howard38 is offline
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Plenty of good high average hitters could or could have hit a bunch more HRs but at the expense of their BA. Ichiro himself once said that he'd bat around .220 if he swung for the fences.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:42 AM
bcbgcbrcb bcbgcbrcb is offline
Phil Garry
Join Date: Apr 2009
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You can't overlook Vlad Guerrero during the first half of his career with Montreal. Larry Walker too......

Last edited by bcbgcbrcb; 07-19-2011 at 08:42 AM.
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